My Journey to 50 miles (2nd attempt)... (comments welcome)

[disneygpa]

The key to running ultras is to be very deliberate with your pacing and your fueling. Even though 50k is only a few miles more than a marathon, the extra time adds up quickly. Go slow, go steady, and continually fuel and hydrate. Having a good training plan helps too. Doing back to back long runs helps too, as they prepare you for running on tired legs. When training for my ultras, I’d run 4-6 hours on Saturday and another 2-4 on Sunday. Since a 50k is a bit shorter than those were, you could probably get away with 18-20 miles on Saturday and 12-14 on Sunday.

Thanks for the input!! I'll be reaching out to Billy for the training plan. Fueling and hydration are a little concern. I was able to get by on H2O, powerade, and gels for Dopey. But this 50k has a lot more elevation gain than the entire state of FL. I'm not sure if just gels and drinks will be enough. Guess I'll experiment with stuff during my long runs.

Garmin still down... dang it.

Did 3 miles last night with Donna and the run/walk plan. It was hot for around these parts and Donna didn't deal with the heat all that well. She finished all her intervals but struggled with the last few. Can't seem to find my water bottle. I might have left it in FL. She needed some hydration, and of course I didn't bring any for a 3 mile run. Lesson learned. Find my water bottle or get a new one for the hot runs.

I think we were pretty good on the interval pacing as we finished with 3.04 miles @ 14:49/m. Sure would be nice to see how we did.

Tonight might be a late night run. I have to work, then we have dinner plans and there isn't going to be time to do the run in between. No worries. I like running at dusk too!!

 

[col1]

Very cool to have the 50k course so close by. It is a great goal.

Hot runs are a challenge for sure. I don’t normally take anything with me for a 3 miler either but I did a couple of times and found if I took it a drank it, not sure it helped my performance thou .

Enjoy dinner and your dusk run, should be cooler ?

 

[disneygpa]

Garmin is back up! Well sorta. I can see everything on the app. But not on the website. Nice to see they are making progress!

Last night was a late run... Dinner out at 5, chit chat way too much, back to their place to pick up some free crab! They had gone out and gotten 30 earlier in the day, so I'll be having crab for dinner tonight!! Didn't get home until a little after 8, stretched and got out the door at 2030. Very pleasant evening for a run. Low 70s and the sun was just setting.

Run was 5 miles @LR. Stayed fairly close to my pacing. At least for me.

Got home at 2130. Tried to cool down, had some water and then wasted all those calories from the run on a slice of tiramisu. Totally worth it. Tried to get some sleep but I had to come to work early today to switch some substations. Sooooo that didn't work out all that well. Tossed and turned most of the night because I was worried I'd sleep through the alarm. Oh well, I'll sleep good tonight!!

 

[disneygpa]

So, a little excitement at work yesterday. Lost a transformer for unknown reasons. Still looking at possible causes. No critters. Very unusual for a transformer to just up and fail.

If you are wondering, this is the result of the failure. It occurred on the high side 12,470 volts. Looks like the fault sliced through a fan blade on the cooling fan below. Lot's of energy being released in a very short amount of time. Overcurrent protection devices (big fuses) did their job and the outage remained local to that substation. Power was rerouted and restored within the hour.



On a running note.

I'm trying to shuffle a few things to accommodate our drive across the country.

@DopeyBadger Billy, basically, I'm sliding everything for the rest of this week up by a day. Instead of having Thursday off, we'll be running Friday's run on Thursday and so forth. That should take care of this weeks runs. Next week I'm going to play by ear and see where we happen to be in the country. But, I'm confident we can get all the runs in at some point. Your 2 cents? This seem like an ok plan?

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger Billy, basically, I'm sliding everything for the rest of this week up by a day. Instead of having Thursday off, we'll be running Friday's run on Thursday and so forth. That should take care of this weeks runs. Next week I'm going to play by ear and see where we happen to be in the country. But, I'm confident we can get all the runs in at some point. Your 2 cents? This seem like an ok plan?

Seems reasonable to me. Just being flexible and fitting running into your life when it can. The more important part is to evaluate what you were able to do when training resumes normally. That's when the adjustments should be considered.

 

[Kerry1957]

Fueling is a very individual thing. Yes, the number of carbs, electrolytes, and other necessities can be calculated, but how you tolerate different fuels can very widely between people. For up to a HM, GU gels and water are enough for me. For marathons (& training) I've tried a variety of things and I find I crave real food. Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches work well for me. For the Disney marathon I started with 3 or 4 frozen uncrustables in addition to my GU gels. I also found in training runs that GU gels plus sports drinks upset my stomach, and may not get me enough water to properly absorb the GU goodies.

So my only advice is the obvious....experiment on longer runs so you have a strategy you are comfortable with on race day.

 

[canglim52]

Sorry for the late response, for some reason I didn’t get an email alert. I agree with all the above. I’ve only run a 50k and it wasn’t any harder than a marathon in my opinion. The pace is really comfortable for the majority and the last 10k is where the work starts.

 

[disneygpa]

Thanks for the replies! I haven't fully committed to the 50k yet. But it sure is eating away at my brain.

Longish update here:

7-31 ran Donna's long run that was scheduled for Saturday. Moved it to Friday because she was heading to Spokane. (beginning leg of cross country kid move)

She did great! I'm proud of her accomplishments so far! Two of her run intervals fell on the steep hill and she was able to do both with no problem!! I was supposed to do an additional 18 min but skipped it for some reason. I'm trying to remember why, but I suspect it was a time issue, as she needed to be on the road that morning.

8-1 thru 8-3 on the road. Nor much running these days. Made it from Stanwood to Billings the first day. 16 hrs of driving a 26ft budget moving van. That's a long time to drive! 8-2, got up early and took the dog for about 1.5 miles of run/jog. Then back on the road. Made it to Sioux Falls SD. No running here. Up early for another long day in the truck. Made it to near St. Louis on 8-3. Got up early the next morning(8-4) for my long run that was originally scheduled for 8-2.

8-4, 7 miles at LR.



Back near my old stomping grounds. Stayed fairly good on paces. Nearly got creamed by a car that didn't stop for the pedestrian signal. Came within inches of hitting me and Sully. Overall it felt good to get out and run! I think this is the farthest Sully has run since I moved out last year. He was a tired doggy!!

The rest of 8-4 was spent at my Mom's house. Had family over for BBQ pork steaks with all the fixin's!! Long time since I've seen some of them. It was a nice visit.

8-5 back on the road! Made it to Macon GA. Another very long day in the moving truck!! 8-6 up early onward to Windemere FL. Made it to the kids apartment about 2pm. No running. Took all the grandkids to the pool. Nice and relaxing. 3117 miles.... Hope that's the last time I have to drive a moving truck across the country.

8-7, 2 miles with Donna and then a blind progression. T & D of 156. Normally I don't pay attention to T & D because it's never really a factor up here in the great NW. But I figured I should include it here because this was a blind progression run. Needless to say, it was WAY hotter and humid than I'm used to!!!

2 miles with Donna



Blind progression portion



Pretty happy with the blind portion considering the heat and humidity.

My thoughts on running in FL. On the one hand it's nice and flat and on the other it's HOT and humid at least in August. Another blind run today. We'll see how it goes in the cooler temps up here.

8-9 2 miles with Donna. Another great day for her! Nothing out of the ordinary. Nice easy morning.

8-10 5 miles @ LR



Another pretty good run. Took Sully out again and again thought he might die. That heat and humidity is no joke! And I'm sure it's especially hard in a fur coat! Went out at 5:30am trying to beat the heat. For the most part we did, it was still really hot and humid, but at least it was before the sun came up!

@DopeyBadger Billy, Donna is in FL until Sept 3rd. She is going to keep doing her run/walks while she's there. Should I keep doing the run/walk portions of the runs I would have done with her? OR can I change those to WU pace instead of doing run/walk?

Thoughts on driving a moving truck across the USA. First, WA state gas tax sucks. Fuel was WAY cheaper in the other states! Second, this is a beautiful country to drive through. We saw everything from sea to shining sea and it was all wonderful to take in. Third, days in a truck with a 10 yr old boy can be fun and challenging. He has WAY too much energy to be cooped up for those long stretches on the road. I really enjoyed the talks we had and the laughs we shared but boy oh boy. He was a grump by the end of the day!! Forth, Tennessee, ya'll need to fix those dang roads!! Fifth, I'm glad it's over.

Flew back yesterday and for the first time in 30+ years I woke up in WA state with no family here. As mentioned above Donna is in FL until Sept, helping the kids get moved into their new home. Kinda weird to be all alone.

Speaking of the flight. The guy behind me coughed the entire way. Yes he was masked and so was I. But of course today I feel a little crummy. Hoping it's just all in my head but I guess we'll see.

Sorry so long winded. Guess I had a lot to say..

 

[DopeyBadger]

Happy to hear it was a great trip!

@DopeyBadger Billy, Donna is in FL until Sept 3rd. She is going to keep doing her run/walks while she's there. Should I keep doing the run/walk portions of the runs I would have done with her? OR can I change those to WU pace instead of doing run/walk?

Just do easy running instead for the same duration of time.

 

[disneygpa]

Just do easy running instead for the same duration of time.

That's what I was hoping you'd say! I love doing the run/walks with Donna, but on my own I prefer to just run!!

 

[disneygpa]

Last night was one of those nights that I really just wanted to sit on the sofa, drink a beer and listen to smooth jazz.....

With the kids moving to FL, we have decided to move back into our house after being in an apartment for just over a year. Well, with DW gone, I'm packing and prepping to get the apartment vacated as well as getting the house put together. After working at the apartment for about 1.5 hours, I went home and started cleaning. Ate dinner while I was cleaning and putting stuff away. Decided I wanted a little break so I sat on the sofa and played games on my phone. After 30 min or so, I knew I had to get up and get my run done.

Not sure if it's all the additional house stuff, the flight with the coughing guy, or just fatigue but I didn't really feel like running.

Got up, stretched and headed out. I figured once I got going I'd probably be ok. After the first mile I was feeling pretty good and by mile 2 I was happy I got off the sofa.

Another blind progression last night. Times were better than the FL blind progression but it was 10 degrees cooler and barely any humidity. Pretty happy with the results. Wasn't completely spent when I finished. Might be able to run a little faster thru all progressions but if I can it wouldn't be much faster.



Day off today. I think I'm going to try getting up early and do the runs first thing in the morning. The sofa won't be calling my name as loudly at that time!

 

[disneygpa]

@DopeyBadger Hey Billy does the rest period in this really mean rest? Or RI @ WU? Just wanted to clarify before I put it in my Garmin. Thanks!!

 

[DopeyBadger]

View attachment 518131

@DopeyBadger Hey Billy does the rest period in this really mean rest? Or RI @ WU? Just wanted to clarify before I put it in my Garmin. Thanks!!

Whatever allows you to put in a consistent effort on the 1 mile T intervals.

 

[disneygpa]

Whatever allows you to put in a consistent effort on the 1 mile T intervals.

So walk, sit, or jog? Any of these are acceptable as long as I can keep the T pace for a mile?

Pretty sure I'll just go to my warm up pace. I'm sure that'll work just fine!

 

[DopeyBadger]

So walk, sit, or jog? Any of these are acceptable as long as I can keep the T pace for a mile?

I probably wouldn't sit as you're likely to tighten up. But yes, it's really the same as almost all RI. The goal is to do whatever feels right on that particular day in order to ensure that your T paced intervals remain quality. There are "floating rest" workouts where the RI is actually more defined as those have a more specific purpose (diminished recovery).

 

[disneygpa]

Weekend update!

Friday was 4 miles at EA. Nice easy run. Paces were good and everything felt fine. Starting to get warm here in the PNW, not like the rest of the country, but warm for up here. Been trying to drink extra fluids.


Saturday was another 4 at EA. Since I've been the lead, I don't do a lot of physical work work. It's a lot more sitting behind a desk assigning work, checking jobs, attending meetings etc etc.... So anyway, I worked Saturday. Like actually had to do physical labor. Spent all day working out of a 135' boom lift swapping out 750W lighting fixtures. I mention this because I really felt it during this run. Working out of a boom lift you are using stabilizing muscles that you don't always use when working on the ground and my hips were tired after Saturday's run. Another warm night but everything was still ok. Paces were good.



Sunday. Well... Sunday sucked. This might have been my worst run in almost two years of running. It was HOT!! Like super hot for the PNW.. T & D at run time was 158. I figured I'd go to the shadiest place I could find to run. Well this had good and bad to it. The good was that the shade was nice, but the bad was when I would hit the sunny stretches it felt like an oven AND all those big beautiful trees that were giving me great shade also blocked the breeze that was blowing. Basically it sucked. Probably shouldn't have even tried this at this time. The irony here is that it was 10 degrees cooler at my house, which is much closer to the Puget Sound. But there isn't much shade there. Might not have mattered with the added fatigue from the early days. Might still have sucked.

To make things worse, somewhere along the way I paused my Garmin somehow and my laps didn't end up even and it didn't tell me when I'd reached the end of the run. The first 4 miles were ok. I stayed fairly close to my LR pace which is probably where I screwed up. Probably should have made this an EB or even an EA run. After the 4th mile the wheels just kinda fell off. I was beat, my calves, thighs and hips were just tired. Did a lot of walking in between short runs. I completed the distance but dang it was tough.



This was a tough lesson to learn. Probably should have done something different.

I know it's only one bad run. But, it really felt like a freaking train wreck.

I'm supposed to do another 4 at EA tonight but might take tonight and Tuesday off. I think I'm switching to getting up early for awhile. At least until the hottest part of summer is over. Or Donna gets back from FL...

I have a few more things to gather from the apartment and then I need to clean it. Still have til the end of the month, but no sense in waiting til then.

 

[DopeyBadger]

To make things worse, somewhere along the way I paused my Garmin somehow and my laps didn't end up even and it didn't tell me when I'd reached the end of the run. The first 4 miles were ok. I stayed fairly close to my LR pace which is probably where I screwed up. Probably should have made this an EB or even an EA run. After the 4th mile the wheels just kinda fell off. I was beat, my calves, thighs and hips were just tired. Did a lot of walking in between short runs. I completed the distance but dang it was tough.

The lesson learned is that T+D matters. A 158 requires a 6% adjustment as a starting point. But for those still in the acclimation phase because of a sudden ramp up in temps it could easily be more. Trust the effort, not the pace. So this says your LR pace is normally 10:58, but at a T+D of 158 a starting point is 11:41. So it goes to show that it's pretty different. Trying to maintain a 10:58 is more like M Tempo effort. So not necessarily impossible to hold for the distance/duration you were doing. So I'd say it's a combo of the T+D and your general fatigue from work.

 

[disneygpa]

Thanks for the info Billy!

Looks like it wouldn't have been a bad idea to run it more like an EA run.

It was a tough lesson to learn, but I won't make the same mistake again.

 

[disneygpa]

Well 40 degree temp change sure makes a run better!!
Got up early today to get my run in. 58 degrees instead of 98. Much more pleasant! No moon this morning, tons of stars in the sky!!
2 miles at EA and then my final blind progression for this plan.
Everything went pretty good. Paces were decent and I felt good after the run.
Hips are still feeling a little tired. I think I'm going to try more stretching. I've kinda been neglecting it lately.

 

[disneygpa]

Weekend update:

Friday 3 miles at EA. Seems like there is already a touch of fall in the morning air in the PNW. Mornings are perfect weather for running! 50 ish. Way, WAY better than 98!! Nothing spectacular about the run other than the stars were brilliant again!! My apologies to the industrious spiders that are trying to make webs across the sidewalks in the night. I must have run through half a dozen of them this morning!



Saturday morning. Slept in a little but was still up before the sun. Sunrise was amazing this morning! A little fog in low spots which really added to the peace and calm of a nice 4.5 mile EA run.



Sunday... oh Sunday.. Another amazing morning for a run! Stars were out and just some pink and orange over the Cascades as I left the house for my longest run since Dopey! This run was FUN!! Challenging, but FUN!! 2 mile WU, 4-1 mile intervals @ 9:17 w/ 2min RI followed by 4 - 100 meter @ 7:51 w/ 90 sec RI finished with a 1 mile CD.

After the 4 "T" runs I wasn't sure there was anything left in the tank for the "R" runs. But, once the buzzer went off I took off running! About 20 min after I got home I ended up getting a headache. This is something new, never happened before. Could have just been a little dehydration, or the cold air getting to my sinuses. Didn't seem that big a deal. I was definitely feeling this run! Whew!!!

This is really why I like the @DopeyBadger plans. I could have never come up with something like this by myself! Thanks Billy for all the variety!!



After the run, I had about 2.5 hours to recover and then I was supposed to move the last of the heavy stuff from the apartment. This turned out to be a freaking nightmare because Uhaul totally screwed me. I was supposed to pick up the truck locally, about 3 miles from my house. I get an email 27 min before I'm supposed to pick it up saying that they moved my reservation to a different town that is 13 miles away. So, I hop in the car and head to the new pickup place. I immediately get on the phone to customer service to complain about 20 extra miles of driving at $1.09/mile. I get that problem solved, aaaaaannnnnddd here's the best part. The place they sent me to doesn't do Sunday pickups!!! So now I'm truckless!!! Thank God that one of the guys that was helping me move brought his truck. What should have been a one and done load ended up being 3 truck loads. Overall not too bad. I'm waiting to hear from a manager at Uhaul. They are definitely going to get an ear full. Best thing is that all the heavy stuff is out of the apartment and back in our house. Still have to go clean the apartment but that shouldn't take too long. Then the fun of organizing and decorating the house! Totally looking forward to a few years of just me and DW!

Monday morning run. A little overcast this morning. Could really only make out a few stars. Sunrise is getting later and there wasn't even a hint of it coming on the horizon this morning. Still pleasant for a run. 4.5 miles at EA. Wasn't sure how this would feel after yesterdays butt kicker. But everything was fine. Spooked several bunnies this morning and a couple of cats.



Rest day tomorrow. I'm totally sleeping til 4!!!