Mini Van and Tent Trailer Owners

[minnieandmickey]

We are looking at the pop up tent trailers. We have a 2004 Toyota Sienna with a tow package, it says it pulls 3500 lbs. We are looking at a Fleetwood that weighs 3000 lbs, but does the weight that the van pulls have to include the weight of the passangers inside? If so we would have to at least go to a 2500-2700 lb trailer and not to thrilled with the options of that. Any advice?

 

[Disney Campers]

the weight of the passangers inside

check the GVWR, this is the maximum weight for the van, once you add the weight of all the contents of the van (People and gear) and subtract it from the GVWR, the remaining number is the maximum for your trailer hitch weight, second figure you need is the GCWR, this is the total amount of the van, its contents and the trailer and its contents can not exceed.

GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
GCWR = Gross combination weight rating

visit www.irv2.com for many discussions on weights etc.

 

[tim5055]

OK, before I get into this, here is the "Legal Disclamer" form the Toyota web-site

Before towing, confirm your vehicle and trailer are compatible, hooked up properly and you have all necessary additional equipment. Do not exceed any Weight Ratings and review all instructions and cautions from your trailer hitch manufacturer and Toyota vehicle Owner's Manual. Note that the maximum amount you can tow depends on the total weight of any cargo, occupants and available equipment in the vehicle.

Additionally, the Toyota web-site does not list the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) or the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) for your vehicle. It states:

If you would like further towing and vehicle capacity information, please reference Trailer Towing in your vehicle’s Owner’s Manual index for the appropriate page numbers. You may also contact your local Toyota dealership for weight ratings and additional required equipment.
.

Now, as I don't have exact numbers I'll make some up to use as an example.

Lets say your vehicle has a GCWR (remember, this is the maximum of both the tow vehicle AND trailer) of 8,000 lbs. You subtract from that the weight of the Sienna (4,165 empty), passengers (500 lbs) and luggage (400 lbs). You are now down to 2,935 pounds that your trailer can weigh.

Now, with all that said remember you are talking about maximum numbers. You really don't want to push the limit.

I'm sorry, but my gut feeling is that you would be pushing the limits of the Sienna.

Another thing to keep in mind is that your vehicle looses power at altitude. Unless the engine is turbocharged, it will loose power with altitude. The typical power loss is 2-4% per 1,000 feet above sea level. So you won't notice in the first few thousand feet, but if you reach 8,000 feet, you cound be missing 20-30% of your horsepower at the very time you need it most.

Here are some pages/sites you may be intersted in:

Towing and Hitch Information (from my web page)

NCCNEPHCOFF (Nick-Neff-Cough) Northern Californai Pop Up Club

Southern California Popup Campers (SCCampers)

Pop UP Times Magazine (the only magazine for Pop Up Campers)


Check you owners manual in the towing section and let us know what the exact numbers are for the Sienna.

 

[Bichon Barb]

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but when we bought our Coleman Sunridge in 1998, we originally towed it with a 1995 Ford Windstar minivan. We took six trips (under one drive) with that setup, and we traded in the Windstar for a GMC Yukon. The Coleman was pretty heavy, and it was just too much for the Windstar, which started developing rattles and moans -- for lack of better terms.

 

[We4mickey]

I'm with you. We also had a 95 Windstar and pulled a Coleman Cheyenne. Ended up blowing the transmission in it. We now have a full size conversion van. No Problem there. You have to watch the weights and rear wheel drive seems to be better for towing than front wheel drive.

 

[jeffb66]

Hey Guys,
I would'nt recommend towing anything that heavy with a minivan. We have a 2003 Coleman Sedona that we tow with a 2002 Dodge Caravan. This Pop-up weights around 1600 empty. You have to consider the camping gear and people weight and that adds up pretty quick. We feel pretty comfortable with our set up. You also have to consider how it is going to drive going down the road with that much weight behind it. Hope this helps. There are alot of nice Pop-ups out there that are in your weight range. Good shopping.....Jeff

 

[minnieandmickey]

We went into the Toyota Dealership today. The new Siennas have a tow package added onto it, which means a bigger radiator and alternator. The serviceman said the Sienna will pull 3500lbs. you do not have to factor in the weights in the van, it has its own weight limit then it will pull another 3500lbs on top of that, but of course we are not about to over load the inside and still expect to pull the additional trailor. We figure we will get a trailor that is not over 2700 lbs just in case.

 

[Disney Campers]

you do not have to factor in the weights in the van, it has its own weight limit then it will pull another 3500lbs on top of that

this is a false statement, the tongue is carried ON the van, you do need to add the tongue weight as contents of the van, while this will not change the 3500 tow rating it needs to be factored in the GVWR of the van, tongue weight is usually 15 percent of the trailer weight, so a 2700 lb trailer should have a tongue weight of about 400 lbs. so while the trailer may weigh 2700 pounds your car is carrying 400 pounds of that weight and the trailer axle carries the rest

 

[tim5055]

Originally posted by minnieandmickey
We went into the Toyota Dealership today. The new Siennas have a tow package added onto it, which means a bigger radiator and alternator. The serviceman said the Sienna will pull 3500lbs. you do not have to factor in the weights in the van, it has its own weight limit then it will pull another 3500lbs on top of that, but of course we are not about to over load the inside and still expect to pull the additional trailor. We figure we will get a trailor that is not over 2700 lbs just in case.

Disney Campers is right on the money!!! The 3500 lb limit is only available if you do not exceed the Gross Combined Weight Rating. Additionally, as DC points out, the tongue weight is a weight that needs to be included in the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the van. If you fill up the van I'm sure you will exceed the GCWR and possibly the GVWR due to the tongue weight. And again I feel I need to point out, all of this is indicating that you will be pushing things to the limits. I feel you need to stay away from the limits if at all possible.

Let me be honest, I tow a Fleetwood Santa Fe that has a GVWR of 2550. For the last two season we towed with a Ford F-150 that had a GCWR of 11,500 Lb. We never even go close to that number when towing, but when in the mountains I could really feel the drag behind me. Trust me, if you pull a 3,000 lb trailer behind your Sienna you are going to feel it when you get to any hills at all.

Go back to the dealership and ask them to put it in writing that the 3500 does not include the van at all. I'm sure they will quickly figure out their error.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

I think you will be surprised at how quickly the weight of a 2700 lb trailer increases when you start adding all the extras we like to take camping. Things add up fast. In addition, watch out for dry weights. A lot of times the weights quoted by RV dealers are dry weights, and don't include accessories (like air conditioners, heaters, microwaves, frig, etc) and also don't include the weight of loaded propane tanks, water tanks, etc. If you can indeed pull 3500lbs, I think a 2700 lb camper is too much and you will most likely exceed that 3500 lb limit when it is loaded. Several years ago we had a Coleman which weighed in at 1700 lbs and pulled it with a Plymouth Voyager. It was as much trailer as I wanted to tow with that vehicle. I would look in the 1600 to 1800 lb category if it was me.

 

[We4mickey]

This is what they said for our Windstar 3500 lbs. Our camper is about 2700. We blew the transmission. I wouldn't do it.