Mandalorian And Grogu debuts May 22nd in theaters

[Obi-J Kenobi]

Man, I bet you just hated this:

Taking Star Wars "seriously" is one of the biggest problems in the fandom.



I think that's the thing - you are criticizing hte storytelling when you haven't seen the movie. By all accounts the story is generally well-liked. Now, marketing, etc. is certainly fair game. The problem is the fallacy of, "If they only did THIS, Star Wars movies would be more popular than they ever were," with THIS being exactly what I think they should do. The fact is, no matter WHAT they did storyline-wise, we'd be in the same situation with all other factors being the same. There are also some fans that are determined to hate anything, no matter what is is. If Empire Strikes Back were released today, they'd still hate it!

No, it doesn't offend me and I don't hate a dancing Boba Fett. I could be missing something, but I don't think that dancing Boba Fett is meant to market a new movie. I must not be making myself clear. The Super Bowl ad, I referenced, would've worked for some movies, like Spaceballs, Top Secret! or Naked Gun, but not Star Wars. Star Wars isn't a spoof movie or straight up comedy.

I haven't been criticizing the story telling of the Mando & Grogu movie, but storytelling at Lucasfilm and SW in general and especially leading up to the release of the Mando & Grogu movie. I don't think that storytelling has been strong.

https://www.the-numbers.com/

I have linked the updated box office numbers from this past weekend. The movie dropped 70% in its second weekend. If the story was strong, the word of mouth would be better and the box office results would be better. That's my opinion, whether I have seen Mando & Grogu or not. And the box office results of Mando & Grogu continue to hurt SW brand. That's also my opinion, whether I have seen Mando & Grogu or not.

This isn't the right thread for this recommendation, but here I go anyway. I went to see Pressure this past weekend, instead of Mando & Grogu. I highly recommend folks go see Pressure. It was a really well written movie, well acted and it had good character development. The movie is about planning D-Day and the weather. Doesn't sound interesting. But, for me, it represents the crazy idea that if you write a good script and tell a good story, you can make a good film and good art.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Gets close enough to “break even” at the box office, plus any PVOD sales which have a higher revenue back to Disney/Lucasfilm, and whatever agreed upon licensing for when it eventually lands on D+ (which is a profitable venture at this point).

Tack on downstream impacts at the experiences sector with the parks update to attractions, unique food offerings, and merchandise.

AMC had its 3rd best movie merch sale as a result of Mando and Grogu

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

AMC had its 3rd best movie merch sale as a result of Mando and Grogu

Wow! So the folks who are showing up are all in, lol

 

[jade1]

My fear is that Dave Filoni will just say let's go back to the Skywalkers' story. They bring Anakin or Luke back to life through Ashoka and some stupid world between words and Marvel-like multi-verses. I hope not, but here comes Luke and Mara Jade.

I hope this isn't a company wide issue for TWDC, but it may be. I am to the point that I don't even want to see Toy Story 5, because I am afraid the movie is going to be focused on Jessie and "tablet AI" and poor Woody and Buzz (who are the characters that make Toy Story work so well) will be bit characters.

Maul please.

Luke Leia and Han (who are the characters that made Star Wars work so well) were bit players in the reboot.

Started out with OG as bit players (esp Luke) so us Boomers haven't really seen the Luke we were hoping for on the big screen.

I think they were hoping the later generations would climb on board harder than they did with the new characters

Having the Toy Story OG's be bit players in TS5 might happen, but animated movies keep characters from aging and dying-so there's no shelf life. AI I suppose will help though.

 

[mdmost]

The time to have done more with the original cast was the late 80s to early 90s when they were middle age. Harrison Ford didn't want anything to do with Star Wars and was at the peak of his popularity. Carrie Fisher was more into writing than acting and had her own demons she was dealing with drug addiction. Mark Hamill would've done it but the idea of a sequel trilogy was shelved by Lucas after Jedi. Lucas then wanted to go backwards with his storytelling.

The best thing that could've happened with the OT characters was an animated series that was set post-Jedi. The Zahn Trilogy was the best thing we could get. Given their age, being bit players was the only option with the sequels.

 

[BrianL]

The time to have done more with the original cast was the late 80s to early 90s when they were middle age. Harrison Ford didn't want anything to do with Star Wars and was at the peak of his popularity. Carrie Fisher was more into writing than acting and had her own demons she was dealing with drug addiction. Mark Hamill would've done it but the ideal of a sequel trilogy was shelved by Lucas after Jedi. Lucas then wanted to go backwards with his storytelling.

The best thing that could've happened with the OT characters was an animated series that was set post-Jedi. The Zahn Trilogy was the best thing we could get. Given their age, being bit players was the only option with the sequels.

RIght! They didn't do it then, so the Sequels had to focus on a new generation. Having the OT characters in smaller, mentor roles was the right call.

Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate criticisms of the ST, but "MY favorite character didn't get enough screen time" isn't really one of them.

 

[nancipants]

RIght! They didn't do it then, so the Sequels had to focus on a new generation. Having the OT characters in smaller, mentor roles was the right call.

Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate criticisms of the ST, but "MY favorite character didn't get enough screen time" isn't really one of them.

But they weren't really smaller roles, except for Leia. Han in TFA and Luke in TLJ were major characters (and top billed). Leia would probably have been the same for TRoS if Carrie hadn't passed. But more, so much of the plot centered around them. I still wish they'd had them in established background roles - Leia leading the NR, Han with the military (or retired/racing), and Luke with the Jedi - only for them to be "consulted" by the new generation.

And I will be forever sad we didn't get ONE scene with all three of them, and nothing with Han and Luke.

 

[Suger Mag]

I think sometimes people have a story they want to be told, They have a distinct perception of how it should be. Then when inevitably a different story is told by the powers that be .... they are disappointed

 

[BrianL]

I think sometimes people have a story they want to be told, They have a distinct perception of how it should be. Then when inevitably a different story is told by the powers that be .... they are disappointed

As I have often said, you should judge something for what it is, not what it isn't.

 

[mdmost]

I think sometimes people have a story they want to be told, They have a distinct perception of how it should be. Then when inevitably a different story is told by the powers that be .... they are disappointed

Head canon is very hard to overcome. Fans went from being passive spectators to feeling like shareholders who should have a say in how stories are written or told and are mad when the story isn't what they would've preferred. Maybe it was always that way. I know I was fairly vocal back when the prequels came out about how I would've told the story versus what George gave me. I didn't have something to amplify my displeasure back then like there is now.

 

[Kit Jackson]

You could pretty much classify Mando as the “beginner friendly” part of Star Wars… whilst not talking down to new fans like Nubs and the folks at YJA.

To be fair, Young Jedi Adventures is legitimately and truly a kids show with a target audience of around age 6 and younger. That being said, despite being well outside the target audience, I watched it and absolutely adored Nubs. I think you could enjoy and understand Mandalorian and Grugu without having seen a single episode of the series.

What platforms will Obsession be on... or Backdoor (not familiar with either) so I wonder what urgency is created by feeling like it is a theater only thing or when or where it will come to streaming

If they are movies, they will be on some streaming service eventually. Almost every new modern movie makes its way to a streaming service within about a year of its theatrical release. The difference is that something with a strong brand association makes it easier to know which streaming service it will go to.

I enjoyed the movie. I got my ticket at a deep discount so that's something to keep in mind. I thought the score was fantastic. I thought some of the scenery was gorgeous.

Spoiler

In my opinion, the creatures Rotta fought against were bad CGI. I thought the fisherman and the dog were amazing even though I couldn't tell if they were CGI, puppet, or animatronic. I liked the scenes of Grogu caring for Din. The movie slowed way down and it may have been my favorite section.

 

[Suger Mag]

Head canon is very hard to overcome. Fans went from being passive spectators to feeling like shareholders who should have a say in how stories are written or told and are mad when the story isn't what they would've preferred. Maybe it was always that way. I know I was fairly vocal back when the prequels came out about how I would've told the story versus what George gave me. I didn't have something to amplify my displeasure back then like there is now.

true, that sense of ownership and subsequent entitlement is part of the toxicity I feel.

To a certain extent this way of thinking is setting yourself up for guaranteed disappointment. As it is very unlikely that the story that is in your head (speaking general you you here) and that you want to be told is what will actually get told. Especially as a particualar universe gets expanded upon and the existing canon becomes more complex.

it is an interesting mindset to expect other writers with their own ideas to tell a story that is inside your head. And with every fan having different stories and expectations, that sets up an impossible task of making people happy

 

[HokieRaven5]

it is an interesting mindset to expect other writers with their own ideas to tell a story that is inside your head. And with every fan having different stories and expectations, that sets up an impossible task of making people happy

Especially with 30-40 years of individual head canon to battle against.

 

[mdmost]

Yeah, the Expanded Universe being so vast and full of great stories made it natural for people to want to see Master Jedi Luke Skywalker in the sequel trilogy and not old man hermit Luke. I loved the Dark Empire comics and the Zahn Trilogy because they felt in line with what happened after Jedi. There's a large gap that could be explored with Luke which I think would be perfect for an animated series.

 

[Obi-J Kenobi]

It isn't about eras or specific characters, etc. in my opinion.

Fresh, good storytelling that resonates with what Star Wars (or other Lucasfilm properties) used to be and the blueprint of what George Lucas developed. That's the key here.

Lucasfilm in my opinion hasn't adopted this strategy well. It has resulted in diminishing returns and the SW property and brand are not in a good place. Mando and Grogu is not helping the brand. The box office results are reflective of my opinion.

And, also, to the degree to which Lucasfilm unable to adopt this strategy and market it honestly with the public is the degree to which Lucasfilm studios will (continue to) be trouble.

 

[irlandaise]

Lucasfilm in my opinion hasn't adopted this strategy well. It has resulted in diminishing returns and the SW property and brand are not in a good place. Mando and Grogu is not helping the brand. The box office results are reflective of my opinion.

The Mandalorian and Grogu characters are huge hits for the Star Wars brand. The modest box office results for this movie won't diminish people's affection for those characters.

 

[BrianL]

It isn't about eras or specific characters, etc. in my opinion.

Fresh, good storytelling that resonates with what Star Wars (or other Lucasfilm properties) used to be and the blueprint of what George Lucas developed. That's the key here.

Lucasfilm in my opinion hasn't adopted this strategy well. It has resulted in diminishing returns and the SW property and brand are not in a good place. Mando and Grogu is not helping the brand. The box office results are reflective of my opinion.

And, also, to the degree to which Lucasfilm unable to adopt this strategy and market it honestly with the public is the degree to which Lucasfilm studios will (continue to) be trouble.

But, in my opinion, that is exactly what they have done. To me, they are very much in line with what Star Wars is - Mando & Grogu really being the most "OT-Like" of them all. Your assumption is a fallacy of, "If they only did it the way that I like it, it would be successful." They followed that blueprint and are still struggling, so...?

 

[Suger Mag]

It isn't about eras or specific characters, etc. in my opinion.

Fresh, good storytelling that resonates with what Star Wars (or other Lucasfilm properties) used to be and the blueprint of what George Lucas developed. That's the key here.

Lucasfilm in my opinion hasn't adopted this strategy well. It has resulted in diminishing returns and the SW property and brand are not in a good place. Mando and Grogu is not helping the brand. The box office results are reflective of my opinion.

And, also, to the degree to which Lucasfilm unable to adopt this strategy and market it honestly with the public is the degree to which Lucasfilm studios will (continue to) be trouble.

Interesting, I guess we just all liked unfresh and bad storytelling..... (sorry folks for the quotes, trying to make a point)

Just got back - quick review tonight.

• Generally liked it a lot!
• I'd probably cut about 20 minutes, but I say that about a lot of genre movies
• Ludwig Goransson's score is fantastic!

I'll leave a deeper dive for later.

This looked and sounded fantastic in IMAX 3D. Loved seeing Mando & Grogu on the big screen.

I absolutely loved it! It was a blast, just pure fun all around. And oh, the music!

Spoiler: Spoiler

@BrianL I actually liked the part in the woods. The movie was very action packed--maybe too action packed at times. So it was nice to slow down. Actually, what I would have done is trim the woods portion and add some slower moments elsewhere, the first 1/3 of the film felt like we were going from 007 to Rambo all so fast , lol.
DH's critique: he would have liked to have seen more of Zeb and have more characters from the show appear.

But, it was a very good movie. Oh, when the X-wing cavalry shows up to help Din... I was crying, lol. That felt like a classic SW moment

Just got out of the movie. I loved it too.

From now on I’m calling any single rider within SWGE an “independent contractor”

It’s a decent popcorn flick. Didn’t feel too much like episodes smashed, but definitely gave more made for TV movie vibes, which makes sense with it being filmed in majority on The Volume.

Appreciated that someone who has never watched the show could go into that movie and find a way to enjoy it, while also having the slew of easter eggs for fans.

Ludwig’s score as always top notch.

We saw it last night, and I really enjoyed it for what it was, a fun Star Wars adventure. I had avoided spoilers, but had seen general mixed reviews from SW vloggers, and I just went into it with no expectations for serious SW lore, etc. There were some great Easter eggs. I do feel a lot of the second half was not as well put together, not as well written/crafted, a lot of the story just didn't make sense to a movie, but the last 20 mins or so made up for it.
My favorite things:

Spoiler

Zeb, Zeb, and more Zeb. He was so awesome in live action, and I had no idea he'd be in it for a long as he was, in so many scenes. out of all of the returning Rebels cast in live action, he's the best (well, and Chopper.) Also, had NO idea at all that Ratta was going to be a good guy. That was a great surprise and twist, that he was totally not like his father/family. That Dejarik match was great, what great callbacks. But wow, turned into a total horror movie, when those creatures got out, started just attacking random people. wow. De wanna wonga fun to hear again. (it's one of my favorite lines from ROTJ,) and Sigourney Weaver was great as usual. I didn't mind the slow down as Grogu learns to take care of himself, so we all know he'll be ok if left on his own, but did find the old man swamp healer a bit silly, although kinda classic Disney, have some old, wise healer impart wisdom, etc. I didn't buy how easy it was for just Din and Grogu to fly that craft back into the Hutt's lair, and even w/o surprise, easily take out so many just like that. That was silly too. Oh Embo was awesome to see. glad he made it out. I was worried they were killing him off too easily.

Usually avoid opening weekends, but avoiding spoilers and reviews was not on my list,so we saw it Monday.

lots of fun, three thumbs up from myself, husband, and our adult daughter. Plenty of action with the fights. ships. monsters and of course cute Grogu.

I do agree that people who were not part of watching the Mandalorian streaming could see this on its own and enjoy it.... they explained some lore like the helmet

Never thought I could like a Hutt as much as Rotta.... him rolling in the surf like some big elephant seal playing with Grogu

I liked it. Don't mind them making more content, zero cares to see it again though (or future scenes from it on YouTube) which is my gauge. Music quite interesting.

But did have one question if anybody knows, I may have missed it and its very minimal anyway.

when Mando escaped and was fighting off to buy time, I thought he picked up weapons to use. But then had his blaster after he woke up from the coma.

Just got back from seeing it. It was really fun and reminded me of summer movies from my youth. The score was great. The beginning reminded me a bit of a Bond film with a specific mission that they barely make it out of. I loved the Mandalorian series, even season 3, so it was right up my alley. Lots of fun easter eggs sprinkled throughout.

Spoiler

The arena battle was the holochess board from the Millennium Falcon complete with similar creatures brought to life.
The ship the Imperial tries to escape in was a Kenner toy brought to the screen from the Empire Strikes Back line.
The city was Star Wars Chicago which is amusing given The Bear was Rotta and the series is set in Chicago.
The old man who helped Grogu felt like a nod to the old shack at the beginning of Pirates at Disneyland.
Fairly amusing that the two things Rise of Skywalker gave us were the meme of "somehow Palpatine returned" and Babu Frik.
Grogu making a Yoda hut for Din to heal under was funny. Where did the lamp come from?
I figured this was a great movie for prequel and Clone Wars nerds like Brian. Battle droids, the droid hoverbike from Phantom Menace, the chase scene through Star Wars Chicago, a creature fight in an arena. Was the bounty hunter from that show?
Zeb was great.

I have not watched the D+ series, DH has. I went along with him and we both thought it was entertaining. Like that it is different from the original Vader/Solo/Leia storyline with newer characters and dare I say “cuteness”.

We liked it. Only downside for me was I didn’t love seeing Mandos face as much and especially while fighting. That should be a hot take that someone would internet argue with me about.

I thought The Mandalorian and Grogu was awesome. It takes me back to the original Star Wars trilogy - it has the same 'feel'. We have lots of new characters to go with the old characters. Lots of robots and side animals. It was very well done and entertaining. It felt like we were in the Star Wars world - which was missing in Episodes I, II and III. And they kept the original ideas intact - like you need to be born a jedi to have powers, and you need to train. Episode IX clearly changed that premise for the worse.

My kids, wife and I absolutely loved it, and can't get enough of Baby Yoda.

We found it very enjoyable. In fact, there were some who clapped at the end of the movie. Reminded me of the reaction to the original Star Wars movies.

Overall, it's an enjoyable move with some heart felt moments involving the smaller characters. I found the opening scene to be more reflective of today's violence viewing culture (think John Wick) versus the original Star Wars movies from the 70s and 80s. Is it an epic Empire Stikes Back? No. Are the effects and story line enjoyable? Yes.

I think it's worth a see on the big screen before it hits streaming.

funny thing is, is just how many people liked it here compared to those who did not. I think there were only a few people who have posted saying they saw it and disliked it, so I find it interesting for you to claim the storytelling was not good

there are other factors at play.

The box office is no longer as good of an indicator or the sole indicator of success.

It is the long game.... Box office.... Streaming... merchandising... parks..... all support and drive each other and mean Kaching$$ for Disney.

 

[BrianL]

The thing that gets me, is that if being "good storytelling" equates to Box Office success, then the movies that many fans rail against the most still made more money:

DEC 2015 - The Force Awakens: $2,071,310,218
DEC 2016 - Rogue One: $1,058,684,742
DEC 2017 - The Last Jedi: $1,334,407,706
MAY 2018 - Solo: $392,924,807
DEC 2019 - The Rise of Skywalker: $1,077,022,372

I could argue that the ST proper are the least "fresh" of the releases since they are semi-retreads. Rogue One definitely has the most OT Nostalgia and did wel;, but still not as well as the reviled Episode IX. Solo is the abberation, and it is arguably the most like a "fans 'movie." Support from general audiences just wasn't there though. There are Reasons for that. One thing to note is that Solo and M&G released in May to a tepid response. Maybe Star Wars should stick to the holiday window. Honestly, I think M&G would have played pretty well in that space.

 

[mdmost]

I would need to do some research to see if any movies that were continuations of TV shows or streaming products equated to box office successes. Maybe Downton Abbey. I don't think a Game of Thrones movie would do well or HBO would've greenlit those. You're already limiting your audience to need to have some idea of the previous storyline and that's already a lower number of moviegoers. The same lack of box office happened for MCU properties based on Disney+ shows. Even Thunderbolts, which was positively reviewed and hailed as a great return to MCU storytelling, didn't equate to the typical MCU box office success. So of course the Mando movie wasn't going to equal the others. I thought it would do better but that also speaks to Disney creating its own monster in conditioning people to wait for Disney+.

I think a lot on the future of the franchise hinges on Starfighter (partially because I feel it leads into the next chapter of SW films) and that has a bonafide star in Gosling who can make people go out in large numbers to watch sci-fi. You also have a director who has a proven track record in making hit movies when he collaborates with the star of the movie like he did with Ryan Reynolds. But next year will be huge in general with the 50th anniversary restoration screenings and a new movie.