Michael Moore, the Democrat Party, and their candidate...

[ElizK]

Interesting link. Why does this guy have the following he does, especially here in the US, if he thinks we're all stupid?

www.scaryjohnkerry.com/moore.htm

 

[Nebsky]

Makes ya wonder thats for sure.

 

[ThreeCircles]

Look around you. Look at the current climate in the U.S. right now.

Here's just one example:

Currently, the U.S. Congress is debating an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would segregate and entire section of our population based on sexual orientation. An amendment that would deny rights to millions and millions of Americans. An amendment that is being pushed and supported by w.

Looking back at history we can easily see that divisions of this kind don't work. Separate but equal failed. Abraham Lincoln wrote:


"A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure permanently half-slave and half-free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved - I do not expect the house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other." --Lincoln's 'House-Divided' Speech in Springfield, Illinois, June 16, 1858.

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, --"Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others"


And yet, here we are in 2004 attempting to divide the nation again. Sounds pretty moronic to me.

Could it be that these are the things MM is speaking about?

 

[ElizK]

Disagreeing with someone's viewpoint doesn't make them a moron. While I disagree with the point you brought up, I certainly don't think you're stupid for thinking that way. Michael Moore seems to be saying "You're a complete idiot if you don't agree with my way of thinking." That seems significantly more divisive than a gay marriage ban.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Michael Moore is not the official spokesperson for the Democratic party! LOL!

I can't access the link........

A lot of people are going to see the movie, though, aren't they............

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
Look around you. Look at the current climate in the U.S. right now.

Here's just one example:

Currently, the U.S. Congress is debating an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would segregate and entire section of our population based on sexual orientation. An amendment that would deny rights to millions and millions of Americans. An amendment that is being pushed and supported by w.

Looking back at history we can easily see that divisions of this kind don't work. Separate but equal failed. Abraham Lincoln wrote:


"A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure permanently half-slave and half-free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved - I do not expect the house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other." --Lincoln's 'House-Divided' Speech in Springfield, Illinois, June 16, 1858.

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, --"Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others"


And yet, here we are in 2004 attempting to divide the nation again. Sounds pretty moronic to me.

Could it be that these are the things MM is speaking about?

Not hardly. You might want to view the link and read the Michael Moore quotes included in it. None of them rise to the level of Mr. Lincoln's quotes and none of them address the issue of gays being denied the right to marry one another in the U.S.

 

[faithinkarma]

MM got this country talking about the issues in a way no one else has done and made himself a bucket of money at the same time. I can't fault him for that. I do take exception to the title of this thread however. Perhaps some might find it just as inaccurate if there was a thread called Rush Limbaugh, the Republican party, and their candidate?

 

[ElizK]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
Michael Moore is not the official spokesperson for the Democratic party! LOL!

I can't access the link........

A lot of people are going to see the movie, though, aren't they............

I checked the link, and was able to access the site. Try it again, it's a worthwhile read.

 

[peachgirl]

Try it again, it's a worthwhile read

No, it's not.

That doomsday music in the background with the fades to red are a joke.

Perhaps some might find it just as inaccurate if there was a thread called Rush Limbaugh, the Republican party, and their candidate?

I could find hundreds of websites that portray Bush to be an out and out monster but they'd be no more valid or worth visiting than this site is.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by peachgirl
I could find hundreds of websites that portray Bush to be an out and out monster but they'd be no more valid or worth visiting than this site is.

I've visited a number of these election year web sites and what fascinates me is the sound bite nature of them all. Everything someone says is combed for those one or two sentences that can be plastered on a web page. I wonder how many of those sound bites are taken out of context. Without the context how can we be sure what the speaker really meant, whether it's President Bush, Sen. Kerry or Michael Moore?

 

[JimB.]

A lot of people are going to see the movie, though, aren't they............

Which is OK by me, as long as those that see the movie take the time to verify the accuracy of what is presented and not to take it to be the unvarnished truth.

Problem is though, a lot will not.

 

[shortbun]

OK, I watched. Somebody is really scared of John Kerry, eh?

The thing is that I agree with Michael Moore on lots of things
and don't agree with him on some more. The big thing I agree
with him on is that Americans are too easily lead. I don't see
lots of independent thought. I respect independent thought
even if the views are not mine. I don't respect those people
who insist on saying they have an opinion even if it's really
the opinion of the man who's telling them what to think. I say
"man" because in general, I find those people to be involved
in some sort of patriarchal pursuit wether it be religion or politics,
some even marriage. Most of them don't even know it and that's where I really lose respect. I don't like to see people called morons here on the DIS and I don't think I've done it. These folks
that have the lemming approach to life have made their choice.
I just don't think it's fair of them to portray themselves as
free thinkers but hey, I guess they'd have to actually be free
thinkers to have that realization so- oh, never mind.
Michael Moore is just too aware of the world for most of you.
Most people like to sit in their computer or TV chair and never
really get that there is a huge world full of other cultures and
races and religions.....we are not the only folks on this planet.
Sorry if his realizing that makes you uncomfortable. People in
other cultures are much more curious and worldly than most Americans. We currently have a president that is sooo not
curious about the world that as an ivy league college student,
when most of his peers were taking summers and whole years
of college abroad, he chose to stay home and party. This is the
guy we "elected" president and it's just embarrassing.

I was a travel agent for 29 years. For 10 of them, I worked
in a leisure agency at the country's largest university. When I
was preparing students for their summer trips abroad, I had
to explain to them about the "ugly american" behavior.
Most Americans think people in other countries speak English
but refuse. Many Americans are offended when they can not
pay in US dollars while in another country. Many Americans are
loud and offensive in places where they should be showing respect to their hosts. These are not new ideas and thoughts-
the ugly american image was around long before Michael Moore.
As my DS says "Here's $10, take it and buy yourself a clue!"

 

[Nancy]

That little website is doing the same thing MM does but on a smaller scale. It took quotes and used them out of context to try to get their point across. I watched it, read all the quotes and know that most if not all of them are just bits and pieces of long speeches or interviews. Without seeing the entire thing in it's entirety it loses some of it's meaning and impact. I don't feel the fade to red and music was a joke....the website was trying to punch it up..that's what they did. And I'm sure everyone here could find some website or links to support their views on a subject. One little website won't change my mind...I'm much smarter then that and I certainly don't think anyone with a different opinion then mine is wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and believes.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Americans do not have a stranglehold on "ugly" behavior.

Everyone in America is not fortunate enough to have the ability (time, finances and desire) to travel abroad. While I am curious about different cultures and countries, I don't have the ability to explore them. If that makes me an "ugly American", then so be it. I've been labeled worse.

 

[ElizK]

Ok, I'll agree with you on the whole music thing. But tell me... how can "Americans are stupid" be taken out of context?

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by ElizK
Ok, I'll agree with you on the whole music thing. But tell me... how can "Americans are stupid" be taken out of context?

Easy ... the quote was taken out of a larger set of comments/statements he made and what is presented is one or two sentences without the surrounding information. What's missing is what Mr. Moore said before and after those statements that may inform us about the context.

Example: "I'm going to kill you." A simple statement that we all think we understand. Someone is threatening to murder someone else, right? Maybe, maybe not.

Suppose it's two people washing a car and one says, "Don't spray me with the hose again." (Laughter follows; person gets sprayed with the hose.) "I'm going to kill you" (followed by more laughter.) The person obviously doesn't mean they are going to commit murder, but without the context we'd never know it.

Same sentence ... two people in a dark alley, one holding a gun. "Give me all your valuables... or I'm going to kill you." In that context the meaning is crystal clear.

Same sentence, two different contexts, two different meanings. That's how something could be taken out of context.

 

[ElizK]

I understand how things can be taken out of context .

I just can't imagine how "Americans are stupid" can be meant in any other way than stated.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by ElizK
I understand how things can be taken out of context .

I just can't imagine how "Americans are stupid" can be meant in any other way than stated.

Well, let's see...In a recent poll, 57% of Americans felt that GWB was doing a poor job as president. In the same poll, Bush received nearly 47% of the votes for re-election.

So, in other words, 4% of those polled apparently thought that Bush was doing a poor job as president...and they want to re-elect him to another term.

And you ask how someone could say that Americans are (sometimes) pretty stupid ?

 

[peachgirl]

Problem is though, a lot will not.

But wouldn't that make them "stupid"?

 

[cardaway]

Originally posted by ElizK
I understand how things can be taken out of context .

I just can't imagine how "Americans are stupid" can be meant in any other way than stated.

I guess it all comes down to if oyu think he was talking about you or not.

I know he wasn't talking about me. I take it you feel differently.