Major Policy Change in DVC/DCL Trade Policy UPDATE ON POST #193

[Sammie]

The "free" Internet is likely paid for by our dues, just like the "free" WDW transportation. They are unlikely to take something away that is paid for by members. On the other hand, when a member trades out for a cruise, DVC has to pay for it. If they can't recover the cost (by renting DVC rooms via CRO) then they will incur a loss. I suspect that things had gotten out of balance and they had to suspend DCL trades until things improve.

Why did they suspend trades out to DCL so abruptly? Who knows. Sounds like someone wasn't monitoring this as closely as they should have been and when the problem was noticed they had to take drastic action to protect quarterly profits. With the membership growing, lots of members trading out for cruises and CRO having to offer discounts to fill rooms, it's not hard to imagine how such a problem could arise.

But while I can understand the problem, I'm not happy about how they handled it, just as I wasn't happy when Mousekeeping marched into each studio at WDW and pulled the coffee mugs from the kitchenettes back during "mug gate" or when they reduced the pool temperature to 78 degrees during "pool gate".

Thanks Lisa, pretty much sums up how I feel. It is almost like they feel we can't handle the truth and at times they think they can just slide it past us. Honestly I would respect them more and accept the situation better if they would simply quit trying to hide everything.

Would it kill them to simply admit there is a problem, explain what happened and let us know what this means for the future of the program.

 

[Cmbar]

I hate to disagree with you but this is OP own fault - Disney did not all of a sudden call her out of the blue and tell her to rebook her cruises. She is angry because DCL did not read her mind - that this is what she wanted to do and keep rooms handy just for her. I am sorry that there is no availablity for her to rebook on points - DCL is a limited room availablity that is just the way it is.

I just got off the phone with MS and booked a trip for February 2012 - was told that as of this time no avaiablity for 2011 through October and limited through December 2011. DCL is not stopping the booking of cruises on points. This is an availability issue not a policy change.

I am very sorry for Carol and hope that someone can help her out.

If you read post 193 you will see that Carol was able to get her situation fixed. I am glad they helped her but again this is not "just availability". The probablility of two rooms totalling 1500 points opening up on the exact Alaska Disney cruise she wanted the very next day seems too outrageous to believe. If thats the case I would call each hour to check for availability for my Dream cruise. I think they needed to help Carol, she made it very clear who she was and that she would be posting this new policy on the DIS. I don't know, but I haven't heard of anyone else getting a call back on the Call list. I have heard of people being told they can't even be on the list. So who knows. Again, I am very glad that Carol was able to switch, but I am saddenend for those who can't get their situation fixed.

 

[JOANNEL]

If you read post 193 you will see that Carol was able to get her situation fixed. I am glad they helped her but again this is not "just availability". The probablility of two rooms totalling 1500 points opening up on the exact Alaska Disney cruise she wanted the very next day seems too outrageous to believe. If thats the case I would call each hour to check for availability for my Dream cruise. I think they needed to help Carol, she made it very clear who she was and that she would be posting this new policy on the DIS. I don't know, but I haven't heard of anyone else getting a call back on the Call list. I have heard of people being told they can't even be on the list. So who knows. Again, I am very glad that Carol was able to switch, but I am saddenend for those who can't get their situation fixed.

I added myself to the call list for our August 2011 Alaskan cruise. So I will let you know.

 

[Mineu]

Just wondering if anyone has received a reponse yet via email? I received a response within the hour of my negative score on the phone survey (I was quick to assure them that it was not the agent-he was as helpful as possible given the situation...)-but nothing from my email. Could this mean they are actually reading the emails and trying to help or are they being sent to the junk folder??

 

[Cmbar]

Just wondering if anyone has received a reponse yet via email? I received a response within the hour of my negative score on the phone survey (I was quick to assure them that it was not the agent-he was as helpful as possible given the situation...)-but nothing from my email. Could this mean they are actually reading the emails and trying to help or are they being sent to the junk folder??

I hope they are reading them. I sent an email via MS a few weeks ago asking to clarify what I had been told by a MS agent. Again, she advised me to book a cash room on the Dream, wait until I sailed in October, rebook that room and then call them when we got off the ship for them to book that room on points. I wanted them to give me a written response to confirm this. I got the email back that said we got your message and will respond soon. But they never responded. I am going to add that to my complaint with member satisfaction. I was very dissappointed they didn't respond to my email if even to say the policy is such and such.

 

[Cmbar]

I added myself to the call list for our August 2011 Alaskan cruise. So I will let you know.

Ah Good luck!! Did you already have a cruise booked on points or did you have a cash reservation you would like to change to points??

 

[Mineu]

I haven't received anything-confirmation of receipt of my email or answers to my questions...

 

[Anjelica]

The lack of communication is what kills me. Is there anything out on dvcmember.com? Did anyone receive a letter? After the whole not-communicating the Valet change beforehand fiasco I specifically suggested that they could, at minimum, email members with little cost to dues, etc. (This was in talking to a Member Services Satisfaction rep. after my initial email).

I truly feel at the bare minimum the communication to members has been severely lacking.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Thanks Lisa, pretty much sums up how I feel. It is almost like they feel we can't handle the truth and at times they think they can just slide it past us. Honestly I would respect them more and accept the situation better if they would simply quit trying to hide everything.

Would it kill them to simply admit there is a problem, explain what happened and let us know what this means for the future of the program.

I DO have an issue with changing or discontinuing perks with little or no notice. (I'm still ticked over the valet situation. ) But, I did purchase with the intent of staying at a DVC resort, not booking DCL or RCI. So, I guess my disappointment will be limited to the "extras".

 

[JWG]

I'm sorry some of you guys aren't happy. But to me, the base product is 95% the same as it's always been.

Except now we have more choices, including a monorail resort , a DLR respert and soon to be Hawaii. We have free Internet, nice new TV's and access to the dining plans. And if the downside is that it's hard to book a DCL cruise to Alaska on points, it just doesn't seem that big a downfall.

Something about message boards brings out the doom and gloom in people. When you feel that way, take a trip to Disney. Set on your balcony, soak it all in , and ask if it's really all that bad. If it is, time to sell.

Agree.

Given this thread, I assume the resale market has just sky-rocketed. BLT should be available for $80 per point soon...

Seriously, I think there are two groups who are increasingly unhappy (and probably shouldn't be), long time owners who are upset things aren't the way they were 1991-1995. Back then, DVC had no reputation and had to use incentives to get you to buy. Free park access was the incentive (people forget it was an incentive now a days). Same reason I won't by Marriott on points now, too new, too unknown, don't see how the conversion will play out just yet. But, succombing to "the good old days" syndrome, people think they're now owed those types of things as benefits, which they never were. They were perks and incentives, always subject to change.

The 2nd group are those who chose to listen to perks and incentives rather than base the decision soley on the reality of the purchase. A timeshare, available to be used at your home resort for a "fixed" number of points each year. Reallocation can happen, but you're save knowing total points in that resort for the year won't change. Sure Sunday could be 1 point per night and Friday 101, but overall, the resort totals won't change. People thought we were crazy for buying BLT at $114 instead of SSR or OKW resale for $65. I bought where I wanted to stay hedging against any future changes within the rights of DVC/DVD.

Trading out could go away tomorrow and I'd still own what I paid for. Sometimes, I think Disney's downfall is trying to go above and beyond, because when they can't or won't later - they get crucified. Just should have never done so from the start.

Adventures by Disney points went up exponentially, but that's not DVC's fault. DVC still has to pay for that space you used points for - we got what DVC was able to negotiate. Same with all the other non-guranteed perks of membership. You weren't guranteed those when you bought.

I will agree, communication could be better. That is true. Though, Aluani has been selling for what, four months now? I just got a brochure Saturday.

 

[goslingl]

I have sent an email. I will post what I get back.

 

[Petraman]

The "free" Internet is likely paid for by our dues, just like the "free" WDW transportation. They are unlikely to take something away that is paid for by members. On the other hand, when a member trades out for a cruise, DVC has to pay for it. If they can't recover the cost (by renting DVC rooms via CRO) then they will incur a loss. I suspect that things had gotten out of balance and they had to suspend DCL trades until things improve.

Why did they suspend trades out to DCL so abruptly? Who knows. Sounds like someone wasn't monitoring this as closely as they should have been and when the problem was noticed they had to take drastic action to protect quarterly profits. With the membership growing, lots of members trading out for cruises and CRO having to offer discounts to fill rooms, it's not hard to imagine how such a problem could arise.

But while I can understand the problem, I'm not happy about how they handled it, just as I wasn't happy when Mousekeeping marched into each studio at WDW and pulled the coffee mugs from the kitchenettes back during "mug gate" or when they reduced the pool temperature to 78 degrees during "pool gate".

hehe... Well said

 

[Petraman]

I added myself to the call list for our August 2011 Alaskan cruise. So I will let you know.

Here's a little help to make your dream come true

 

[JOANNEL]

Ah Good luck!! Did you already have a cruise booked on points or did you have a cash reservation you would like to change to points??

I had a cash reservation which I wanted to switch.

 

[JOANNEL]

Here's a little help to make your dream come true

Thank you.

 

[Dean]

I agree Dean, but for years, DVC put themselves on that pedestal as a very good marketing tool. Their mantra was they were not just your average timeshare, they were different and they were better. For years you would never hear DVC even mention the word timeshare.

For many if they saw DVC as being different, better, put them on pedestal, it is because that is what was sold to them by DVC.

More and more it seems to be just smoke and mirrors. I am not saying what they do offer is a bad product, because its not, but it is not what they sell you.

It was always just a timeshare that was being sold. Every system tries to set themselves apart in a way to improve sales. DVC was always perception vs reality, the reality really hasn't changed, just the perception.

I am saying if anyone expected more from Disney than other timeshares, if some bought with "pixie dust" in their eyes, it was because DVC was selling "pixie dust".

I think that's where we differ. I wouldn't expect anything else and would put the responsibility back on the buyer to discern fact from fiction, something I don't think DVC members have done a very good job of over the years if this BBS is any indication.

I expected them to tell the truth, I guess you saw them for what they truly are, just another timeshare hiding behind near truths. When we bought in they practiced what they preached, I do not find that to be true today.

I'm with Tim, I think it's mostly the perception that's changed more than reality. I do think the current management is more willing to make changes even if they are not that popular and in many ways, to me, that is a good thing. The reallocation is an example, it should have been done 10 years ago but the management at the time was so averse to upsetting members that they didn't do the right thing then, compounding the problems later.

I'm sorry some of you guys aren't happy. But to me, the base product is 95% the same as it's always been.

Except now we have more choices, including a monorail resort , a DLR respert and soon to be Hawaii. We have free Internet, nice new TV's and access to the dining plans. And if the downside is that it's hard to book a DCL cruise to Alaska on points, it just doesn't seem that big a downfall.

Something about message boards brings out the doom and gloom in people. When you feel that way, take a trip to Disney. Set on your balcony, soak it all in , and ask if it's really all that bad. If it is, time to sell.

Exactly. Other than the park passes going away (which was known and contractual) the contractual product hasn't changed though perks have come and gone. Overall the options are as good or better now than in the general past. No one can argue that communication has been their strong point as of late but given the reaction involved, I don't think they can win. If they give more time, they just get more complaints over a longer period of time.

I wonder is any one here is a lawyer and could scare Disney with some kind of lawsuit!!

I doubt Disney scares easily unless they know their on shaky ground. I see no basis for such a lawsuit as I described in a post a few pages ago.

I love how everyone keeps mentioning the free internet, how long till that is gone. It can't be long now.

The economics and circumstances are totally different. They could eliminate it and go back to a charge, anyone would be foolish if they didn't think it a possibility, but it's unlikely. And it's being paid for directly by those that do pay and by the membership. There really is no correlation between the 2.

I hate to disagree with you but this is OP own fault - Disney did not all of a sudden call her out of the blue and tell her to rebook her cruises. She is angry because DCL did not read her mind - that this is what she wanted to do and keep rooms handy just for her. I am sorry that there is no availablity for her to rebook on points - DCL is a limited room availablity that is just the way it is.

I just got off the phone with MS and booked a trip for February 2012 - was told that as of this time no avaiablity for 2011 through October and limited through December 2011. DCL is not stopping the booking of cruises on points. This is an availability issue not a policy change.

I am very sorry for Carol and hope that someone can help her out.

Technically you are correct, personal circumstances should not create emergencies for the system. However, we are all very sympathetic to Carol and anyone else caught in the change as we are to those caught by other changes (reallocation, valet parking). We are all thankful that Carol was able to get her circumstance remedied and hope that all else affected fare as well. I think most of us would agree that some sort of transitional flexibility would be appropriate for those caught through no fault of their own. Maybe the ability to convert back to DVC points as the main possibility.

 

[NewDCLGuy]

You do know they suspended all cruises, not just Alaska right through next Septemeber of 2011.

But I *don't* know that. I don't know what's going on. Some people say there are cruises available. Others say there aren't. Meanwhile, people are booking cruises. And there seems to be less availability. It's been one business day. Has there been a change? A temporary one? Permanent? A glitch? Is Disney playing games to make something look good for quarterly reporting? Beats the heck out of me. I'm willing to wait a bit before figuring out what changed and why. What I do know is that the OP had trouble booking their cruise, but did eventually book it.

Look, I get the fact that if you planned on booking a cruise, and can't.. .you are going to be angry and upset. My comment wasn't directed at those people. It was directed at those saying DVC has gone downhill, was so much better in the early days etc. For most things, it's essentially the same product, if anything, slightly better.

 

[Cmbar]

I had a cash reservation which I wanted to switch.

So they let you get on a call list for this? I thought it was absolutely no new bookings for Alaska. Doesn't that mean a cash to point reservation? How was the call list explained to you? Do you need a dvc member to cancel to get room or can you still keep your cabin you have booked?

I think I may try and call tomorrow to see what I can do with my Dream reservation. I am just so dissappointed that a MS rep told me to hold off on booking with points so I could get a discount. I think if the MS staff had had some knowledge that they were changing the policy soon for the next year she wouldn't have given me that advice. If I had known I wouldn't have held out for a few point discounts. UGH!

 

[JOANNEL]

So they let you get on a call list for this? I thought it was absolutely no new bookings for Alaska. Doesn't that mean a cash to point reservation? How was the call list explained to you? Do you need a dvc member to cancel to get room or can you still keep your cabin you have booked?

I think I may try and call tomorrow to see what I can do with my Dream reservation. I am just so dissappointed that a MS rep told me to hold off on booking with points so I could get a discount. I think if the MS staff had had some knowledge that they were changing the policy soon for the next year she wouldn't have given me that advice. If I had known I wouldn't have held out for a few point discounts. UGH!

Yes, another cabin has to be cancelled that was booked with points.

 

[LIFERBABE]

I believe there is an availability issue.

DVC was never promised unlimited inventory for cruising. The economy has been bad and maybe they allowed increased bookings to DVC in the past, because of it.

When the Dream released it's bookings last year, I called the first day, knowing there would be limited inventory to DVC. I actually posted that I was surprised DCL released these popular sailings to DVC bookings. I thought they would try to get as much as they could for the Dream and then give DVC what was left.

The Dream Inagural sailing is the first time I used points for cruising. Im sure the Dream prompted many members to stop holding onto their points so tightly and book a cruise on points. The money is already spent and budgeted for DVC members. No new funds are needed to book a cruise on points. You dont need park passes. I could have rented, but I was concerned about availability and the whole bird in the hand thing.

Using points for trading out is like using frequent flier miles. Availability has always been subject to change.