Mass shooting ChCh NZ

Hikergirl

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 28, 2016
A mental competency exam isn't done in a matter of hours.


Unfortunately these views are less and less fringe everyday. Our prison systems are rife with these types of ideologues, and ripe for the epidemic to spread. Prison reform is an issue that bears paying attention to for reasons that go far beyond what generally comes to mind when it's discussed.
There are 330 million people in the US, the prison system represents a small subset of that number, 2,200,000 according to BJS. Even if all 2+ million of those people held those beliefs I'd call that the fringe.
 

LSUmiss

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
My point is, it's not that accurate to call him right wing, when he could also be called left wing, depending on the issue. He sounds like an overall nutter, and as with many people like him, has contradictory views. If journalists take the time to break down that rambling manifesto of his, I would imagine some extremely strange things will surface.

While he doesn't qualify as legally insane, no one who does what he did is anything less than deeply disturbed.
Since when does left or right wing matter anyway. Ppl like this should be seen as on the fringe. I dont see a need to defend or correct whatever side of extremism he identifies with whether you consider yourself conservative, liberal or moderate.
 
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Hikergirl

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 28, 2016
I think anti-immigrant views are becoming more mainstream, and the more mainstream they become, the more people are willing to stand up and agree with those views, which in turn makes it even more mainstream. Now, I don't think the mainstream view suggests that violence be used, but the mainstream reinforcement is then used by the fringe element to justify (in their minds) the violence. I do agree with you that there is also the element of these perpetrators wanting to show the world "what is right" - as I think it was Breivik himself mentioned hoping to trigger a "race war." (not sure I am remembering that right).
I think there is alot of twisting of anti-illegal immigration into anti-immigration that may make it seem that it's becoming more mainstream.
Again that is my own perception, I haven't actually looked at any stats regarding these groups that hold these beliefs.

I don't know how to stop these kinds of terrorist acts, I honestly don't think it is possible. There will always be those who hate, who see something wrong they need to right. Those who act on their hatred because they are twisted.
 
  • mummabear

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 2, 2012
    Makes me sad to be an American (when usually I'm very proud) that we are exporting that kind of hate all over the globe.
    If it helps any the perpetrator was Austrailian, which sadly has always had some very racist groups, and ChCh while being a wonderful and diverse cities, is one of two in NZ known for their skinhead problems.

    People with this kind of hate are sadly all over the world.
     
  • EMom

    <font color=red>Comes from a long line of all fork
    Joined
    Jul 2, 2007
    Exactly. White guy=mentally ill. Non-white guy=evil.
    Is there some rule that says a person can’t be disturbed (I never said mentally ill and personally would equate disturbed more with twisted.) AND evil all at once? Because I’ve seen that combo more times than I’m comfortable with. And the combo showed up in various races.
     

    LSUmiss

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 8, 2014
    He wasn't normal either. Unless you think serial killers are right in the head?
    He was a sociopath/psychopath, but what does that matter in the end? I’m not being snarky. I’m really asking. Ppl like to talk about “mental health” when these things happen. This is a not mentally ill person who might not have down this if he had the proper treatment. I’m not saying that ppl like this can’t possibly be mitigated or prevented, I’m just saying access to mental health care would not have prevented this.
     
  • Hikergirl

    DIS Veteran
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    Feb 28, 2016
    He was a sociopath/psychopath, but what does that matter in the end? I’m not being snarky. I’m really asking. Ppl like to talk about “mental health” when these things happen. This is a not mentally ill person who might not have down this if he had the proper treatment. I’m not saying that ppl like this can’t possibly be mitigated or prevented, I’m just saying access to mental health care would not have prevented this.
    Ted Bundy was first diagnosed with biopolar disorder, but then it was later changed to ASPD, which is a mental condition.

    For me, mentioning mental health isn't to say that access to treatment could have prevented any of this, it is a way of acknowledging that people who carry out such acts as killing 50 people have something very wrong inside their minds.
     

    luvsJack

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 3, 2007
    I do think there is some misunderstanding when some say anything about someone being mentally ill or sick or nutters or whatever.

    Anyone of any race, nationality, political party, belief system or whatever who takes a gun and opens fire in a place where there are other humans, or flies a plane into such a place or straps a bomb to their chest and blows themself up in such a place or drives a truck with explosives into such a place has something very wrong inside their minds. Label however you want to.

    This also includes anyone that hurts or kills another person because they look different or believe different than they do. However they label their cause or their organization or their group, if they hate another person to that extreme, something is wrong in them.

    None of that excuses it. None of that says we should do “this” and not “that”. It just is.

    My prayers are with those affected by this event.
     

    LSUmiss

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 8, 2014
    Ted Bundy was first diagnosed with biopolar disorder, but then it was later changed to ASPD, which is a mental condition.

    For me, mentioning mental health isn't to say that access to treatment could have prevented any of this, it is a way of acknowledging that people who carry out such acts as killing 50 people have something very wrong inside their minds.
    Many mental health professionals would argue that ASPD is NOT a mental condition. It’s basically just a description of a sociopath. I agree ppl like that have something wrong with them, but if they aren’t psychotic (which most aren’t) then they know right from wrong. I am bothered when ppl bring up mental health in these situations b/c I think it stigmatizes & minimizes those with real mental illness.
     

    Gumbo4x4

    Note to the ladies who forgot to
    Joined
    Jan 19, 2012
    I'm talking about SINCE 2001. A lot of energy gets spent by our government on "islamic terrorists" and nary a word gets said about white terrorists. Indeed, we seldom even use that word to describe white mass shooters, even though to me, it's all the same crap.

    Notice I said "over the last few years...." Obviously, Al Qaeda, an islamic organization, committed the atrocity in September 2001. I don't deny that. But, now it's going the other way. It's all bad. It's all disgusting. But, lots of time and $$$ is being spent on Islamic terror. What are we doing about white terrorists? That's my point. And, apparently, I expressed it badly. RIGHT NOW, my greatest personal fear is white terrorists with guns doing mass shootings for whatever demented reason they have. And, based on the mass shootings happening in the last FEW years, I'd say that's a logical fear. Pretty sure those Muslims praying today think that too. And, simultaneously, they get to be "feared" as potential terrorists. Wonderful double whammy.

    Just look at the words used to describe this attack "people were killed by a shooter." The word terrorist appears ONLY when the New Zealand Prime Minister uses the word. The headline in the article above doesn't use it, and it appears no where in the reporter's words. Word choice matters. We IMMEDIATELY label killings by Muslims (the killings in Paris, for example) as "terror". Why is that?
    We don’t use the term “terrorist” to describe ALL mass shooters because many of them are simply nutters on a binge. By definition, terrorism requires an agenda. It’s the same reason we don’t call drive by shootings in the ghetto “terrorism”.

    The incident at hand is obviously an act of terrorism.
     

    mummabear

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 2, 2012
    There are currently 87 people listed as missing after the qtta is, including a 3 year old boy.
     

    Planogirl

    I feel the nerd in me stirring
    Joined
    Aug 11, 2000
    I think that learning about these maniacs is important. What makes them tick and can they be recognized ahead of time somehow? They are guilty of evil acts and should be treated like the vermin they are of course. But I agree that they are not normal and that fact shouldn't be ignored. I hate to believe that this is the new normal and that it has to stay that way.

    My heart goes out to the victims. This craziness has gone on way too long.
     

    EMom

    <font color=red>Comes from a long line of all fork
    Joined
    Jul 2, 2007
    A relative of mine has an adult son, and he's always been off since preschool age. In the South, we say, "That boy ain't right." No diagnosis to explain it, but he was one of those teens that had we gotten the phone call that he'd shot up a school, no one would have been shocked. We give him a wide berth and haven't seen him in years. His mother has always excused it as "he's all boy," which makes me cringe.

    I used to teach in a fairly large school and about once a year or two, a kid would come along whom everyone had the same uneasy feeling about. If we found out that killed their family over the weekend or that they went on a school shooting spree, no one would have been surprised. In every case, including the relative, what they have in common is incredible rage. Not anger, mind you, but RAGE. Not rage because of anything in particular either. Just an all consuming rage.

    If one of them had ever found an outlet for their rage, such as an online group that hates XYZ, they would likely have readily latched onto it, not because it was actually a deeply held belief, but because it gave them an outlet for their rage. A target, a focus, with a support system. An audience. This was before the internet was what it is, but there are still people out there today, just like those students. And now they have easy access to groups which help them focus their rage.

    I don't know what makes them this way, but I know they exist.
     

    Hikergirl

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 28, 2016
    Many mental health professionals would argue that ASPD is NOT a mental condition. It’s basically just a description of a sociopath. I agree ppl like that have something wrong with them, but if they aren’t psychotic (which most aren’t) then they know right from wrong. I am bothered when ppl bring up mental health in these situations b/c I think it stigmatizes & minimizes those with real mental illness.
    So, we shouldn't discuss the very real possibility that these (in this case) terrorists are mentally unstable?

    There are plenty of studies and research mentioned here that one can look in to further if so inclined.
    https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/key-issues/violence/3626-serious-mental-illness-and-mass-homicide
     
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