Mass shooting ChCh NZ

[agame2323]

Call him what you want but he had an agenda and a very specific target. That's a terrorism. He's a terrorist. There's nothing mentally wrong this person. He knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[mummabear]

Call him what you want but he had an agenda and a very specific target. That's a terrorism. He's a terrorist. There's nothing mentally wrong this person. He knew exactly what he was doing.

And the amount of planning to pull it off shows he is capable of critical thinking.
I mean he is clearly a nutter, but not in the i dont know right from wrong category

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

My point is, it's not that accurate to call him right wing, when he could also be called left wing, depending on the issue. He sounds like an overall nutter, and as with many people like him, has contradictory views. If journalists take the time to break down that rambling manifesto of his, I would imagine some extremely strange things will surface.

While he doesn't qualify as legally insane, no one who does what he did is anything less than deeply disturbed.

Actually no one here called him right wing. They said he identifies with white nationalist extremists.

It's true that he may have had views on a wide range of topics, some of them contradictory. I wonder which views of his were the motivator behind this attack? Do you think it was his environmentalism views? His love of China or hatred of the 1%? Or perhaps it could be his white nationalist anti-immigrant views? Hmm, I wonder which one.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Actually no one here called him right wing. They said he identifies with white nationalist extremists.

It's true that he may have had views on a wide range of topics, some of them contradictory. I wonder which views of his were the motivator behind this attack? Do you think it was his environmentalism views? His love of China or hatred of the 1%? Or perhaps it could be his white nationalist anti-immigrant views? Hmm, I wonder which one.

 

[Searc]

My point is, it's not that accurate to call him right wing, when he could also be called left wing, depending on the issue. He sounds like an overall nutter, and as with many people like him, has contradictory views. If journalists take the time to break down that rambling manifesto of his, I would imagine some extremely strange things will surface.

While he doesn't qualify as legally insane, no one who does what he did is anything less than deeply disturbed.

Nope. The white guy doesn't get to use the "deeply disturbed" label. He's a terrorist. The end.

 

[EMom]

Nope. The white guy doesn't get to use the "deeply disturbed" label. He's a terrorist. The end.

I believe terrorists ARE deeply disturbed. That doesn’t mean they aren’t responsible for their actions or that they lack planning skills. But normal people don’t commit terrorist acts. Emotionally, something is terribly off with you if you can commit such acts.

ETA: Live streaming it fits right in with some of what he wrote. He wanted to be famous, as is the goal of so many today. That seems to have been a strong motivation for him.

 

[Hikergirl]

Actually no one here called him right wing. They said he identifies with white nationalist extremists.

It's true that he may have had views on a wide range of topics, some of them contradictory. I wonder which views of his were the motivator behind this attack? Do you think it was his environmentalism views? His love of China or hatred of the 1%? Or perhaps it could be his white nationalist anti-immigrant views? Hmm, I wonder which one.

He said he took true inspiration from Anders Breivik. He vowed to take revenge for the European lives lost in terrorist attacks.
I guess you didn't think that was worth mentioning. But hey you did your part- you let us know he liked Trump.

Terriorists are evil, I don't care what their ideology is, it comes from hatred. But, I also believe that one has to have some sort of mental issue to let that hatred consume them enough to murder people. It has nothing to do with right and wrong because in their minds they are right.

 

[cabanafrau]

We have humans targeting and killing humans for absolutely no good reason, the end. It shouldn't matter who's on whatever end of the equation. It's deplorable and it's in the interest of all humans that it stops. If psychological issues are at the root of something they should not be overlooked for the sake of making anybody feel it's an inappropriate consideration for any racial, ethnic, citizenship or religious reason.

I think it benefits all for the motives and causes to be probed and understood to any extent possible. Who's to say whatever knowledge gleaned about any attacker of any stripe may not eventually prove useful in preventing this carnage in the future. An answer that saves a single human from slaughter deserves to be uncovered.

 

[agame2323]

I believe terrorists ARE deeply disturbed. That doesn’t mean they aren’t responsible for their actions or that they lack planning skills. But normal people don’t commit terrorist acts. Emotionally, something is terribly off with you if you can commit such acts.

ETA: Live streaming it fits right in with some of what he wrote. He wanted to be famous, as is the goal of so many today. That seems to have been a strong motivation for him.

I don't care if he decided to show it live on Pay-Per View and charged $50. What he committed was an act of terror. Him live streaming only adds to the terror he wanted to instill inside the minds of the general public. Call him what he is.

 

[disneyjunkie]

But normal people don’t commit terrorist acts.

History has shown us that statement is not true.

The KKK committed terrorist acts. Many members of the klan were NORMAL, upstanding members of their communities.

Groups of hate filled terrorists destroyed middle class black communities(Wilmington, Tulsa, Rosewood...)

The annihilation of the Tasmanian Aboriginals (and all of colonialism across the globe) also an act of terrorism committed by normal people.

This idea that terrorism is something new that is orchestrated by the mentally unstable is false.

 

[Hikergirl]

Ted Bundy was normal too, at least that is how he appeared.
Just because people hold down jobs and appear normal doesn't mean they are right in the head.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

Actually no one here called him right wing. They said he identifies with white nationalist extremists.

It's true that he may have had views on a wide range of topics, some of them contradictory. I wonder which views of his were the motivator behind this attack? Do you think it was his environmentalism views? His love of China or hatred of the 1%? Or perhaps it could be his white nationalist anti-immigrant views? Hmm, I wonder which one.

He said he took true inspiration from Anders Breivik. He vowed to take revenge for the European lives lost in terrorist attacks.
I guess you didn't think that was worth mentioning.

I said he identifies with white nationalist extremists ... that pretty much covers Breivik, no?

As far as the mental issue question. I think in some cases that is a cause. But in other cases such as this one, I think it is more of a cult-think type situation. Perpetrators like this one immerse themselves in a counter-culture that reinforces their views, and result in almost a brain-washing effect that culminates in violence. The more mainstream these views are allowed to become, the more emboldened they are. Works the exact same way as ISIS - their members are not mentally unstable - they are brainwashed in the ideology of their particular cult.

 

[mnrose]

Alleged?!!! Tell that to the victims of 9/11......
What a scary thought process.

I'm talking about SINCE 2001. A lot of energy gets spent by our government on "islamic terrorists" and nary a word gets said about white terrorists. Indeed, we seldom even use that word to describe white mass shooters, even though to me, it's all the same crap.

Notice I said "over the last few years...." Obviously, Al Qaeda, an islamic organization, committed the atrocity in September 2001. I don't deny that. But, now it's going the other way. It's all bad. It's all disgusting. But, lots of time and $$$ is being spent on Islamic terror. What are we doing about white terrorists? That's my point. And, apparently, I expressed it badly. RIGHT NOW, my greatest personal fear is white terrorists with guns doing mass shootings for whatever demented reason they have. And, based on the mass shootings happening in the last FEW years, I'd say that's a logical fear. Pretty sure those Muslims praying today think that too. And, simultaneously, they get to be "feared" as potential terrorists. Wonderful double whammy.

Just look at the words used to describe this attack "people were killed by a shooter." The word terrorist appears ONLY when the New Zealand Prime Minister uses the word. The headline in the article above doesn't use it, and it appears no where in the reporter's words. Word choice matters. We IMMEDIATELY label killings by Muslims (the killings in Paris, for example) as "terror". Why is that?

 

[mnrose]

I said he identifies with white nationalist extremists ... that pretty much covers Breivik, no?

As far as the mental issue question. I think in some cases that is a cause. But in other cases such as this one, I think it is more of a cult-think type situation. Perpetrators like this one immerse themselves in a counter-culture that reinforces their views, and result in almost a brain-washing effect that culminates in violence. The more mainstream these views are allowed to become, the more emboldened they are. Works the exact same way as ISIS - their members are not mentally unstable - they are brainwashed in the ideology of their particular cult.

And, what are we doing to identify these cults and groups?

 

[EMom]

I never said he wasn’t a terrorist. So don’t put words in my mouth. I said I don’t think normal people go around doing these things, and while not legally insane, those who do this are somehow disturbed. For example, I’d argue that KKK members who committed terrible acts may have appeared normal, but terrorizing others is NOT what a normal, emotionally stable person does. Something is very “off” about you if terrorism is your life goal. Again, I don’t believe this in any way diminishes culpability.

I have known people that most would have viewed as normal, even respectable. But they had a darkness, which in some was downright evil. They were completely responsible for their acts. I don’t think of them as normal, no matter how good a facade they showed the world.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

And, what are we doing to identify these cults and groups?

Well, domestically at least, there are organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center that identify and track hate groups. They report we're at a 20 year high in hate groups, largely due to a dramatic increase in white supremacy groups.

Maybe there should be a campaign aimed at portraying these perpetrators as brainwashed, pathetic, programmed "sheep", following the group-think of what they've surrounded themselves with.

 

[Hikergirl]

I said he identifies with white nationalist extremists ... that pretty much covers Breivik, no?

Well sure, I guess mentioning by name, the person who the shooter directly said was his true inspiration, but a non-American who isn't our President didn't really fit the narrative you were trying to sell with your first two posts in this thread then.


As far as the mental issue question. I think in some cases that is a cause. But in other cases such as this one, I think it is more of a cult-think type situation. Perpetrators like this one immerse themselves in a counter-culture that reinforces their views, and result in almost a brain-washing effect that culminates in violence. The more mainstream these views are allowed to become, the more emboldened they are. Works the exact same way as ISIS - their members are not mentally unstable - they are brainwashed in the ideology of their particular cult.

I can somewhat agree with you here about the mental issue, except the part about how mainstream these views have become. These views are still on the fringe, the far end of the extreme.
I personally think the goal of this is to make these views more mainstream, to show the world "what is right" because they don't feel enough of us think they way they do. Of course that is just IMO, I'm not making any claims that is what the reason is.

 

[Southernmiss]

And, what are we doing to identify these cults and groups?

If the groups and individuals are vocal on social media then authorities are alerted to these groups, but I don't know if there is an effective way to stop all of these nutters forever and for good.

 

[cabanafrau]

A mental competency exam isn't done in a matter of hours.

I can somewhat agree with you here about the mental issue, except the part about how mainstream these views have become. These views are still on the fringe, the far end of the extreme.
I personally think the goal of this is to make these views more mainstream, to show the world "what is right" because they don't feel enough of us think they way they do. Of course that is just IMO, I'm not making any claims that is what the reason is.

Unfortunately these views are less and less fringe everyday. Our prison systems are rife with these types of ideologues, and ripe for the epidemic to spread. Prison reform is an issue that bears paying attention to for reasons that go far beyond what generally comes to mind when it's discussed.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

I can somewhat agree with you here about the mental issue, except the part about how mainstream these views have become. These views are still on the fringe, the far end of the extreme.
I personally think the goal of this is to make these views more mainstream, to show the world "what is right" because they don't feel enough of us think they way they do. Of course that is just IMO, I'm not making any claims that is what the reason is.

I think anti-immigrant views are becoming more mainstream, and the more mainstream they become, the more people are willing to stand up and agree with those views, which in turn makes it even more mainstream. Now, I don't think the mainstream view suggests that violence be used, but the mainstream reinforcement is then used by the fringe element to justify (in their minds) the violence. I do agree with you that there is also the element of these perpetrators wanting to show the world "what is right" - as I think it was Breivik himself mentioned hoping to trigger a "race war." (not sure I am remembering that right).