More Rental Concerns

[PamOKW]

I really think DVC has to get a grip on the rental of points. Yes, members should be free to share with friends and relatives. Maybe it's even okay to provide a way for someone in an emergency to recoup some money on points that would be lost because banking deadlines are past. But, there is a post on the resort board from someone who is renting BWV points for next February. That means a non-DVC member will be getting a reservation (made by a DVC member) at the same time as BWV members and well before any other DVC person has a chance. Of course they also want to be sure they get a Boardwalk view and the best room. Maybe this fits through the loophole of rentals but I personally think it sounds like a rental business in progress and it stinks. JMHO.

 

[Bumpy]

I agree its not smelling to good to me either!

 

[wdwnut]

hi Pam: i agree as well. when we purchased into dvc, it was not with the intention of EVER renting our points. i can see some instances like the one you described that would make it necessary to rent points. possibly dvc could see which members are regularly making ressies with their points in other peoples' names. if there are a few members who haven't used their points in their names, but for other people, possibly they could be spoken to. this sounds like a bit of a boggling task though. i'm not sure if we or dvc have any real legal recourse though. maybe one of our legal members would know. dee

 

[SAKPEG99OKW]

Pam I also agree, who is this Gary K.D. and how does he have points available at OKW, BWV, and VB all at the same time. It sounds to me like a rental scam also. maybe we should bombard him with requests so it takes him months to get to everyone but no body rents. Then he'll miss all his windows..

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

OS-1976
AS-1994
AS-1996
PO/cruise-1999
OKW-08/00
OKW-05/01
BWV-12/01

 

[Firefighter Mickey]

Gary is a long time point renter, and many people have completed successful transactions with him.

I think people should be allowed to rent their points if they want to.

 

[DisneyHumbug]

Yes, he should be allowed to rent his points, but it's not fair if he rents out - say for a holiday week and I, as a DVC member, can't get anything - but a non-member gets to go during that busy time. Do you know what I mean?

FW 86,90,93,94
DxL 95,96,96(Apr&Aug),98
CR 00
CSR 01
OKW 01 can't wait!

 

[SAKPEG99OKW]

Gary is probalby a very respectful person. and most likely has completed every transaction he has entered without any compliants. But if he purchased DVC only to make money by renting then I feel that is wrong and should not be allowed. But that's only my opinion. Especially at three different resourts.....

Scott

OS-1976
AS-1994
AS-1996
PO/cruise-1999
OKW-08/00
OKW-05/01
BWV-12/01

 

[PamOKW]

I'm not referring to Gary or to any one particular renter. (I didn't even see the Gary posts). I just think the "system is broke" and DVC ought to fix it before it becomes a real problem.

 

[Beachangel]

OK so the guy rents his points out to non-members. Doesn't bother me - just pretend that the "member" is making the reservation. Would you be as angry if I let my sister use my points (no charge of course but a gift is in order!)? What the difference if someone is paying for points as opposed to giving points away?

"Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the THINKS you can think up, if only you try." Dr. Seuss

 

[Firefighter Mickey]

Getting back to the original concern expressed. I hope everyone does realize that lots of people that are non-members have the ability to rent at a DVC resort at the same time DVC members can start reserving.

Anytime someone picks up the phone and calls CRO for a cash reservation they are doing exactly the same thing as some non-member does when they rent points from a DVC member. The difference is that the points are probably being rented from DVD (the developer who retains 4% or more of the resort) rather than an individual. DVD certainly hopes to make some money off of these points, so how are the actions of the developer any different then the actions of an individual member?

 

[CarolMN]

(and not all of the members appear to agree that it is), how could it be "fixed" without spending a lot of money? I can't think of any "easy" solutions. Can anyone provide data that would show that this is a significant problem? So far, we seem to have only anecdotal evidence - from ebay or the Rent/Trade Board. Are these examples a big or small proportion of the total reservations? I wouldn't want my dues to increase just to find a small number of members who MAY be abusing the system. I say MAY because the rules do not clearly define "commercial" and every member is subject to the same reservation rules. If I don't call at the 11 month window and I don't get what I wanted, how do I know that I would have been the one to get it if only that "person who is renting" would play nice? Although there may be someone who didn't get his/her first choice when he/she called exactly at the 11 month window, I don't remember anyone posting here about that problem.

Just for the record, I have not rented out any points, nor do I intend to use them for anyone other than family. My main point is that I don't know how the situation could be "fixed" without spending a lot of money and without some kind of concensus of all the members. Considering that, I don't see what incentive DVC has to change anything.

 

[Jimbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Anytime someone picks up the phone and calls CRO for a cash reservation they are doing exactly the same thing as some non-member does when they rent points from a DVC member. The difference is that the points are probably being rented from DVD (the developer who retains 4% or more of the resort) rather than an individual. DVD certainly hopes to make some money off of these points, so how are the actions of the developer any different then the actions of an individual member?

[/quote]

Simple. When DVD sells, the profit benefits all members. When someone on eBay or wherever sells their points at, say, $18 per point only the seller benefits.

 

[PamOKW]

The "difference" is when it becomes a business. Someone using their membership for personal use will do a variety of things over a span of time. Vacation at different resorts, different times, maybe take a cruise, etc. Someone in the retnal business will call 11 months out for a prime vacation time (gets the most money for the rental) every single year, effectively taking one villa out of the mix every year. There is also little to no chance that that room will come back into availability as it might if it were a personal reservation and not a business. If it's one person doing this, maybe that works out okay. If it becomes 100-200 members doing this consistently it could be a problem. This type of rental business was just about non-existent until recently and now seems to be growing. It's something DVC couldn't really forsee at the outset but I think they should at least give the impact it has consideration. Maybe they already are.

Disney rents from the 4%. Members could never use that anyway. The other rentals come from members who are doing something else and have traded their points or for periods that have not had members sign-up at all. Disney doesn't grab from the initial 11 month pot. If this continues then we might as well go to the 1 month home resort advantage because everything will be booked at 11 months anyway.

 

[Firefighter Mickey]

Just a clarification for Jimbo; any rental money that DVD gets from its 4% ownership does not benefit the membership - it benefits only DVD. You are possibly confusing the DVD 4% ownership with the member breakage income - the breakage income happens when DVC decides that members probably won't be renting the accomodations and so they make them available for cash; this cash then is used to offset some of our dues.

So far I haven't seen any proof presented that individual members renting points (as a business or otherwise) have harmed the membership in any way.

 

[KNWVIKING]

JIMBO,WHEN DVD SELLS,DISNEY PROFITS,NOT THE MEMBERS.AS FOR SOMEONE RENTING PTS,LET HIM,THEY ARE HIS TO DO AS HE PLEASES.THIS WAS EVEN AN ADDED PERK MY DVD SALESMAN MENTIONED TO ME WHEN WE SIGNED.THE POINTS HAVE TO BE USED BY SOMEBODY ANYWAY.

 

[spiceycat]

when I first brought that was also discussed - it is legal and DVC did not have a problem with it then - when we (mother and I) used to get on the bus we were sometimes approached by people also from Ala who were renting points from someone else and wanted to know if I was interested. But I brought DVC (then only OKW) for my family and did not have enough points for them, so I answered sorry but no. I give my friends and family vacations at WDW - what better present. But some people did buy at DVC to sell not for their personal use, and that is all they want to do.

 

[ripleysmom]

I do think that, if we have members who join for the sole (or mostly sole) purpose of renting out their points, they should be made to sell their points backs to DVC at the going DVC purchase rate.

To me making a reservation at the 11 month mark only to rent it out smacks of commercial usage and should be judged as such. I particularly have a problem with it when these reservations are scarfed up for peak times and hard to get units.

I don't believe it would be very difficult to check to see if a DVC owner is using their points primarily for rentals. All DVC would have to do is see how many times the members names have been switched on the reservation. If the owner has not been the person who checked in at least a reasonable percentage of the time then they should be booted.

I hold nothing against the owner who rents out their reservation because they cannot go this year, or even rents out points but may not have the reservation made yet. But a systematic pattern of rentals utilizing peak times and hard to get units for profit should be, at the very least discouraged and at the most cause for revocation of DVC membership.

Kimberly-Lucas and Ripley's Mom

 

[nuthut]

Every DVC member has equal opportunity to make whatever reservation they desire at their home resort. Just pick up the phone and make that call and then you will not need to be complaining anymore. If you do not like the rules of your DVC membership, maybe you should sell it. Seems to be a real backlog of purchasers out there. I have checked and the DVC does not care if you rent all your points and never stay yourself. The person who is in that reserved room does not matter to them.

 

[Dean]

I'm not going to go over the entire info I've posted before but just a couple of points. First, DVC specifically states that renting points is OK. Second, how can anyone worry about what someone else is legally doing with their ownership. I would have to agree that renting something that wasn't available to the average MEMBERSHIP AT THAT RESORT would be questionable but anything obtained at the 11 month window would be reasonable. I also realize that the driving force is many times worry that one will miss out on their reservation while a renter is fat and happy at DVC, but don't see how that changes the facts.

Dean

 

[spiceycat]

I give my points to my friends and family - so I make the reservations in there names - how would you tell what is a gift vs a rental. You could not given the current system. Now when we have the tickets DVC wanted to know if the person staying had rented the points so they would not get the tickets. But whenever I made a reservations in someone else name, I was never once asked if this is a rental. Now when my guests were there, they might have been asked I don't know.