My Opinion Means NOTHING!

[Peter Pirate]

Over the weekend the Pirate family saw 'Finding Nemo' and I had a revelation. My opinion means nothing! Why, perhaps you might ask, is the Pirate suddenly so hard on himself?
Well, for the umpeenth time I simply don't see it like all the rest (or at least the majority) and this time Disney rose-coloredness can't be blamed.

We saw 'Nemo' Saturday night and I was completely...Underwhelmed. Oh, it was touching, entertaining and funny but I saw no greatness in it. Nothing I like I have always felt with 'Aladdin' or 'Lion King'. In fact I see this as the worst of the Pixar flicks... I enjoyed 'Bugs Life' more. I really have little desire to see this again, unlike other recent flicks 'Treasure Planet' and 'Lilo & Stitch' which I've watched many times with my kids.

For the record my Wife & oldest daughter liked 'Nemo' a lot. My youngest daughter liked it, too but felt it dragged, which was exactly my thoughts. We all agreed that Ellen stole the show.

My problem though, as it relates to this board, is that quite obviously what I am impressed by is not what impresses the masses. I hated 'Shrek' and now think 'Nemo' is vastly overated (two of the biggest box offices ever!)...What's a Pirate to do? If my film tastes are so drastically different perhaps my take on Park issues are, as well. Perhaps I should just live in my own little world and enjoy what I enjoy and quit berating everyone else...

In closing, imagine how hard it must be for the management of Disney to be sold on the right course of action when a beautifly made picture and story like 'TP' (my opinion-for what it's worth)) bombs and yet total garbage like 'The Hulk' (opinion based on word of mouth) can bring in 100mil in its first few days? Where's the logic?

Answers anyone?

 

[Figmentrocks]

PiratePete,

My wife and I really enjoyed Finding Nemo, most certainly. As an artist, the quality was incredible with the fluid computer animation. We made an interesting observation, though. What we didn't like about the movie, in a sense, is the fact that the plots are so few and far between. Basically someone or something gets lost in the animated movies and they have to be found. I realize that there is only so much of a plot that can be entailed in a film targeted to kids, but there has to be some ideas out there. Who knows? Nemo was a visual fest, for certain.

 

[crusader]

I wish I could help you there but I'm sure you're not alone. I enjoyed this movie because the animation and the comedy was very fresh and alive which made it an entertaining film. You may not agree but I wouldn't label you as unique simply because the film didn't generate the same appeal. To each his own.

 

[TeenaS]

I have to agree with the Pirate. I've been waiting and waiting to be moved like I was in the Little Mermaid, Beauty & The Beast, Aladdin, Lion King, Mulan and I adored Tarzan. I keep thinking that maybe its the lack of a wonderful story and wonderful new music to go along with it - - I don't know why there haven't been any since Tarzan .... I wish I did! Anyway, I keep on going to every new Disney animated movie and I keep on hoping for another "WOW" and I keep getting disappointed. I liked Treasure Planet and Lilo & Stitch and like Pirate Pete I have watched them a few times. But I didn't get that with Nemo even though I thought it was cute. I liked it more than Monsters but not near as much as Toy Story I and II. I'll buy Nemo - the colors alone were so beautiful and because I buy most of the Disney animated movies. However, I'm still waiting for that "WOW". I keep getting disappointed because I keep thinking the next one will be the one that has that Disney magic back. I'm excited about Brother Bear simply because I want that WOW again and I keep thinking maybe Brother Bear will be the one - - it has new original music and from Phil Collins (like Tarzan) so maybe, maybe, maybe ..... a gal can only hope!!
But I'm glad I finally found someone else that didn't go "WOW" over Nemo.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Thanks TeenaS, like you, I'm also excited about 'Brother Bear'. It looks 'Disney' to me and to me the music is important and I liked what Phil Collins did with Tarzan (although I was never a Collins fan before).

I liked the two songs by John Resnik in 'TP' - If there had been more I think it'd been a bit better (hard to do with a non-romantic 'boy' story though). So all in all I think good music does and to the tale & feel...

 

[KNWVIKING]

A woman I work with swears Alfredo's in Epcot is her favorite restaurant,loves the food. I've eaten there twice, totally dissatisfied. Doesn't make either of us wrong,just different.

 

[hopemax]

In closing, imagine how hard it must be for the management of Disney to be sold on the right course of action when a beautifly made picture and story like 'TP' (my opinion-for what it's worth)) bombs and yet total garbage like 'The Hulk' (opinion based on word of mouth) can bring in 100mil in its first few days? Where's the logic?

Well, the Hulk's box office dropped 70% from last week to this week. Not exactly a sign that the public sees the Hulk as the best movie in the summer. A big opening weekend, isn't a sign of how well the public is responding to the quality of the picture as much as it is a sign of how successful the marketing campaign was, and how much of a built-in audience a project already had. And of course the Hulk was opening against basically nothing.

Treasure Planet, OTOH, was opening against Harry Potter, talk about built-in audience! If Monsters, Inc had opened sandwiched between the first HP and the first LOTR, I don't think it would have performed as well either. As it was, Monster's still lost 50% the week HP opened, Thanksgiving they got a slight boost, and then lost another 60% the next week. Treasure Planet never stood a chance against Chamber of Secrets, quality or no quality.

Perhaps, Disney might have stood a chance if the movie was something that looked appealing for the 7 and under set (like Monsters), but Treasure Planet's marketing was pretty much aimed at 9-13 year olds, with the cute, but broody wind-surfing teenage boy, and its PG rating.

Certainly, there is someone left at Disney who would come to the same conclusion.

 

[rexmundi]

Peter Pirate:
Maybe you should go see From Justin to Kelly. The consensus is that it's one of the worst movies ever made, but if you find yourself disagreeing with the majority, you might actually enjoy it.

 

[Planogirl]

I understand how you feel but for me it was Lilo & Stitch. I didn't understand the fuss over Lilo when it came out and to this day it still puzzles me. But I also understand that Disney (and Pixar also) needs to be concerned over what will likely appeal to the masses and not just to me and not just the Disney purists. I feel that a good company will make enough quality for me to enjoy a portion of their output too.

I did enjoy Nemo, maybe not as much as some people did but I thought it was good. I thought that Treasure Planet was very underrated. I also liked Shrek and (horror of horrors) I liked Spirit a lot. So what do I know?

 

[OnWithTheShow]

I also agree with everything you said Pirate. I also look forward to Brother Bear. After talking to several of the animators they seem to truely care about the movie and the message. Seems Feature Animation Florida doesnt share the "factory" attitude of Burbank.

 

[Peter Pirate]

From Justin to Kelly'? ... (LOL) Uh, no thanks. I'm quite sure I read this one right!

Hope, thanks for the insight on the importance of marketing in movie making...Although it begs a dfferent question. How come Disney seems so inept at their marketing recently? From the blitz with 'Pearl Harbor' to the misguided marketing of 'TP' to virtually no marketing of 'Emperor' it would seem they're really mising out (screwing up) the opening weekend bonanza in many cases - although 'Nemo' certainly wasn't one of them. Is there no marketing formula?

Thanks PG for showing me your disparities as well. I thought it was just me!

Mr. Show, good to cross paths again. I hope all is going well. Thanks for the 'boost' on 'Brother Bear'. I'm happy to hear when people really take pride in their work!

 

[rwodonnell]

I completely agree! Nemo was overrated, and I also like Bug's Life better - it had previously been my least favorite Pixar movie. That's not to say Nemo was bad - it was good, just not great. I think it missed good music, and that is also important in my opinion, as you stated. Also looking forward to Brother Bear!

 

[grinningghost]

Although I loved Nemo, and thought the animation was absolutely stunning, I do understand what you're saying about the "grab me" factor. Not since "Lion King", have I been truly "grabbed" by a Disney animated film. The music in the really big Disney movies (Lion King, Aladdin, Beauty, Mermaid, Cinderella, Snow White) is a BIG reason they were so successful. The music and lyrics were so unique, especially in Aladdin, Beauty and Mermaid. Like someone actually sat down and THOUGHT about meaningful, fun and unique phrases to put into the songs.

Now it's all about the computer graphics. While they are amazing, it would be nice to see the whole deal again. Animation, humor, story, emotion and above all - music that really GRABS you.

I'm one who thinks that Tarzan missed the mark on music, but I'm sure I'm in the minority there.

 

[roymccoy]

I have to agree with Pirate in saying that I think that Nemo is underwhelming. I admit that it was better than 90% of what's out there right now but it is, in my mind, my least favorite Pixar movie. I'm not saying it's bad, but I can't get onboard with the crowd that's placing it up there with Toy Story and Lion King.

Just a little side note, my 3 year old DD really didn't love it either.


Roy

 

[WDWHound]

Nemo was OK, but Monsters Inc was a much better film. I think Pixar got so caught up in making Finding Nemo look good that they didn't do thier normal exceptional job of tighening the film up and keeping the story moving.

I my opinion, Nemo is still better than most animated offerings from other companies, but its not quite up to tyhe level of excellence I have come to expect from Pixar.

 

[Another Voice]

Friend Pirate – it's the most painful lesson anyone in Hollywood needs to learn. You have to separate what you like from what you believe that public wants.

Worse than merely watching a film, I've been involved in several films that I thought were absolutely terrific - only sit in the test screenings listening to shuffling feet, the whispered disappointments and suffering the yawns. And I've been involved with movies that I think ought to be buried deep within a salt dome to protect future generations from the agony of the waste, only to wander past a theater with a line of people lined up waiting to get in.*

While it's easy to decided if you like or dislike something, it's all but impossible to really gage what the public's reaction is going to be. Some people, like Walt, are blessed with that kind of insight. Others, like Eisner, are not – they have to work at it. Nine out of ten theatrical releases loose money; it's been a fact of life in Hollywood since the days of silents. There are no rules, there are no formulas. There's only your gut. You learn to accept that you're going to be wrong a lot (if not most) of the time.

So you separate the two. You understand that you like what you like and you learn to enjoy it without regard for others. My favorite film of last year was The Dish from Australia. I don't worry that it didn't even do well on the art house circuit or that no one even watched it on cable. I enjoyed it and that's what's important.

But when I work on a project, I have to temper my personal tastes with what I understand of the public. That doesn’t mean you simply pander to people, you decide who's going to like what you're making and live within those boundaries. Just as your tastes are different from the public, so is the taste of public member A from public member B. Only an idiot tries to please everyone. So you have to decide; if you're smart you settle for an audiences whose taste is close to yours.

I make sure it's done as well as possible (cause that's what I think the public wants as well), but when my likes conflict with what I think will make a more popular film, that's what I like has to give way. I've learned (painfully) to place some doubt in my sense of inflaibility. I which more people in Hollywood would do the same.

For Disney – I continue that same process. Personally, I really like the Animal Kingdom. I think 'The Tree of Life' is the best centerpiece of any Disney park, I am fascinated with animals (and most of my gripes about the park center around that), and I've never failed to make a stop there when I'm at WDW.

But I also know that the place is a disaster for the public. They see it as too small, too unimaginative, neither a full blown theme park nor a full fledged zoo – I can understand why their reception has been less enthusiatic than mine. I don't blame them for being stupid or lazy or ungrateful – it's their opinion and they have a right to it. Disney is, after all, trying to take their money. If Disney fails to convince the public to hand over their wallet it's not the public's failure.

It's not that your opinion doesn’t mean anything; it just has to be put in context. When it comes time to spend my own money, I have one opinion. But when it comes time to discuss who Disney as a business has dealt with the park, then it's time to bring in another mindset.

Call it bi-polar disorder or whatever, but that's how you have to think in show business. Maybe that's why so many people out here are nuts.


* - but these times are more than offset by the times the public responds enthusiastically to something I think is good too.

 

[hopemax]

My favorite film of last year was The Dish from Australia. I don't worry that it didn't even do well on the art house circuit or that no one even watched it on cable. I enjoyed it and that's what's important.

To go off-topic for a second, the Dish is a funny, funny movie! And it even stars a few people that you might be familiar with, like Sam Neill (Jurassic Park) and Patrick Warburton (from TV's Newsradio)

AV psst, " it's from 2000"

 

[Peter Pirate]

M. Voice, while you oft respond critically to my more mundane 'cheerleading', I am happy to see you still see fit to respond in such an informative manner when I'm pitching to your 'wheel house', so to speak.

So since there is no formula then am I to assume that Hollywood is really not much different than Vegas? Is this why Disney will so easily go to bed with Bruckheimer (although I know you don't like him)? Because his batting average at the box office is better than average?

Does this mean the few real success stories are truly individual? I guess Mel Brooks would have to have been one of the 'bankable' ones then...How about Ron Howard? While extremely successful Disney still obviously had a problem with his 'big' budget demands for 'Alamo'. Was this smart or dumb or just another pull of the slot handle?

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
Over the weekend the Pirate family saw 'Finding Nemo' and I had a revelation. My opinion means nothing! Why, perhaps you might ask, is the Pirate suddenly so hard on himself?
Well, for the umpeenth time I simply don't see it like all the rest (or at least the majority) and this time Disney rose-coloredness can't be blamed.

We saw 'Nemo' Saturday night and I was completely...Underwhelmed. Oh, it was touching, entertaining and funny but I saw no greatness in it. Nothing I like I have always felt with 'Aladdin' or 'Lion King'. In fact I see this as the worst of the Pixar flicks... I enjoyed 'Bugs Life' more. I really have little desire to see this again, unlike other recent flicks 'Treasure Planet' and 'Lilo & Stitch' which I've watched many times with my kids.

For the record my Wife & oldest daughter liked 'Nemo' a lot. My youngest daughter liked it, too but felt it dragged, which was exactly my thoughts. We all agreed that Ellen stole the show.

My problem though, as it relates to this board, is that quite obviously what I am impressed by is not what impresses the masses. I hated 'Shrek' and now think 'Nemo' is vastly overated (two of the biggest box offices ever!)...What's a Pirate to do? If my film tastes are so drastically different perhaps my take on Park issues are, as well. Perhaps I should just live in my own little world and enjoy what I enjoy and quit berating everyone else...

In closing, imagine how hard it must be for the management of Disney to be sold on the right course of action when a beautifly made picture and story like 'TP' (my opinion-for what it's worth)) bombs and yet total garbage like 'The Hulk' (opinion based on word of mouth) can bring in 100mil in its first few days? Where's the logic?

Answers anyone?

SEEK HELP IMMEDIATELY!!!!

There is "REALLY REALLY" something wrong with you if you hated SHREK!!!!

I could watch that over and over (probably 10 tiimes so far) and really hope they attempt to make a decent sequel.


But while I didn't exactly find Nemo undewhelming, it wasn't the one of the best.

I would rank Monster's Inc (which by the way my SIL and nephew didn't care for (go figure)) much better than Nemo.

When I see a movie I want to be entertained. That comes in a variety of flavors from comedy, to action, to (eek!) romance, and even the just plain silly.

I don't get heavily into thought about the process or the intentions of the company who made it.

To me (using my own internal measuring device) a movie ranges from GREAT (like Shrek,LOTR, HP) to a real dud (like Star Wars Attack of the clones).

 

[Another Voice]

Mr. Pirate – I try (but often fail) to never be critical of opinions. As for cheerleading, perhaps I've been in Hollywood far too long to get excited about something without hard, tangible proof. It's nothing but the baggage of too many years of dashed hopes.


Hollywood is exactly like Vegas, only the casinos give you much better odds. Movie making is by its very nature is a small, cottage industry of huge swings between success and failure. What happened is that some people became entranced by the wild successes and thought they could ignore the failures.

They're trying to place "safe" bets by using pre-sold concepts (sequels, remakes, TV shows) on the assumption that if the public bought them once they will buy them again. They're using pre-sold talent (actors, name directors and producers) on the assumption that if the public bought them once before, they'll buy them again.

It's a nice theory and sometimes it even works. But most of time it doesn't.

First thing I heard this morning that the problem with The Hulk was that they should have gone with a "name" star. No one mentioned the fact that it was a lousy movie. After Treasure Planet tanked, people said exactly the same thing – they should have gone with "name" voices. Of course, having a name like Brad Pitt isn't going to do a thing to keep Sinbad from failure – but that's the nice thing about not having any rules: no one can blame you when something goes wrong. I'm sure that Jeffrey Katzenberg is already getting the "but it had Brad Pitt!" speech ready so that everyone can softly murmur their complaints about the fickle public.

The closest you can get to a "sure thing" is to work very, very, very hard. Most people in the grab-the-money-and-run frame of mind just don't want to put in that much effort. Like any other job, they simply do enough to get by. From the studio's point of view, hiring Bruckheimer for Pirates is a safe bet "because he's got a good batting average". It doesn't mean he was the best person to make the film, he was the easiest choice. Explosions are a guaranteed crowd pleaser and Bruckheimer is a guy who can deliver just that.

The problem Ron Howard ran into is that he didn't want to make an "easy" Alamo, one choke full of explosions and flying body parts. The script he had was extremely literate and intriguing. In order to make the film more a "sure thing", Howard started to buy big name stars (like Russell Crow) that came with huge price tags. The trap of using pre-sold parts to guarantee success tempts everyone. Eisner's decision really came down to which set of "sure thing" guarantees to choose – he picked the cheaper alternative.

I may be naïve, but I really think the public is looking for good films. Disney's greatest successes have come from their mid budget films created by people with a passion, not a business interest, in making the film. The Princess Diaries, The Rookie, Signs, Lilo and Stitch are all "unsafe" films yet they returned vast sums of money back to Disney while sure things like Reign of Fire, Bad Company and The Recruit punched craters in the balance sheet.

That is what's so personally frustrating about Disney right now. They know how to do good work, they can do great work, but the management just doesn't really seem interested in making it happen. Instead of something new, we get the safe sequels, the safe mega-explosion blockbusters, the safe teenage gross-out comedies.

Safe and easy – but not magic.