Most Disney Princess films don’t need villains

NiceBlue

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There are now 13 original Disney Princess films from 1937s “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs” to 2021s “Raya and the Last Dragon.” Elsa and Anna from 2013s “Frozen” are many times included with the Official Princesses so that makes 14. They each have villains of sometype, but only four really need them in the sense there would be no story if it wasn’t for the villains. If it wasn’t for their evil stepmothers Snow White and Cinderella would have lived happy lives. Also, if it wasn’t for Maleficent Aurora would have lived a happy carefree life as would have Rapunzel if it wasn’t for Mother Gothel. However, in the ten other stories there are engaging plot lines even without the villains thus these ten don’t need villains. Plus Disney has been changing the importance nature of the villain since before 2012s “Brave”

From just about the very beginning of the 1989 “Little Mermaid” Ariel wanted to go to the surface “Up where they walk, up where they run
Up where they stay all day in the sun.” This is even before she knows Prince Eric even existed. The dramatic tension is between her desire for the surface, land world and her father’s forbidding her to leave the sea. Not only is the villain Ursla not needed for that, but neither is the prince.

Belle in the 1991 “Beauty and the Beast” sings “I want adventure in the great wide somewhere, I want it more than I can tell.” The dramatic tension in this case is not between Belle and her father and not even between Belle and Gaston. Gaston, the real villain, is just an addition “To this poor provincial town” that she wants to leave. The beast is not the villain.

Like Ariel and Belle, Jasmine, in the film Aladdin. wants adventure, but in her case her father refuses to let her leave the palace. The three protagonists want freedom - Aladdin from poverty, the Genie from the lamp and Jasmine from the Palace and being a Princess. That provided dramatic tension in the film without Jafar.

The dramatic tension in the 1995 film Pocahontas is the meeting of two cultures and two races and the question as to would they get along or not. Judy Kuhn singing “Colors of the Wind” as Pocahontas to John Smith shows that very well. “You think the only people who are people Are the people who look and think like you?” Governor Ratcliffe as the villain is not needed for this to be shown.

Even without the Huns invading China there would be dramatic tension in the 1998 film Mulan, with the title character’s attempt to be herself and still not disappoint her family or society. As Mulan, Lea Salonga sings “Now I see,
That if I were truly to be myself, I would break my family's heart.” The resolution to this tension is for her to be herself.

After her father has died fighting in the First World War, Tiana works hard to preserve his memory by opening the restaurant that was his dream. This is the dramatic tension in the story and would be there even if Tiana had not turned into a frog. It is the case that the title The Princess and the Frog (2009) would not fit if she and the prince did not become frogs, but the story could have explained that without a villain.

The 2012 film “Brave” is primarily about the relationship between the two female protagonists, Merida and her mother Elinor. This is the main source of dramatic tension in the story. In addition there is Merida’s not wanting to marry and her interest in activities such as riding and archery. The villain Mor’du almost seems like an afterthought.

In a way 2016s Moana is the reverse of 1989s “Little Mermaid.” In the latter King Titian demands that his daughter Ariel not go out of the Ocean and in the former Chief Tui demands that his daughter Moana not go out to the Ocean. This is the dramatic tension, Moana’s desire to sail over the ocean against her father's refusal to allow her to do that. There is some question as to who is the villain in this film. Possible candidates are Tamatoa and the Kakamora, but they are dealt with early in the film. Also, there is Maui, who acts at times as a villain, but becomes a good guy by the end. The lava monster Te Ka, appears as a villain, causing destruction and trying to kill Moana, but she is one aspect of Te Fiti, the kind, life-giving being. Te Ka transforms back into Te Fiti, when Moana talks calmly and with concern to her. This resolves the story. Te Fiti/Te Ka, is reformed.

The dramatic tension in the 2021 film “Raya and the Last Dragon” is the distrust among the various nations. They are able to end the scourge of the Druun only when they begin to trust each other. This Raya does over her journey. Even Namaari, at the end, realizes this and joins them. The Druun simply emphases the importance of their cooperation. The Druun are not the traditional type of villain in that they “are a mindless plague” without thought and without awareness. Also, they don’t kill anyone. Everyone who the Druun turns to stone comes back to life at the end.

With the 2013 Frozen the dramatic tension is the break between the two sisters Elsa and Anna. This happens early in the film before Hans of the Southern Isles, the villain in this story, even appears and would have existed even without him. It was the love and concern Elsa felt for Anna that formed the tension in the first place and the love and concern Anna felt for Elsa that resolved this tension at the end.

By writing “Most Disney Princess films don’t need villains” doesn’t mean that Disney Princess films would be better without villains. Better is a subjective term. One person might feel that films with villains are better while others might feel the opposite. What it does mean is that many of these films have complex messages behind them and not just a simple good vs evil plot. They delve into issues that are more uncertain - issues like relationships between parents and children, where a parent feels they know what is best and a child having their own desires or people who are unsatisfied with what society expects of them or the distrust between cultures and races or conflicts between siblings or challenges a person may face in obtaining their goals in the world.

Tom,
 
Anna isn't a princess, she's the queen.

And I'd argue that at least The Little Mermaid needs Ursula, and Aladdin needs Jafar, to make the movies. They might have some conflict without the villians, but they'd have been pretty darn boring without them. Not enough tension or arc.
 
Nah, Disney got scared that the old scary villains from fairytales scarred children for life, so they had to get rid of the evil evil characters. We now need to have 'complex' characters and 'surprise' villains. Without great villain songs.

Most Disney movies, no matter how 'complex', are still a regular 12 step hero journey. And a hero's journey needs something or someone to fight against. And it works better, if that something is personified. Hence Ratcliff, hence Shan Yu, hench Clayton. They are personifications of the evil thing our hero is fighting against.

Without a well written villain throwing the hero all kinds of curve balls, stories usually get boring.

You leave out characters like Maleficent, the Evil Queen from Snow White, Lady Tremaine. They controlled their leads in all kinds of ways, leading the character to react. They set something in motion. These stories had passive leading ladies (as in line with the time they were written in). They needed their villains to start their story.

Ursula adds a ticking time bomb to the story.

Gaston is a mirror image of the Beast and without him throwing Belle and Maurice into the cellar... where would we be? The story would be over after the song Beauty and the Beast. Belle goes to find her father, and they live happily ever after.

Without Jafar, Aladdin wouldn't find the Genie.

What is Hunchback without Frollo? Lion King without Scar?

You've picked out some messy villains. Dr. Facilier has a messy plotline and motivation, but he does bring something extra to the story with his deal with Naveen. And Friends on the Other Side is the most memorable song.

With Brave, Frozen, Raya, Moana Disney has entered a new era in which they tried to reinvent the villain, but they usually fail. Because it's not that easy to create a compelling villain.
 
Anna isn't a princess, she's the queen.

And I'd argue that at least The Little Mermaid needs Ursula, and Aladdin needs Jafar, to make the movies. They might have some conflict without the villians, but they'd have been pretty darn boring without them. Not enough tension or arc.

Not until Frozen 2.

I do agree that TLM needs Ursula, because what else would happen? Ariel would yearn for living on land and her father won't let her. Disney doesn't want the father to be the villain.
 

No, but we do need a sequel to Raya and the Last Dragon, or at least a spinoff, just because Sisu is my favorite Disney character of all time now, right up there with Bolt, Robin Hood and Meeko.
 
The best part of MANY Disney films are the villains. I would argue some of them are more well liked than the protagonist (ex. Maleficent and Aurora).

I agree that not every movie needs one but the villains are part of what made Disney films special. There's a reason why SO many people (myself included) were begging Disney to make movies with a legit villain again.
 
The best part of MANY Disney films are the villains. I would argue some of them are more well liked than the protagonist (ex. Maleficent and Aurora).

I agree that not every movie needs one but the villains are part of what made Disney films special. There's a reason why SO many people (myself included) were begging Disney to make movies with a legit villain again.

Hades is my favorite just because James Woods is so incredible. Nevermind the movie Hercules, his work in Kingdom Hearts was fantastic.


The first ten seconds is just fabulous voicework.
 
Hades is my favorite just because James Woods is so incredible. Nevermind the movie Hercules, his work in Kingdom Hearts was fantastic.


The first ten seconds is just fabulous voicework.
Hercules is another example of a movie where the villain is WAY more interesting than the protagonist. No hate to Hercules himself but Hades is awesome.
 
Need means that something is required. Clearly In the ten stories spoken about here there is dramatic tension, conflict and issues that need to be resolved without having a villain. Dramatic tension, conflict and issues that need to be resolved are elements that can make a story. So, while people might prefer a villain that is not the same as saying the stories need or require a villain.

Tom,
 
Dizneegirl, what is it that you don’t agree with - that need means required, that there is dramatic tension, conflict and issues that need to be resolved in those films without a villain or that those elements can make a story?

Tom
 
See my post above. At least two of your examples would be very different, and very mundane, even boring, without the villians.
 
Dizneegirl, you make a claim, but do not explain how the stories “would be very different, and very mundane, even boring, without the villains.”

Tom,
 
No, but we do need a sequel to Raya and the Last Dragon, or at least a spinoff, just because Sisu is my favorite Disney character of all time now, right up there with Bolt, Robin Hood and Meeko.
I feel that with Raya they should have made it a series. I had a feeling they created a whole backstory for this world, but a lot had to be cut for time reasons.
I want to know what happened between the scenes when Raya was a child and then the next time we see her in a desert. What happened during those years?
 
Karin and Foxhound, strange they had Sisu die and then come alive again, but didn’t explain that. It seems only one character actually died during the film. The dragons were beautiful and kind beings.

Tom,
 
Nah, Disney got scared that the old scary villains from fairytales scarred children for life, so they had to get rid of the evil evil characters. We now need to have 'complex' characters and 'surprise' villains. Without great villain songs.

With Brave, Frozen, Raya, Moana Disney has entered a new era in which they tried to reinvent the villain, but they usually fail. Because it's not that easy to create a compelling villain.

That's what I liked about Wish, the villain is a legitimate villain and it's not really a surprise (well, it's a very early one if you haven't seen the trailer). That said, there's nothing wrong with trying to reinvent how the villain is portrayed, but they don't need to do it all the time. I would say that Moana was pretty successful as a movie and a story, moreso than some of the other attempts. Raya clearly does have a villain though, it's just that the movie doesn't treat her as one. They tried to hedge too much with that one.
 
Frozen (2013) was the most if not one of the most popular “Princess” films (Elsa and Anna were princesses when the film started) and Hans (the villain) was downplayed. He did not cause the problem, was not the one who froze Anna’s heart and only appeared as a villain during the last part of the film. Also, “Moana” was a popular film and didn’t have any unambiguous villain. “Brave” also was a box office success and the villain seemed to have been an afterthought, something tacked on because someone felt they “needed” a villain. Disney is moving away from traditional, unambiguous villains and its Princess films are still popular. Perhaps the worst performing of the princess type film was “The Black Cauldron.” And it had a very clear, very evil villain.

Tom,
 
Brian, before I saw “Wish” I had read a number of negative comments about it, so I went into the theater with low expectations, but was pleasantly surprised to find that it wasn’t so bad (not the best). The villain is a legitimate, more traditional villain, but that is not what I liked about it. What I liked was the friendship among Asha and the “seven dwarfs” her seven friends. I also liked the star and at the end that Amaya joins the rebels against her husband and that Dahlia (Doc) is shown with a cane, reflecting Jennifer Kumiyama’s (Dahlia’s voice actor) use of a wheelchair. Further, Asha appears so hopeful and positive. However, Variety stated that “Wish” misfired in its opening weekend, extending Disney’s bleak box office fortunes.

Tom,
 
That's what I liked about Wish, the villain is a legitimate villain and it's not really a surprise (well, it's a very early one if you haven't seen the trailer). That said, there's nothing wrong with trying to reinvent how the villain is portrayed, but they don't need to do it all the time. I would say that Moana was pretty successful as a movie and a story, moreso than some of the other attempts. Raya clearly does have a villain though, it's just that the movie doesn't treat her as one. They tried to hedge too much with that one.
Wish spoilers ahead . . .

I also enjoyed the villain arc in Wish. He starts out as a tolerable but charming know-it-all who likes to be the center of attention and then we got to see him gradually becoming more evil over the course of the movie until he was a full blown classic villain by the end. It felt like the opposite of character growth, since his growth was a negative instead of a positive. But I feel he was needed in the story and we needed to see how he went from good(ish) to evil and how that impacted the other characters storylines. I read that initially Queen Amaya was also supposed to be a villain, but I liked it better with her discovering Magnifico’s descent into evil and aligning herself with good rather than join him.

I don’t think every movie needs a villain but sometimes that’s the best way to introduce drama into the storyline, especially in a fairytale.
 













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