More WDW CM confirmation of COASTER KINGDOM

[mmdisney]

My wife and I just got back from a week at WDW. When we checked in last week
very very late (around 3:30 AM after flight delays) at the Animal Kingdom Lodge we were
greeted at the front desk by one of the three managers. He said he has worked at many other resorts with his 15 years at the company and seemed to know WAY LOTS on the property and that future plans, restaurants, etc....

Well, there was NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE around, just me, my wife, and the night manager that checked us in in the HUGE lobby of the Animal Kingdom Lodge...

Well, we talked for probably an hour about things at WDW, restaurants, his experience, his feelings about the company as a whole, etc..... Then we got off on rumors on the internet and how so many internet people have it wrong..... My wife uttered something under her breath like "yeah Beastly Kingdom believers" or something.... and he was real quick to come back with, NO, "Beastly Kingdom is a bad rumor, it is not going to happen, Coaster Kingdom--- hehehehe" and got this huge GRIN on his face.

He then looked around and then said very quietly, I really shouldn;t be talking about this but do you know where it is going to be.... and I started talking about the rumors I had seen here on the net about back behind the lodge, and he was like "No way! It's going to be across from EPCOT, where the studios was supposed to be." He went into very minor details about how it was a GO and should be announced very soon formally and it will be much like IOA in the theming of the coasters. I am thinking from what he said the rides will be themed after Disney Villans. Naming the coasters like Hades, Malificient, etc.....

The park as a whole will be somewhat of a Thrill Seeking park that will really bring any lost business of the IOA crowd. I really trust what this particluar CM told us and he was VERY VERY serious about seeing the plans and knowing who was building the stuff, etc......

Anyways, that was just our experience with a very well respected CM....

Marc / Melinda

 

[sandro]

Great information ! I hope this to be true. The informations seems very interesting. I just hope Disney design the coasters to ALL people. I can not FIT at Universal coasters. Seems to me they design the coasters at universal for people to ride after a long, long. long period of abstinence. Hope Disney keep this in mind during the project.

 

[olena]

Oh I hope so... I love thrill rides and I love Disney's themes. If done right, it could be a dream come true for me...

 

[Captain Crook]

Not to be a stick-in-the-mud, and this is just my opinion, but it seems that a rumor from a CM (albeit a higher ranking CM) doesn't hold much water coming on the heels of both Al Weiss & Paul Pressler confirming the coming of BK...Further, Pressler made it quite clear (in the LP interview) that a new gate was still a few years off...

 

[johare]

Captain, this may be one of the few times, but I agree with you 100%. No manager at any level is likely to know ANYTHING about a 5th park before the public does. Something like that can effect the stock price of the company and only people with a geniune need to know would have any information prior to a public announcement.

That said, I really hope that Disney doesn't build a coaster park. IOA already does a fine job of providing a well themed park with plenty of thrill rides and Disney should put a little more time into their existing parks...especially building Beastly Kingdom at the Lake Buena Vista Zoo....err, I mean Animal Kingdom.

 

[toefungus]

There's no way that Coaster Kingdom will ever be a Disney Park. It just sounds like another CM yanking your chain again.

 

[one2escape]

Hi new user! going to Disney in November staying at the All Stars. Captain Cook said that the boss type people said that another park is a couple of years off. The question is how long does it to design and make a park?

Imho Disney does need a coaster park similar to IOA. They would have to becareful not to get caught up in a war for the best ride. A all round coaster park, something for everyone, would be the way to go

 

[WorknFires]

I love roller coasters... really! But, I'll be the evil person here. I hope Disney doesn't build a coaster park. Carnival rides have made California the flop that it is. I wouldn't mind if it could be themed well but lets face it... it's hard to pay attention to theming with your eyelids stretched back over your forehead. I ride roller coasters when I go places that have them (I'm going to Six Flags in St Louis MO at the end of next month) but when I get to Orlando, well.....there just isn't another park in my opinion. I can't leave Disney. I don't want to. Everything I could ever need, I find there. I don't know a whole lot about the "planned" Beastly Kingdom but I'd rather they completed what they started at AK and maybe spend the extra bucks on a new monorail system, huh toefungus?!

Cheryl

 

[wdwguide]

Originally posted by WorknFires
(I'm going to Six Flags in St Louis MO at the end of next month)
Cheryl [/B]

Please say hello to The Boss from me... I love that coaster!

 

[donald@home]

Not that I am agreeing or disagreeing with the manager at AKL, but Johare, you are wrong about managers at Disney not knowing anything before the public. Back in the early 90s I stayed at a friends house in Orlando. He was at the manager level at Disney. I don't remember exactly what his job title was, but it had nothing to do with park planning or design. He came home from work one day and announced that Disney is planning a new park. The details are sketchy but it has something to do with Live Animals. It was years before anything was officially announced. So you never know.

Personally I hope they don't go forward with the coaster park (while I enjoy Rock and Roller coaster, the theming and story are a bit thin). I agree they should finish/fix/improve/update what they have now.

 

[Another Voice]

Disney is a vast corporation with almost as many grapevines as it has internal feuds between rival divisions. By some accounts, there are more than a dozen proposals for new theme parks at the Walt Disney World property – along with dozens of the other mini-gates such as water parks. It is inevitable that some of the design concepts will start to be talked about. And grapevines being grapevines – along with a dash of wishful thinking – “plans” can easily change into “it’s a for sure GO”. By the time the rumor gets to Florida, the initial plan could have been changed or cancelled outright.

The “coaster park” concept started several years ago as a response to Universal’s Islands of Adventure. Universal’s plan was to appeal to teenagers, who in turn were supposed to convince the rest of the family to spend at least a day at the new park. Disney knows it has troubles with the teenage market and the thought of skateboard riding Jason dragging his parents’ wallet off property for a day is very scary. The design goal was to come up with something fast, quick and cheap if Islands was a success.

According to rumors, the most likely-to-be-built concept involved a collection of purchased, off-the-shelf thrill rides of varying types collected into a few “themed” areas. A major wooden-like roller coaster would have anchored the “boardwalk” area. A steel coaster for a “villains” or high-tech area. Free fall attractions for an “extreme sports” area, and kiddie coasters in a pure-Disney themed area. The plans were always very loose because the true design work couldn’t begin until a budget is given. But one thing was also sure – the place had to be fast and cheap to build. “Themeing” was going to be painting the track purple and placing a sign up front to declare that the “some assembly required” ride was now the Hydra from ‘Hercules’.

What happened? First, Islands turned out to be less of a threat to Disney than had been feared, so the company had no reason to keep the wallets from wandering. Second, Animal Kingdom opened and drove a knife into WDW’s business plans. Instead of making people stay longer at Disney, the new park simply reallocated the time that people were already spending without any increase. Adding yet another park would make the situation even worse. Third, the cruise line “extension” concept crashed and burned, further eroding attendance projections (remember you were supposed to take a three day cruise “as part of” your WDW trip, not “in place of”). Lastly, the “build it and they will come” mentality was used on a new park in California -- which in six months has now become a bigger mess than Euro Disney was in both dollar terms and on estimates on the costs to correct the problems. All together, it means that Disney’s enthusiasm for “full-day” theme parks is very, very low at the moment.

On the other hand, there is growing evidence that Universal is starting to dig into WDW’s attendance (all those people who are not going to the Animal Kingdom do not appear to be going elsewhere on property either). There might yet be a need to keep make sure Jason’s wallet sticks around. Not all day, of course, just for three to six hours or so. Just like ‘Blizzard Beach’ does. Hmmmm, imagine a ‘BB’ sized “half-day park” with about six attractions. But that’s another rumor…..

 

[WorknFires]

Uh oh Another Voice. You're gonna get things started again about off the shelf! LOL

Cheryl

 

[airlarry!]

AV:

At one time, the rumor mill had the ole Ragin Cajun water park dead in the...uh...water. Are they perhaps dusting off a new water park idea.

Anyone who has been knows that the water parks are jammed packed from May till whenever, and another water park would be welcomed.

 

[larworth]

Hey AV

Can you elaborate a little more on the IOA legacy. I’ve been wondering what Disney's take on IOA is now. Are they really perceiving this as a serious competitive threat?

I think most of us were surprised when they were so passive prior to it’s opening. If AK was going to serve as any kind of preemptive move they sure wouldn’t have cut BK from the plans. No, seemingly content to sit back and wait to see it's impact.

Then we had all those early stories about the huge blunder Universal made. That they overspent and could never hope to get a return on their investment. Many said this perception had ripple effects on Disney’s ambitions for DCA. That they were afraid to duplicate the IOA mistake and got even more conservative.

Also, the tepid response to IOA in it’s early days may have cast some doubt on the saturation point of Orlando. With soft AK attendance and now IOA’s slow start did this signal the end of the Orlando appetite for more vacation days?

Now I’m sure Disney would wait a year or two before it reached any hard conclusions. If they say their experience shows it takes a year before a new Disney park starts getting accepted, than what would they allow for a Universal park (don’t tell me they forgot to factor this into their thinking again). It does seem that the park is picking up some momentum.

All of this has been compounded by the Vivendi purchase and their yet undefined strategy. Will they continue to invest, milk, or resell this business.

How is IOA’s success viewed today by upper management?

 

[Another Voice]

The low key reaction to Islands of Adventure was the result of the minimal impact of Universal Studios had on WDW years before. Eisner rushed (really rushed) the Disney/MGM Studios into being to beat Universal’s park. Disney’s park was a success from the moment it opened the gates* and Universal’s opening (plagued with serious operational issues) never impacted Disney at all. When Universal announced a second park, Eisner saw no reason to “waste money” if there wasn’t going to be any downside. There were contingency plans drawn up for both new parks and for major additions to the existing parks – but they were never funded.

The problem with Islands is that Orlando really is saturated with theme parks and the Mouse casts too dark of a shadow. Islands was not unique enough to draw the attention it needed to compete against Disney. But over the last couple of years, Universal has done a very good job about bringing attention to Islands and it is starting to be noticed. It’s also been gaining a good reputation as Disney has been loosing theirs. Evidence is also suggesting that Islands is the primary competition for Animal Kingdom and guests are choosing to leave the property rather than spend a day at AK or additional time in the other three parks.

Now that Universal is starting to pose a threat, Disney simply isn’t in the mood to spend money to defend it’s position. And Vivendi still doesn’t know what it’s going to do with their theme parks so The Mouse does not see them as a threat for the time being. Disney, I think, will wait the situation out and spend it’s money on cable channels instead of theme parks.


* Note: that bit about Disney parks taking a year to become accepted is wrong (what I really want to say is that it’s a lie). It was floated by the Company to explain away California Adventure, but it has no basis in fact.

 

[larworth]

"Oh yeah, we just remembered that it always takes a season for a new Disney park to catch on, so don't worry about those low attendance numbers for DCA. Boy what were we thinking."

And I bet right after that sudden revelation at the analyst's meeting they sent an email to OLC advising them to create a contingency plan for the soon to be weak opening at TDS. You know, because Disnay parks always open well below expectations.

"What, is that you say. TDS is already completely sold out for the first two months of operation. Geeee, I don't get it."

 

[anim8or98]

Just plan on Beastly Kingdom for 2005. Plan for a great new E-Ride, a show, a shop, and hopefully a restaurant. Plan for it behind Rainforest Cafe. It has been approved, and DAK Lodge Manager should really think before he says things. Most likely, he too heard a rumor (probably two or three years ago) himself, and just hasn't been told the idea has been dropped. Beastly Kingdom, however... It's to the point where I start to get angry when people treat it only as a rumor! I know.. I know, things can change at the drop of a hat, but I bet this is the next major announcement!

 

[HorizonsFan]

Evidence is also suggesting that Islands is the primary competition for Animal Kingdom and guests are choosing to leave the property rather than spend a day at AK or additional time in the other three parks.

It would be interesting to see this evidence.

Now that Universal is starting to pose a threat, Disney simply isn’t in the mood to spend money to defend it’s position.

Huh? How does a corporation have a "mood"?

 

[nats]

Disney is going to the dogs again. They are forgetting that WDW should be family entertainment. When the place first opened and for many years after WDW except for a few attractions, was a place where the whole family could stay together and enjoy the rides. Now it is completely the opposite. Now the thrill seekers can see everything and too bad about the majority. Why should a senior citizen or a disabled person go there, when they are treated like second rate citizens. The seventees and eighties were great times. The ninetees and later catered to Disney greed and not the satisfaction of the guests. Too bad the young could not see WDW at its best. if so then they would complain too.