"Mothers don't stop Getting angry with stupid bigots who (mess) with their children!"

[Liberty Belle]

Ahh, I see we need more drinks:

Getting drunk never looked so pretty.

 

[Uncle Remus]

How about this situation?:

Tests show that controversial runner Caster Semenya is a woman ...and a man!

The 18-year-old South African champ has no womb or ovaries and her testosterone levels are more than three times higher than those of a normal female, according to reports.

The tests, ordered by The International Association of Athletics Federations after Semenya's 800-meter victory in the World Championships, determined she's a hermaphrodite - having both male and female organs.

According to a source with knowledge of the IAAF tests, Semenya has internal testes - the male sexual organs that produce testosterone.

Testosterone is a hormone responsible for building muscles and for producing body hair and a deep voice.

Confirmation of the test results is sure to stoke the controversy that erupted after the university student's sensational track triumph.

She has been embraced in her home country - where she was declared "our girl" - and appeared on a magazine cover after a feminine makeover.

"God made me the way I am and I accept myself. I am who I am and I'm proud of myself," she told You Magazine, which ran a photo spread.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-09-10/news/17931933_1_caster-semenya-test-results-photo-spread

This is where I have to quote my mentally challenged brother:
We're all God's children.

 

[PeterPan09]

Man this thread is making me sad...and angry. But mostly sad.

It's been enlightening as always.

If your value system is such that you believe LGBT people are immoral by their very presence on the earth, there's nothing I can or would say to convince you otherwise. That's your choice to believe. However, I would be lying if I wasn't concerned about a child or other person in your life being LGBT and how they feel.

 

[krcit]

Chaz Bono can scream to the top of the trees that she is a man now, doesn't make it so.

She can legally change her name, take male hormones, have a mastectomy, hysterectomy and try to grow man parts. Doesn't change the fact her DNA is female and will ALWAYS be female.

Yes, I teach my kids it is stupid to try to change things that can't be changed. If they asked me about Chaz Bono, I would tell them she needs sympathy and pity because she couldn't love who she was, she was trying to always change what can never be really changed.

Well lets's see. My friend just had a bone marrow transplant from her brother. The Drs told her she will now have his DNA. Should I tell her husband and kids that she is now a man because her DNA says so?

The narrow-minded oopinions on this thread are making me shake my head. Unless you are a transgendered person, you cannot understand what it's like. just like you can't understand what it is like to be black or a woman or a man or gay or straight if you are not those things. Doesn't mean those different from us need our pity or sympathy just the chance to live their lives just like everyone else. I will say that you never know what the future holds in store for you or your loved ones so a little bit of compassion could go a long way.


Now I am off to have a nice whipped cream vodka cocktail or 4.

 

[Magpie]

Actually they take male hormones and try to increase the size of the ******** to act as a *****. I guess that is one female part they want to keep for that reason. Yes, I think it is weird, gross and abnormal. Don't care what you think, that is just MY opinion and I'm not afraid to own it.

That's because it's the SAME darn part. Did you know that up until recently doctors used to decide whether a baby was a boy or a girl by MEASURING it? Yep, they whip out a ruler and if it's above a certain length then the baby's a boy with a ***** that's too small. If it's below a certain length then the baby's a girl with ******** that's too big.

And then the baby gets surgery to "fix" them!

Sometimes the doctors get it right, sometimes they get it wrong. One famous doctor even said, "It's easier to create an innie than an outie," so he always liked to err on the side of female.

Nowadays, modern surgeons try to look at the baby's hormone levels and chromosomes to figure it out, but even then they sometimes can't tell for sure. And the cost of being wrong, heck even the cost of being right and dealing with the tons of complications that typically result from trying to surgically alter an infant, are horrendous.

And I really don't know why people keep insisting Chaz is an XX, when they know nothing about that person's medical history. Or brain structures. Or anything else.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

How about this situation?:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-09-10/news/17931933_1_caster-semenya-test-results-photo-spread

Oh, I can't wait to see the responses. I'm guessing that this person's existence is fine, as long as certain people don't have to SEE this person, as they feel is their "right"? Or some sort of definitive determination of this person's gender, one way or another, despite science saying otherwise?

 

[Magpie]

How about this situation?:



http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-09-10/news/17931933_1_caster-semenya-test-results-photo-spread

This is where I have to quote my mentally challenged brother:
We're all God's children.

I felt SO bad for this poor girl - can you just imagine growing up in a dirt poor town, NEVER suspecting you're anything other than female (because for goodness sakes, you've got girly bits!), running your heart out to make something of yourself, only to be told - while still a teenager! - that you're not a girl after all. You're also not fertile. You'll never have children. And by the way, your career as a runner is over.

Me, I would have been suicidal. I am SO glad to hear that her country is supporting her.

 

[punkin]

How about this situation?:



http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-09-10/news/17931933_1_caster-semenya-test-results-photo-spread

This is where I have to quote my mentally challenged brother:
We're all God's children.

The Olympic committee stopped gender testing after the Atlanta Olympics because 8 female athletes tested male, but these results were later reversed after appeals including physical examinations. These tests are simply not the determinant of maleness/femaleness. The subject is just too complex. BTW, Semenya has been allowed to compete because for all intents and purposes she IS female.

 

[Uncle Remus]

The Olympic committee stopped gender testing after the Atlanta Olympics because 8 female athletes tested male, but these results were later reversed after appeals including physical examinations. These tests are simply not the determinant of maleness/femaleness. The subject is just too complex. BTW, Semenya has been allowed to compete because for all intents and purposes she IS female.

And back in 1977 (the dark ages ) Renee Richards was allowed to compete:

RICHARD RASKIND HAD BEEN captain of Yale’s tennis team and enjoyed some success on the American amateur circuit. He went to medical school, became an ophthalmologist, served in the United States Navy, married, gained a pilot’s license, and competed in the US Open. Then, at age 41, after 10 years of psychoanalysis and a divorce, he underwent a sex change operation and emerged as Dr Renée Richards.

Renée Richards moved to California and joined a new medical practice. But when she was recognized playing in the women’s section of a local tennis tournament, the press attention became overwhelming. At this point, she decided to become a professional tennis player, on the women’s tour. When several women pros complained of what they thought would be unfair competition, the resulting fracas was only settled by a 1977 New York State Supreme Court decision, ruling that, because of her sex reassignment surgery (SRS), she was indeed legally a woman.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447863/

 

[Wall-E1]

Sorry I'm late. I just breezed through a few pages of this thread to get the general gist of what's going on. I have to say, I'm shocked! If I'm understanding this correctly, Bono from U2 has decided to change his gender and is now being rooted on by Cher. Are they dating? I had no idea. And why does Bono want a sex change? Is it because Cher prefers to have a female partner? Doesn't he realize that no matter what gender he changes to, he will still retain his Irish DNA? And what does all of this have to do with Nancy Grace?!?!? I'm a little confused.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Sorry I'm late. I just breezed through a few pages of this thread to get the general gist of what's going on. I have to say, I'm shocked! If I'm understanding this correctly, Bono from U2 has decided to change his gender and is now being rooted on by Cher. Are they dating? I had no idea. And why does Bono want a sex change? Is it because Cher prefers to have a female partner? Doesn't he realize that no matter what gender he changes to, he will still retain his Irish DNA? And what does all of this have to do with Nancy Grace?!?!? I'm a little confused.

Oh no, you read thru it too fast, there's no grace in here.

 

[declansdad]

Oh no, you read thru it too fast, there's no grace in here.

Nancy Grace offends me. I don't live in the US but would that still violate my rights as a Canadian to have to listen to shrill harpies go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on?

 

[Uncle Remus]

Nancy Grace offends me. I don't live in the US but would that still violate my rights as a Canadian to have to listen to shrill harpies go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on?

Wanna start a social movement? I'll help ya!

 

[FireDancer]

I felt SO bad for this poor girl - can you just imagine growing up in a dirt poor town, NEVER suspecting you're anything other than female (because for goodness sakes, you've got girly bits!), running your heart out to make something of yourself, only to be told - while still a teenager! - that you're not a girl after all. You're also not fertile. You'll never have children. And by the way, your career as a runner is over.

Me, I would have been suicidal. I am SO glad to hear that her country is supporting her.

This situation is a bit different than normal because Semenya is a professional athlete. I follow track & field pretty closely (I am DVRing every night of the World Championships going on in Daegu right now) and in her particular situation the IAAF really had no choice but to test. If you have ever seen her run you can tell she is built a bit differently than all of her competitors. I realize it will come off as mean but she really does look like a man who had breasts added. Her muscle structure, her form, everything.

In endurance sports men and women don't compete head to head because physiologically it wouldn't be fair. If a person is both sexes and that increases the level of male hormones to a point where it is no longer a fair competition because of those hormones the governing body would have to eliminate that athlete.

It was a very bad situation and was finally resolved and as a PP stated she is in Daegu right now competing. At the same time this is such a rare occurrence that I hardly think it should be used to prove a point.

Nancy Grace offends me. I don't live in the US but would that still violate my rights as a Canadian to have to listen to shrill harpies go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on?

I question the sanity of just about anyone who isn't at least a little offended by Nancy Grace. I'm actually a little bit glad Casey Anthony was found not guilty for no other reason than it annoyed her so badly.

 

[declansdad]

Wanna start a social movement? I'll help ya!

Maybe be could start the "Shrill Harpies" Facebook page and invite her to be the administrator.

 

[crashbb]

This situation is a bit different than normal because Semenya is a professional athlete. I follow track & field pretty closely (I am DVRing every night of the World Championships going on in Daegu right now) and in her particular situation the IAAF really had no choice but to test. If you have ever seen her run you can tell she is built a bit differently than all of her competitors. I realize it will come off as mean but she really does look like a man who had breasts added. Her muscle structure, her form, everything.

In endurance sports men and women don't compete head to head because physiologically it wouldn't be fair. If a person is both sexes and that increases the level of male hormones to a point where it is no longer a fair competition because of those hormones the governing body would have to eliminate that athlete.

It was a very bad situation and was finally resolved and as a PP stated she is in Daegu right now competing. At the same time this is such a rare occurrence that I hardly think it should be used to prove a point.

There is a (somewhat) similar story in the world of mountain bike racing. She is a post-operative trans woman and there was much debate when she started competing (as a woman). She was eventually allowed to compete as a woman (they followed the rules set by the IOC), but it is still (or was a few years ago - not sure if she is still competing) a major controversy.

 

[Goofyluver]

Chaz Bono can scream to the top of the trees that she is a man now, doesn't make it so.

She can legally change her name, take male hormones, have a mastectomy, hysterectomy and try to grow man parts. Doesn't change the fact her DNA is female and will ALWAYS be female.

Yes, I teach my kids it is stupid to try to change things that can't be changed. If they asked me about Chaz Bono, I would tell them she needs sympathy and pity because she couldn't love who she was, she was trying to always change what can never be really changed.

Yea, some folks are definitely lost causes too.

Sorry I'm late. I just breezed through a few pages of this thread to get the general gist of what's going on. I have to say, I'm shocked! If I'm understanding this correctly, Bono from U2 has decided to change his gender and is now being rooted on by Cher. Are they dating? I had no idea. And why does Bono want a sex change? Is it because Cher prefers to have a female partner? Doesn't he realize that no matter what gender he changes to, he will still retain his Irish DNA? And what does all of this have to do with Nancy Grace?!?!? I'm a little confused.

OMG.










Why did I have to work today? This thread would have been so much more entertaining than the meetings I suffered through. And this thread comes with alcohol.

 

[cornflake]

Actually they take male hormones and try to increase the size of the ******** to act as a *****. I guess that is one female part they want to keep for that reason. Yes, I think it is weird, gross and abnormal. Don't care what you think, that is just MY opinion and I'm not afraid to own it.

Someone not interested in the surgical option may have that as a side effect of male hormones.

However, yes, there is a surgical procedure that many people choose. It's not as advanced as the procedure for male-to-female, but there it is. The male-to-female procedure is apparently quite hard to tell the difference.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I look at pictures of him now and it almost makes me cry. He looks every inch a man. Can you imagine how good it must feel to finally look like the gender you've known you are all along. More power to him.

 

[FireDancer]

He looks every inch a man.

Well, there are a few inches that aren't quite.








That's just a joke people.