My property tax in New Jersey just went from $4000 to $10,000!!!!

[Kathi OD]

I really don't blame Corzine. He feels like an easy scapegoat because he's "there" and a highly visible figure to blame, but taxes have always been high here, continue to be high, and will be high until we all die.

Corzine rose through the ranks to become CEO of Goldman Sachs, which was, and is, unequivocally, one of the greatest companies in the land. The guy understands money, budgets and administration. He gets the problem. He's a blow-the-lights-out-smart guy. His Achilles' heel has always been politics.

I agree with earlier posters who say that he didn't understand the scale of the tax beast he faced upon election. At GS, if he had a bad problem, he could - in one day - fire the cause, restructure, forecast financial impact, rally the remaining troops and go home. He did this regularly. He has no such ability to do anything like that in state government.

In the State of New Jersey, there's no way to unload incompetence or ineptitude, most of which is union-protected (I am pro-union in many cases, but not when it totally impedes meritocracy or self-motivation). State salaries are so low that people who could earn more in the private sector choose to do so, leaving behind a lower average level of talent, requiring more state employees to do the same amount of work, and the effect snowballs. Lobbyists rule. Precedent rules. Nepotism rules. Egoism rules. Tiny towns with tiny schools and hugely expensive services rule. Duplicate services at the local, county and state level burn through our cash. Newark, Camden, and Abbott districts are literal cash vacuums. Values rule - we do things like preserve land and provide special education, because it's the right thing to do, even though it costs money - a lot of money. Lots of forces far more powerful than prudent fiscal discretion rule in the state of New Jersey.

So why does New Jersey have the highest population density in the US? Because despite all of this, it's still an amazingly attractive place to live! Beaches, mountains, NYC, Philly, AC, horse farms, Fortune 500, country, city, culture, history, and some of the best school districts in America. New Jersey is a microcosm of many of the most beautiful aspects of living in America. If that means that I pay more in taxes - OK. Living in NJ has also provided me access to high-wage jobs. It has one of the highest average per-capita incomes in the world. The GDP of NJ exceeds that of most of the world's nations. With the right inputs, you can self-make a fortune in NJ. It is clearly easier to do here than it is in a state with a less vibrant economy. The news is not all bad.

My $0.02.

 

[allison443]

So why does New Jersey have the highest population density in the US? Because despite all of this, it's still an amazingly attractive place to live! Beaches, mountains, NYC, Philly, AC, horse farms, Fortune 500, country, city, culture, history, and some of the best school districts in America. New Jersey is a microcosm of many of the most beautiful aspects of living in America. If that means that I pay more in taxes - OK. Living in NJ has also provided me access to high-wage jobs. It has one of the highest average per-capita incomes in the world. The GDP of NJ exceeds that of most of the world's nations. With the right inputs, you can self-make a fortune in NJ. It is clearly easier to do here than it is in a state with a less vibrant economy. The news is not all bad.

My $0.02.

Very well said! Thank you!

 

[SamRoc]

Spent the day yesterday with the lawyer and he called the County Tax Collectors office for us. We have a huge group of people here fighting this increase. My neighbors just went up to $12,000 and the dad just lost his job and the mom is a sahm. they have one in college and one in high school. Our home isnt really worth anything, its just that we're on the water on a lagoon, not even the bay. Ocean county got hit really hard this year. I can see an increase but this is ridiculous. Our lawyer filed papers for us as we just had reassessment done to show the town what our house exactly looks like. we have 3 bedrooms and 1 bath. Our property is 38x70 so its not like we have a huge piece of property but we are on the water. I just can't see such a huge jump. Our lawyer told us when its all said and done, and after the reassessment we should be at about $8000 an increase from $4000. We got our tax bill in the mail the other day, $2600 per quarter!!!
PS i love living here! I was born and raised in New Jersey and don't want to leave.

 

[Kies99]

So is this where the extra money in taxes is going???

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/23/new.jersey.arrests/index.html

 

[Kathi OD]

So is this where the extra money in taxes is going???

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/23/new.jersey.arrests/index.html

To pay for state and federally mandated programs that aren't being fully funded by the state and federal governments.

 

[Golf4food]

What makes you believe that raising property taxes will chase people away any more than raising income and sales taxes would.

Income tax is irrelevant in Florida since we don't have one.

At least other forms of taxes hit everyone, not just a specific portion of the population. I don't mind paying extra because I "own" a piece of land. But there does come a point where it is out of control. Services that are used by the entire community should be paid for at least in part by the entire community in my book. Hitting homeowners extra hard in comparison just to subsidize everyone else is in no way equitable or justified. I'd rather pay a 10% sales tax on everything and have some control over my spending than have a single mayor and 24 people on the city council - most of whom are quite wealthy, own businesses, have family money, or are otherwise not overly concerned with living paycheck to paycheck - decide they can just jack up the property tax rate whenever they want, drag homeowners over the coals, and hold our homes hostage if we can't or refuse to pay the extra increase. It's government theft at the point of an economic sword because the homeowners have no otions - except to move or have the city put a lein against their home.

If the people have to make cuts to survive in a recession so should the government. Instead most of them continue to spend at the same levels or higher and just want to raise taxes to make up the difference. Shame on them.

 

[mjkacmom]

Spent the day yesterday with the lawyer and he called the County Tax Collectors office for us. We have a huge group of people here fighting this increase. My neighbors just went up to $12,000 and the dad just lost his job and the mom is a sahm. they have one in college and one in high school. Our home isnt really worth anything, its just that we're on the water on a lagoon, not even the bay. Ocean county got hit really hard this year. I can see an increase but this is ridiculous. Our lawyer filed papers for us as we just had reassessment done to show the town what our house exactly looks like. we have 3 bedrooms and 1 bath. Our property is 38x70 so its not like we have a huge piece of property but we are on the water. I just can't see such a huge jump. Our lawyer told us when its all said and done, and after the reassessment we should be at about $8000 an increase from $4000. We got our tax bill in the mail the other day, $2600 per quarter!!!
PS i love living here! I was born and raised in New Jersey and don't want to leave.

In NJ, property is everything. When our town was reassessed, it was divided up into 8 sections, and your rate was based on where your property was located (3 mile town here). My house is in the 2nd highest rated area, so a bigger home in another area would be taxed less than my home. Location and property size are more important than the actual home. I think $4000 was the average increase when we were reassessed (my gs's went up an additional $10,000 a year) - maybe they're just working their way south.

 

[Piecey]

Ohmy. I cannot even imagine!! I'm so sorry.

Our property taxes are ~$400. We pay $190 something or another twice a year. It goes to the county. We don't have city "taxes" but we have a monthly fee ($25.18) for trash, police and fire.

 

[charlie,nj]

I guess I have to sell my house. Ocean county NJ is out of control. They must think all the middle class people living here can afford such a crazy tax hike! All the neighbors got together and hired a lawyer, but i really doubt this will help. At first we were got an increase from $4000 to $7200 but our tax bill came in the mail saying it was going to $10,000. I can see alot of for sale signs going up in the next few weeks, but i'm wondering who can afford these taxes.

Did you see that they just arrested this guy.....for extortion ?


Assemblyman Van Pelt (R-Ocean), 44, is also the mayor of Ocean Township, a post he has held since 1988.



.

 

[JoiseyMom]

Did you see that they just arrested this guy.....for extortion ?


Assemblyman Van Pelt (R-Ocean), 44, is also the mayor of Ocean Township, a post he has held since 1988.



.

30 arrested http://www.app.com/article/20090723...n+Ocean++Hoboken++Secaucus+taken+into+custody

What a lovely state we live in We have very corrupt politicians.

The reason for the high property taxes in NJ is the schools. Each town has their own district so we have lots of Administrative fees. The state wants to have the towns merge..but the towns don't want it. Where I live we have a regional HS district with about 7 towns. I wouldn't mind sharing with more towns in some way to lower all our property taxes.

 

[jillyb]

Sorry, our reported unemployment is 11%. Oh, and our lovely budget is close to being passed. Included is a 2% penalty for those who owe state withholding taxes.

Yeah...I'm part of the 11%.

 

[bicker]

Income tax is irrelevant in Florida since we don't have one.

So adding an income tax... wouldn't that chase people out of Florida as readily as increasing the property tax? My point was that money is money. The only difference between increasing (putting in place a new) income tax, sales tax and property tax, to pay for the operations of government, is which people are most affected, and therefore, in the context of the comment I was replying to, which people are "chased out" of the state.

At least other forms of taxes hit everyone, not just a specific portion of the population.

Which may or may not be a good thing, depending on your own personal perspective. As I mentioned in my message, property taxes affect property owners, and to a lesser extent, renters (due to pass-through, only to the extent that the market would bear pass-through). Income taxes affect mostly wage earners. The impact of sales tax increases is generally a substantially higher percentage of a poor person's take-home pay than other people's take-home pay. So depending on whether you want to protect landowners, wage earners or people living in poverty, that will affect which tax you increase (or put in place).

I don't mind paying extra because I "own" a piece of land. But there does come a point where it is out of control. Services that are used by the entire community should be paid for at least in part by the entire community in my book. Hitting homeowners extra hard in comparison just to subsidize everyone else is in no way equitable or justified.

Equitability and justifiability are in the eyes of the beholder. Each constituency can justify shifting the burden onto some other constituency for one reason or another. People advocate shifting the burden (disproportionately, as described above) onto poor people, by making the "affects everyone equally" argument (because the people making the argument measure using total dollars instead of percent of the taxpayer's available financial resources). People advocate shifting the burden onto wage earners because it represents a balance between the "affects everyone equally" argument and the "protect poor people" argument. And people advocate shifting the burden onto landowners because they make the case that taxing landowners generally puts more burden on more affluent people than the other two types of taxes does.

So it all comes down to politics from there. The only perspective that doesn't violate any of those three constituencies, directly, is the one I outlined in the message you replied to: Advocate cutting services.

I'd rather pay a 10% sales tax on everything and have some control over my spending than have a single mayor and 24 people on the city council - most of whom are quite wealthy, own businesses, have family money, or are otherwise not overly concerned with living paycheck to paycheck - decide they can just jack up the property tax rate whenever they want, drag homeowners over the coals, and hold our homes hostage if we can't or refuse to pay the extra increase.

I think you're off track. Generally, people who are "quite wealthy" would not advocate for increasing property taxes, if they were motivated by personal interest, since they generally have lots of valuable property.

It's government theft at the point of an economic sword because the homeowners have no otions

There is no merit in any part of that sentence.

If the people have to make cuts to survive in a recession so should the government.

Isn't that what I said?