Leak of the DTD make over

[Shelly F - Ohio]

Here is a link to the leaked DTD make over

http://wdwnt.com/leaked-concept-art-details-disney-springs-set-to-replace-downtown-disney-at-wdw/

 

[jlewisinsyr]

Still thinking this is DOA.

 

[Postal68]

This area has sucked since they closed Pleasure Island

 

[doconeill]

So, they're re-inventing the whole concept about the "birth" of the area?!? It can't just be what it is?

Now I see what they meant about an "overhead train" - they really want to make it look like an abandoned El railway?

I had earlier heard that "Disney Springs" was not the final name.

The article says that Pleasure Island is to become Town Center, but I think they really mean the central area between West Side and Marketplace that didn't really have a name, but was where the PI bus stop was. Their own annotations on the picture show that Town Center is not on PI itself.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This area has sucked since they closed Pleasure Island

In alot of ways it sucked before PI closed.

PI was a fan favorite (especially with the CP/frat party crowd)...but it was plagued by too many extended low occupancy periods.

Could it have stayed or had some new life infused in it? of course
but Disney looks towards revenues/profits in the Billions now...millions aren't good enough anymore.
PI was never gonna last as is. There also has been some "de-Eisner" movements over the past 5 years. Which in some ways can be good...in other ways are short sighted and somewhat of a lack of gratitude.
Eisner was the primary champion of PI...he never backed away from the idea of "adult" offerings.
But adults don't buy as much disney chinese junk for themselves as they do for kids...so all things ultimately yield back to the giftshop in strategic direction.
In this case: the desire to have somebody else sell it for you and collect fees without any overhead.

The closure of PI was also a stupidity move based on the real estate bubble. just goes to show that you can sit on billions of operating capital and have 1000 Wharton grads working for you...but they got sucked into the stupidity of the "phony money" market that sucked most mom and pops in...and based at least this decision - i believe - on the belief that somehow a ludicrous bubble wouldn't break. Two ounces of common sense per person couldn't have broken the whole cycle of stupidity on that - the numbers never added up. An international ponzie/pyramid scheme.

Back to development:
At this point (and I'm a harsh critic)..i just want them to do "something" and put the needed capital infusion back into the place. In a way...i'm giving them carte blanche and hoping that the public embraces whatever they do -lest they put up anymore south american fried chicken places or balloons.
Parodoxical reasoning from me on this one.

from 97-05...after the west side addition (minus of course planet hollywood)...the area was very impressive.
It has fallen into decay...a trend that has been repeated in other places at their "flagship, cash cow" destination

I have never/will never let disney off the hook for that. Not for a second.
It costs too much...they make too much...the public should demand more.
We pay for it.

Disneyland customers rejected DCA and they got a billion dollar overhaul (it took patience and time...but they got it). If only WDW clientele (and there are alot more of them) could grow some stones for five years and hold the line on something like this - they took something away that you not only are still paying for...you're paying MORE for.

In my world...people would stop dumping Franklins into World of Disney for a couple of years.
Wonder how fast we'd see some movement then?

Iger would be out there with a shovel himself...and Erin Wallace and Al Weiss would have been pushing the wheelbarrow.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Just as an FYI...

I hardly ever believe internet leaks...

But this concept art looks very "Disney" to me.
Especially since it includes a parking deck, crossover waterbridge to marketplace (which is a must for any renovation from all logical angles) and also some semi-enclosed spaces - similar to other indoor/outdoor venues that you see in tourist spots.

Makes alot of sense.

traffic coming in and out of that deck would be a nightmare though unless they get some more intelligent street lights on Buena Vista Drive though

The only other thing that would make sense is a "better" tie in to Saratoga...the ugly little brother of DVC that needs some more association to DTD so perhaps it wont be the booking of last resort forever (unlikely though)
UPDATE...they've got that on there...i would be hoping for a more "over water" option though...looks like they don't shave much off the path as the concept is designed

 

[doconeill]

The only other thing that would make sense is a "better" tie in to Saratoga...the ugly little brother of DVC that needs some more association to DTD so perhaps it wont be the booking of last resort forever (unlikely though)
UPDATE...they've got that on there...i would be hoping for a more "over water" option though...looks like they don't shave much off the path as the concept is designed

It is a _bit_ better. I don't think you'll feel as much like you're leaving property as it did before, since you essentially walked out to the road and took the sidewalk past the bus stops.

 

[Disco]

Hmm,
Don't hate it. Better than nothing. PI was flawed in that it was the middle of the entire project. Just wish they would try it again with this new concept maybe off to the side.
I find the bridge funny. It bypasses the World of Disney so I wouldn't think they wouldn't keep it. However, thinking about it more, the problem is really that there will be less traffic up to the "Village Marketplace" with the removal of the bus stop. The bridge will entice people over to that area.

 

[nuts]

Hmmmm, I am now questioning the reality of the pictures. Look at the first one. Look specifically at SSR. Notice that it only shows Congress Park? The Paddocks shows undeveloped. Could this have been an older concept from years ago (during early stages of SSR)?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Hmmmm, I am now questioning the reality of the pictures. Look at the first one. Look specifically at SSR. Notice that it only shows Congress Park? The Paddocks shows undeveloped. Could this have been an older concept from years ago (during early stages of SSR)?

Certainly possible....

Though that doesn't completely discount the possibility that they dusted off a different concept and went forward with it.

Five years ago they were making a fortune off everything on property...that slowed with economic troubles on the grander scale.

Maybe what they were planning years ago was simpler and just meant to put up storefronts that were "good enough" to create new revenue streams - and now they've decided to invest a little more?
Heck...maybe the opposite is true?

We'll never know.

 

[doconeill]

I'm sure they've been coming up wit a variety of concept arts for at least a decade as part of blue sky plans for DTD...they could have just used the basic plan of one of those. And it doesn't mean it's the final plan, either. I'm sure it will be scaled back in the end

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm sure they've been coming up wit a variety of concept arts for at least a decade as part of blue sky plans for DTD...they could have just used the basic plan of one of those. And it doesn't mean it's the final plan, either. I'm sure it will be scaled back in the end

I reject this...

Give me one good example of when they scaled anything back?

Wait a minute...it's the opposite...nevermind.

BUMP

 

[pilferk]

In alot of ways it sucked before PI closed.

PI was a fan favorite (especially with the CP/frat party crowd)...but it was plagued by too many extended low occupancy periods.

Could it have stayed or had some new life infused in it? of course
but Disney looks towards revenues/profits in the Billions now...millions aren't good enough anymore.
PI was never gonna last as is. There also has been some "de-Eisner" movements over the past 5 years. Which in some ways can be good...in other ways are short sighted and somewhat of a lack of gratitude.
Eisner was the primary champion of PI...he never backed away from the idea of "adult" offerings.
But adults don't buy as much disney chinese junk for themselves as they do for kids...so all things ultimately yield back to the giftshop in strategic direction.
In this case: the desire to have somebody else sell it for you and collect fees without any overhead.

The closure of PI was also a stupidity move based on the real estate bubble. just goes to show that you can sit on billions of operating capital and have 1000 Wharton grads working for you...but they got sucked into the stupidity of the "phony money" market that sucked most mom and pops in...and based at least this decision - i believe - on the belief that somehow a ludicrous bubble wouldn't break. Two ounces of common sense per person couldn't have broken the whole cycle of stupidity on that - the numbers never added up. An international ponzie/pyramid scheme.

Rant on.

You could see the writing on the wall for PI as soon as they removed the admission component from it. Once they did that...you knew it was over. Because you knew the local, underage kids were going to flock to the area and either try to get booze, or just act like they were getting booze. You could see the "security issues" coming, and the "atmosphere" that people wanted getting destroyed. All because Disney wanted to drive foot traffic to the West Side, and, rather than invest in an easier way to do that, decided that PI was the appropriate "bridge".

We used to go to PI every trip. Comedy Warehouse, Adventurers club, and maybe some dancing at Mannequins or 8-traks. But once the "kids" started to invade...it just wasn't fun anymore. The local adults, who helped support the clubs, seemed to feel the same way. The wanted a little more "disnified" Church Street Station....a one stop "shopping" (or, in this case, drinking) venue to hang out with their friends (and, often, CM's). Once the (WAY) under 18 crowd came in, that was more or less out the window and it became a teen hangout.

Now, it didn't help that Disney isn't exactly quick about changing their clubs offerings, either. I would agree with people who point out that some of their dance clubs could have been managed with an eye toward keeping things a little fresher (and not 5 to 10 years out of "cool"). But, still, I think that's a much smaller factor.

Anyway...sorry for the rant....

 

[dgramling]

The one issue I see with the plan is still parking they are adding the 5 level parking garage. In looking at the plan I'm seeing that they are covering 3 levels worth of parking. Having been in many garages they never seem to have as many spaces as a lot of similar size so they don't seem to be adding any capacity if they add a few more levels then they will start to add capacity to the lot. I love that they are going down to one bus stop with nothing else this will shorten the ride back from DD without a stop at PI then West Side.

 

[Radiorox]

That whole thing looks just like Bayside Marketplace here in Miami... Pffft.

 

[freediverdude]

Looks like a mall with a parking garage. People can do that in their hometown.

 

[ChrisnKim913]

I really don't understand the bashing. Obviously it is going to be better than what is currently there now. Not everyone is close to a huge shopping center with restaurants and nightlife on the water with great scenery back where they live. Downtown Disney already draws in big crowds, just imagine how big crowds will be now with a place actually full of shops instead of a deserted island. We have to think outside the box (or florida to those of us that live here). The outlets in orlando are very piopular with out of town tourists and now better than ever, disney can keep them on property at their shopping center (we all know it wont be an outlet). Will be interesting to see what the actual plans will call for.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That whole thing looks just like Bayside Marketplace here in Miami... Pffft.

LOL!

That was EXACTLY what I was thinking when I first saw it.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

That whole thing looks just like Bayside Marketplace here in Miami... Pffft.

~I agree, lol. But, it's still an improvement overall, plus there's a train in the works! We'll see.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It should be pointed out that Bayside Village has done what Disney would want....manages to incorporate the tourist crowd while
Maintaining some local appeal/buzz for the local population.
Whether you love it or not.

They have to do both...can't hope for only tourists while turning off Orlando...and can't make it a hangout for reject teenagers who look like extras from the Fast and the Furious.

Size will cure that...the bigger it is...the more buzz it will have.
Like bugs to a light