Legal question?

[minnie56]

I am wondering...

Our DD23 attends school in NYC. She has been there for a year and is looking to move into a studio or 1 bdrm apt. Currently--she rooms in a 3 bdrm with 2 other girls. We are going through the renting drill again..and as last time, the Management companies and/or Landlords ask for Income tax verification with copies of such and copies of Bank statements. My husband has such a problem offering up his bank statements in these times of identity theft though he does block out account/transit number information.

Soooo ..that all said. Can they legally ask for this? We are assuming yes...but thought as we are in Canada and not 100% sure, it might be worth asking!

Thanks!

 

[Floridagal23]

My parents guaranteed my apartment and always had to submit tax stuff. I think we were able to get away with a savings account statement once. I know my BF used a statement from his employer stating that his salary was XYZ instead and it was ok with his building. Generally, the bigger buildings want to see more documentation than when you're dealing with an individual landlord.

 

[tvguy]

I haven't been in the rental market in over 27 years. Back then you gave them your employer name and salary, and social security number. They called your boss to verify employment and salary, and ran a credit check using your social security number. That was it

We just helped our son in college get an apartment, what a nightmare. Plus, now they charge YOU to run a credit check. I would think that would be one of THEIR costs of doing business. And they charge you when you move out to clean the carpets, again, that used to be one of THEIR costs of doing business.
New York is one of the strictist rent control states in the U.S. so I suspect everything is on the up and up.

 

[minnie56]

I think we thought having done this once already..a reference from her current management company reflecting a good history for this past year and maybe the income tax and letter from employer might suffice without copious bank documents too. Also had our Banker provide a letter of reference but wow...this gets tedious.....and feels such an invasion.

Guess that's our hang up..

Thanks for the help!

 

[crazyme5kids]

Maybe you could look into subletting, or she might be able to find someone who already has an apartment but needs a roommate.

 

[minnie56]

She doesn't want a roomie...and we are fine w/subletting except they seem to discourage because the tenant often doesn't get their deposit back unless they get the person taking over the lease to sign for another year

Oh well--we'll work it out.

Thanks for the thoughts..

 

[Imzadi]

I've been living in NYC for a few decades. So the last time I had to give all that rental info was the same as tvguy. However, when I rented for a short time in CA, a few years ago, they did want extraordinary amount of info. And yes, they also tacked on all those added fees he mentioned.

What I can tell you is that one law in NYC is: "Possession is nine tenths of the law." What that means is that once a tenant has taken possession of an apartment, (moved his stuff in, is living there,) even if he hasn't paid his rent for several months or is in violation of certain building codes, etc., the landlord cannot just one day, when the tenant is out, change the locks & throw his stuff into the street. He must go to court and go through a lengthy court process to have the tenant evicted by the court. that process could take another 6 months or more. So the tenant could stand to lose a YEAR or rent. $3000/month x 12 months is a LOT to lose. Sometimes the landlord doesn't get back rent back. They just want the tenant gone.

Maybe you can understand why the management companies want to make sure they aren't the ones being ripped off with a bad, flakey, unreliable, non-paying tenant. So, what understandably to you, are major privacy violations, and possibly identity theft, are basically them protecting themselves. (Again, I don't know what they are asking for now, and if it's all legal.) Even the basics, which tvguy mentioned from 27 years ago, are enough for basic identity theft.

That said, there are unscrupulous types in NYC. Make sure DD actually sees the actual apartments first. That you research that the management companies DO exist and do manage or own buildings. Never give info for an ad you/DD found on Craigslist or in the papers, that wants your credit report & identity info even before she sees & has been in the apartment. Why would they need that even before DD has decided whether she wants it or not?


As for subleasing, I don't quite understand what the problem is. (Feeel free to re-explain it. ) When I first attended to NYU, some century ago, I actually lived with roommates in better and bigger apartments, for less rent, than the one I am currently in now. I was actually offered the option to take over each lease, for only a slight increase in rent, versus getting a new apartment at the current market value rental price.

Some of the rentals required/offered adding me as a co-tenant to the current lease, or the landlords would have simply written a new lease in my name with the small percentage increases allowed by rent control laws.

I didn't want to do either. I also didn't want a roommate at the time. I didn't think I needed a bigger space and didn't want to fork over the extra rent for them. I didn't future think. I always knew I was going to live in NYC the majority of my life.

I gave up those places, looked around, only to find out NEW leases at current market value prices were 1/3 MORE that what I had been paying, for smaller spaces than those I had already given up.

In retrospect, as rents overall grew and this place seems to have gotten smaller , had I known I would be staying in the same place for years/decades, those bigger places, for the more money at the time, would actually have been a steal comparatively. Both rents will always go up. I'd always be paying less over all and over time on the original place where I took over the lease, even if I paid an extra deposit, or a "fee" to the current tenant <cough> to make sure I was added to the lease so I could properly and legally take over the lease when they left.

If DD plans to stay in NYC for 3-5 years or more, she might want to rethink what options are available.

 

[Sparx]

I rent in Tennessee and all we had to submit were two sequential paychecks to prove that we made 3.145xs the rent.

 

[Imzadi]

I rent in Tennessee and all we had to submit were two sequential paychecks to prove that we made 3.145xs the rent.

I can definitely say, I know that won't fly in NYC. There are too many short term/temp jobs in which someone can be work for 2 paychecks, and then be out of work for months.

 

[Sparx]

I can definitely say, I know that won't fly in NYC. There are too many short term/temp jobs in which someone can be work for 2 paychecks, and then be out of work for months.

I hadn't thought about a temp job.

There was a list of papers that we could provide when we moved in to verify our income, but printing off two paystubs was definitely the easiest one. I think bank statements were accepted but I'm not sure about tax returns.

That sounds like a hassle to go through blocking out all of the information on those documents though, OP!

 

[Imzadi]

I hadn't thought about a temp job.

There was a list of papers that we could provide when we moved in to verify our income, but printing off two paystubs was definitely the easiest one. I think bank statements were accepted but I'm not sure about tax returns.

That sounds like a hassle to go through blocking out all of the information on those documents though, OP!

I actually love that it's so simple to get a place in TN. Life, in an atmosphere where people actually still trust each other! And people are known to be good for their word. <sigh!>

 

[NewDCLGuy]

My husband has such a problem offering up his bank statements in these times of identity theft though he does block out account/transit number information.

You mean the numbers that are printed on every single check you've ever written?

 

[minnie56]

You mean the numbers that are printed on every single check you've ever written?

No
I write 12 post dated cheques on my US account. There's enough in there only to cover her rent at any given time. Month to month.

They want the banking info here at the 'source' of that money...

 

[minnie56]

I've been living in NYC for a few decades. So the last time I had to give all that rental info was the same as tvguy. However, when I rented for a short time in CA, a few years ago, they did want extraordinary amount of info. And yes, they also tacked on all those added fees he mentioned.

What I can tell you is that one law in NYC is: "Possession is nine tenths of the law." What that means is that once a tenant has taken possession of an apartment, (moved his stuff in, is living there,) even if he hasn't paid his rent for several months or is in violation of certain building codes, etc., the landlord cannot just one day, when the tenant is out, change the locks & throw his stuff into the street. He must go to court and go through a lengthy court process to have the tenant evicted by the court. that process could take another 6 months or more. So the tenant could stand to lose a YEAR or rent. $3000/month x 12 months is a LOT to lose. Sometimes the landlord doesn't get back rent back. They just want the tenant gone.

Maybe you can understand why the management companies want to make sure they aren't the ones being ripped off with a bad, flakey, unreliable, non-paying tenant. So, what understandably to you, are major privacy violations, and possibly identity theft, are basically them protecting themselves. (Again, I don't know what they are asking for now, and if it's all legal.) Even the basics, which tvguy mentioned from 27 years ago, are enough for basic identity theft.

That said, there are unscrupulous types in NYC. Make sure DD actually sees the actual apartments first. That you research that the management companies DO exist and do manage or own buildings. Never give info for an ad you/DD found on Craigslist or in the papers, that wants your credit report & identity info even before she sees & has been in the apartment. Why would they need that even before DD has decided whether she wants it or not?


As for subleasing, I don't quite understand what the problem is. (Feeel free to re-explain it. ) When I first attended to NYU, some century ago, I actually lived with roommates in better and bigger apartments, for less rent, than the one I am currently in now. I was actually offered the option to take over each lease, for only a slight increase in rent, versus getting a new apartment at the current market value rental price.

Some of the rentals required/offered adding me as a co-tenant to the current lease, or the landlords would have simply written a new lease in my name with the small percentage increases allowed by rent control laws.

I didn't want to do either. I also didn't want a roommate at the time. I didn't think I needed a bigger space and didn't want to fork over the extra rent for them. I didn't future think. I always knew I was going to live in NYC the majority of my life.

I gave up those places, looked around, only to find out NEW leases at current market value prices were 1/3 MORE that what I had been paying, for smaller spaces than those I had already given up. I finally did find a fabulous place and have been rent controlled for decades now. Rent controlled/stabilized places at a decades old rents are gold in NYC. It also means I can't move. Not unless I want to fork over significant amounts of money for rent or a co-op and my lifestyle goes back to eating mac & cheese and PB&J for dinners.

In retrospect, as rents overall grew and this place seems to have gotten smaller , had I known I would be staying in the same place for years/decades, those bigger places, for the more money at the time, would actually have been a steal comparatively. Even a couple years later, the same size place at market value prices, were incredibly more than if I had taken one of those original places & paid all the extra rent for a couple years, or the extra deposit, or a "fee" to the current tenant <cough> to make sure I was added to the lease so I could properly and legally take over the lease when they left.

If DD plans to stay in NYC for 3-5 years or more, she might want to rethink what options are available.

When she has viewed sublets thus far--the deal seems to be between the current tenant and my daughter. The Landlord prefers a new 12 year month lease as does the tenant telling her (current tenant) that she won't get her deposit back should someone take over the existing lease. Seems vague to me as I am sure my daughter will also be up for a deposit as well

They always seem to want the Income tax proof verifying 12x the monthly rent in income (!!) Bank Statements, letter from our Bank as well as the fees of 1st month, deposit and in many cases, brokers fee's. We have her boyfriend down there with her now making sure that all is above board as well. We will go if necessary and certainly at moving time....

 

[suzannecstarr]

Renters have tons of rights in NY state but all laws seem to fly out the window when you enter the 5 boroughs. If you scroll down half way on this page

http://www.ag.ny.gov/bureaus/consumer_frauds/housing_issues.html

you can dl a pdf of the state renters rights guide. I have found it useful in the past.

 

[crazyme5kids]

When my daughter first moved to Brooklyn, her first apartment was a 9 month sublet. The second apartment she rented was one in which she and her friend took over the lease. The apartment she is in now, which is huge,was a straight new lease through the landlord.
Don't rule out roommates, there are times my daughter goes days (sometimes longer) without seeing hers.

 

[minnie56]

Oh I know - roomies are fine. She completed 4 years of University with roomates and has had them during this past year at College in NYC. She thinks it might be nice to be alone for awhile now..and that's fine with us.

 

[Imzadi]

When she has viewed sublets thus far--the deal seems to be between the current tenant and my daughter. The Landlord prefers a new 12 year month lease as does the tenant telling her (current tenant) that she won't get her deposit back should someone take over the existing lease. Seems vague to me as I am sure my daughter will also be up for a deposit as well

If I'm getting you right, that's because it would appear that the current tenant is still on the lease, or at least, the rental rate is about the same, with only a slight increase. They are turning OVER that rate to DD. So DD you have to pay the deposit on the apartment directly to the current tenant.

And, probably yes, she may pay the landlord another deposit too.

Look at the math I quoted in my post. ANY lease currently in effect is going to be less than ANY NEW lease DD signs. New leases are allowed by law to charge the current full market value. Anyone with a current lease (to be taken over,) will have rates close to when they first signed the lease a year or more ago.

Even if DD to pays TWO deposits, it wiill probably add up to be less money than the difference paid out monthly on a higher lease. If she stays in NYC for a couple years, she would be paying a cheaper rent throughout the length of her tenancy, even if she pays a deposit at first.

Renters have tons of rights in NY state but all laws seem to fly out the window when you enter the 5 boroughs. If you scroll down half way on this page

http://www.ag.ny.gov/bureaus/consumer_frauds/housing_issues.html

you can dl a pdf of the state renters rights guide. I have found it useful in the past.

I believe the NYC (in the boroughs) rental laws are a bit different (or more extensive,) from the rest of the state. There are a different set of problems/circumstances we have. We are an animal unto ourselves.

 

[minnie56]

Yes, I would assume she would/could pay out the current tenant and also possibly pay another deposit to the LL herself. Works about the same with those apt where she finds it via a broker. They take a fee (usually 15% of the annual rent) and she's still up of course for the deposit. Double whammy either way

 

[RUDisney]

Friends of ours have a DD in NYC. After her father had to submit his tax returns to the realtor, the realtor became VERY interested in dating our friends' DD.

Thankfully, she listened to her mother and only went out to dinner with him once. No future inlaws want their future SIL to know exactly what Dad puts on his tax return.