just curious dont want this to get out of control bathroom use

[tony67]

Like in your office building? I wouldn't want to work someplace where I'm scared to go to the bathroom!

No - but in a public space. Who even goes into an office anymore
Any office I worked in would be high security, keycards cameras etc...

A lot of crime is about opportunity more than anything else.
Someone may be looking to commit a crime but they are looking for the right opportunity as well.
Wrong place wrong time. etc..

Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you.
People have been mugged in restroom is busy clubs.

In the end its probably as rare as incidents this thread is talking about - but lets not act like there are not issues with homeless, drug addicts etc,, in rest rooms.

 

[GreatLakes]

I don't care if a trans individual uses the bathroom while I'm in there, I would very likely not even notice. I never understood why this is such an issue, well, other than sword rattling to distract us from real issues.

I don't care what gender you want to live your life as. Tell me the pronouns you want me to use and we can all just go about our day.

 

[Living42Day]

This. A person's preferred clothing has exactly zero to do with whether they're a criminal, and criminals can't be grouped by clothing. In other words, there is no amount of criminal profiling (the real, scientific kind as opposed to the fearmongering kind) that can be done based on someone's clothing habits. Now, if you want to create a meaningful profile, and you've watched the suspect for a while, it could be useful to say something like, "Generally dresses in jeans and T-shirts" or "often in business casual." Or if you saw a specific person doing something specifically sketchy, you might say, "suspect last seen wearing a party dress and tiara." But those are the details that matter, not whether or not the person's clothing happens to conform to societal gender norms.

Never said it was suspects. I said it is important to differentiate VICTIMS because it can change the motive...

 

[CdnCarrie]

No - but in a public space. Who even goes into an office anymore
Any office I worked in would be high security, keycards cameras etc...

A lot of crime is about opportunity more than anything else.
Someone may be looking to commit a crime but they are looking for the right opportunity as well.
Wrong place wrong time. etc..

Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you.
People have been mugged in restroom is busy clubs.

In the end its probably as rare as incidents this thread is talking about - but lets not act like there are not issues with homeless, drug addicts etc,, in rest rooms.

You still never answered where all these public bathrooms are that you seem so worried about being mugged in.

I’m paranoid about what?

I go into an office daily. People actually do.

 

[ronandannette]

You still never answered where all these public bathrooms are that you seem so worried about being mugged in.

I’m paranoid about what?

I go into an office daily. People actually do.

Probably time to just rest in the fact that we're blessed to "not get" the anxiety that a lot of our DIS friends have to face, living in much higher-crime areas. That's not a slam, just how it is here. I really couldn't muster the fear of being a crime victim if I tried. Could it happen? Sure. Will it? Almost certainly not.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Probably time to just rest in the fact that we're blessed to "not get" the anxiety that a lot of our DIS friends have to face, living in much higher-crime areas. That's not a slam, just how it is here. I really couldn't muster the fear of being a crime victim if I tried. Could it happen? Sure. Will it? Almost certainly not.

True.
Some of the posts here make me feel bad for how scared people are to live everyday lives. It must be hard to live with that level of anxiety.

 

[JLTraveling]

Probably time to just rest in the fact that we're blessed to "not get" the anxiety that a lot of our DIS friends have to face, living in much higher-crime areas. That's not a slam, just how it is here. I really couldn't muster the fear of being a crime victim if I tried. Could it happen? Sure. Will it? Almost certainly not.

What really confuses me is that I both have anxiety and live in a high crime area. But I still can't fathom getting freaked out about public bathrooms or what gender somebody is. As I've said before, I'm not scared, but I am aware. I believe street smarts can go a long way toward curbing those fears.

 

[tony67]

You still never answered where all these public bathrooms are that you seem so worried about being mugged in.

I’m paranoid about what?

I go into an office daily. People actually do.

Didn't say you were paranoid - somewhat of a well known quote - was actually saying just because I am paranoid does not mean they are out to get me.

The issue in public bathrooms - and there are public bathroom's in cities, in train station, in pubs, in Starbucks etc... etc.. - you are at a disadvantage and distracted - you are looking at the wall and taking care of business.

I havn't had to go into an office for many years - even before the pandemic I worked remote - many more people stopped going into an office during the pandemic. Some of them are starting to go back recently.
Again was more of a joke than anything.

If you havn't had to use a public bathroom after a night out in the city because you have no choice and have to commute home about an hour and not seen anything odd then you must live in the perfect place.

To others its not really anxiety - if it was I probably would not use the public bathroom at all - its just being cautions and being aware of your surroundings. Living in a city where people have randomly been hit up side the head with a brick for no reason, yeah you want to keep an eye open.

BTW - I have been mugged more than once - not in a bathroom - so yeah you want to be on your toes and avoid situation where you would be mugged.

 

[Disneychick13]

True.
Some of the posts here make me feel bad for how scared people are to live everyday lives. It must be hard to live with that level of anxiety.

What really confuses me is that I both have anxiety and live in a high crime area. But I still can't fathom getting freaked out about public bathrooms or what gender somebody is. As I've said before, I'm not scared, but I am aware. I believe street smarts can go a long way toward curbing those fears.

I don’t think it’s a situation for most people on this issue that they are “scared to live everyday lives“ or are “getting freaked out about public bathrooms or what gender somebody is”. Most public restroom are not unisex. They are gendered. (Having unisex bathroom is a separate discussion that has pros and cons.) Statistically around half of people (male and female) would prefer to use a bathroom with only those of the same sex. It is a privacy issue. It is a comfort issue. And yes it can be a safety issue. I’m not saying that it is likely to be assaulted or be peeped on in a female bathroom. But if it were to happen (and it does happen) it will almost certainly be by a man. Not a trans woman. Not a bio woman. That‘s why it shouldn’t be shocking that a woman would give pause if she encounters a biological man in a bathroom. And why she wouldn’t pause if she saw a trans woman that is indistinguishable from a bio woman. It’s not about people being afraid for their lives, it’s about being cautious and mitigating their risk. Let’s be frank, even if you are the most progressive social justice warrior, if you saw a 6 ft tall 200 lb man walk into the female bathroom it would at least give you pause before you would let your 9 year old girl go in there by herself.

 

[JLTraveling]

I don’t think it’s a situation for most people on this issue that they are “scared to live everyday lives“ or are “getting freaked out about public bathrooms or what gender somebody is”. Most public restroom are not unisex. They are gendered. (Having unisex bathroom is a separate discussion that has pros and cons.) Statistically around half of people (male and female) would prefer to use a bathroom with only those of the same sex. It is a privacy issue. It is a comfort issue. And yes it can be a safety issue. I’m not saying that it is likely to be assaulted or be peeped on in a female bathroom. But if it were to happen (and it does happen) it will almost certainly be by a man. Not a trans woman. Not a bio woman. That‘s why it shouldn’t be shocking that a woman would give pause if she encounters a biological man in a bathroom. And why she wouldn’t pause if she saw a trans woman that is indistinguishable from a bio woman. It’s not about people being afraid for their lives, it’s about being cautious and mitigating their risk. Let’s be frank, even if you are the most progressive social justice warrior, if you saw a 6 ft tall 200 lb man walk into the female bathroom it would at least give you pause before you would let your 9 year old girl go in there by herself.

Bio women don't assault women in public bathrooms? The one and only time I've been assaulted in a public bathroom was when I was 12. I was in a summer day camp program, and one of the older girls assaulted me and stole money from me in the bathroom. Both I and my parents reported it to staff, whose response was basically, "Stuff happens. You need to learn to defend yourself." And I've known a few female tweakers in my time who were way more violent and dangerous than any man I've ever encountered. But sure, only men commit assault.

If I saw a 6 ft tall 200 lb man enter a female bathroom, I'd take a look at the situation. If he's dressed in drag, I wouldn't give it a second thought. Much safer for that person to use the ladies' room than the men's. If he goes into the bathroom, does his business, and comes out, I could care less (maybe he's a transgender man who's following what so many people say they want and using the bathroom of his biologically assigned sex). If he starts skulking around being weird and creepy, I'm reporting him. But I'm also reporting the bio woman or trans woman who's skulking around the bathroom being weird and creepy. Behavior, not appearance.

 

[Suger Mag]

Bio women don't assault women in public bathrooms? The one and only time I've been assaulted in a public bathroom was when I was 12. I was in a summer day camp program, and one of the older girls assaulted me and stole money from me in the bathroom. Both I and my parents reported it to staff, whose response was basically, "Stuff happens. You need to learn to defend yourself." And I've known a few female tweakers in my time who were way more violent and dangerous than any man I've ever encountered. But sure, only men commit assault.

If I saw a 6 ft tall 200 lb man enter a female bathroom, I'd take a look at the situation. If he's dressed in drag, I wouldn't give it a second thought. Much safer for that person to use the ladies' room than the men's. If he goes into the bathroom, does his business, and comes out, I could care less (maybe he's a transgender man who's following what so many people say they want and using the bathroom of his biologically assigned sex). If he starts skulking around being weird and creepy, I'm reporting him. But I'm also reporting the bio woman or trans woman who's skulking around the bathroom being weird and creepy. Behavior, not appearance.

you bring up a good point. this is a catch 22... screwed either way?

So if you are a trans male (born female, transitioned to male)... and for all intent and purpose appear typically normative male: beard, clothing etc... but according to the various anti trans bathroom laws being enacted / proposed (for example must use the bathroom of the gender on the birth cert)...

so if that person is supposed to use the bathroom according to their biological sex... and are supposed to go into the woman's' bathroom as in theory that is their birth gender... but then that is going to freak out folks like Disneychick13?

I don’t think it’s a situation for most people on this issue that they are “scared to live everyday lives“ or are “getting freaked out about public bathrooms or what gender somebody is”. Most public restroom are not unisex. They are gendered. (Having unisex bathroom is a separate discussion that has pros and cons.) Statistically around half of people (male and female) would prefer to use a bathroom with only those of the same sex. It is a privacy issue. It is a comfort issue. And yes it can be a safety issue. I’m not saying that it is likely to be assaulted or be peeped on in a female bathroom. But if it were to happen (and it does happen) it will almost certainly be by a man. Not a trans woman. Not a bio woman. That‘s why it shouldn’t be shocking that a woman would give pause if she encounters a biological man in a bathroom. And why she wouldn’t pause if she saw a trans woman that is indistinguishable from a bio woman. It’s not about people being afraid for their lives, it’s about being cautious and mitigating their risk. Let’s be frank, even if you are the most progressive social justice warrior, if you saw a 6 ft tall 200 lb man walk into the female bathroom it would at least give you pause before you would let your 9 year old girl go in there by herself.

So what are they supposed to do? Just not use a bathroom at all?

What about a single dad with a little girl... no family bathroom... should he take the little girl into the mens or the woman's room? I mean it is fair game for mom and their sons?

Sigh.... Just let folks use a bathroom in peace

 

[mjkacmom]

you bring up a good point. this is a catch 22... screwed either way?

So if you are a trans male (born female, transitioned to male)... and for all intent and purpose appear typically normative male: beard, clothing etc... but according to the various anti trans bathroom laws being enacted / proposed (for example must use the bathroom of the gender on the birth cert)...

so if that person is supposed to use the bathroom according to their biological sex... and are supposed to go into the woman's' bathroom as in theory that is their birth gender... but then that is going to freak out folks like Disneychick13?


So what are they supposed to do? Just not use a bathroom at all?

What about a single dad with a little girl... no family bathroom... should he take the little girl into the mens or the woman's room? I mean it is fair game for mom and their sons?

Sigh.... Just let folks use a bathroom in peace

The transgendered men I know have had their breast tissue removed, and have full beards, I don’t think there would be a lot of comfort for anyone in that bathroom situation.

 

[leahgoogle]

So what are they supposed to do? Just not use a bathroom at all?

What about a single dad with a little girl... no family bathroom... should he take the little girl into the mens or the woman's room? I mean it is fair game for mom and their sons?

Sigh.... Just let folks use a bathroom in peace

Most places have a unisex or family bathroom now. Even our Target has a family bathroom back in the pharmacy area. You just have to ask.

 

[Suger Mag]

Most places have a unisex or family bathroom now. Even our Target has a family bathroom back in the pharmacy area. You just have to ask.

I was asking when there was no family bathroom available. What is a single dad supposed to do?

 

[TheIncredibles!]

True.
Some of the posts here make me feel bad for how scared people are to live everyday lives. It must be hard to live with that level of anxiety.

There are many different levels of anxiety and some are very debilitating and have horrible effects on the people around them also. I have anxiety (and OCD, all diagnosed and in continued therapy for the past 6 years total etc) But also please know.... people sometimes call it anxiety when in fact they are just resistant to change are less than open minded etc.

People with anxiety usually very much do not WANT to feel or think the things they are thinking or feeling and would like to be educated, learn and grow so they can feel better and less anxious in the world. Judgy people rest comfortably in their judgement and don't care about changing it.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Didn't say you were paranoid - somewhat of a well known quote - was actually saying just because I am paranoid does not mean they are out to get me.

The issue in public bathrooms - and there are public bathroom's in cities, in train station, in pubs, in Starbucks etc... etc.. - you are at a disadvantage and distracted - you are looking at the wall and taking care of business.

I havn't had to go into an office for many years - even before the pandemic I worked remote - many more people stopped going into an office during the pandemic. Some of them are starting to go back recently.
Again was more of a joke than anything.

If you havn't had to use a public bathroom after a night out in the city because you have no choice and have to commute home about an hour and not seen anything odd then you must live in the perfect place.

To others its not really anxiety - if it was I probably would not use the public bathroom at all - its just being cautions and being aware of your surroundings. Living in a city where people have randomly been hit up side the head with a brick for no reason, yeah you want to keep an eye open.

BTW - I have been mugged more than once - not in a bathroom - so yeah you want to be on your toes and avoid situation where you would be mugged.

I can see the back turned at a urinal in a unsafe area being an issue.
You must live in a bigger city then me - a night out to me is driving to a restaurant to meet friends. I would use the restroom in the venue before getting into my car. We don't have a subway or anything like that here. I drive pretty much everywhere. My bigger concern would be less the washroom at a busy venue and more walking back to my car if alone. I'm mostly in the suburbs.

I don’t think it’s a situation for most people on this issue that they are “scared to live everyday lives“ or are “getting freaked out about public bathrooms or what gender somebody is”. Most public restroom are not unisex. They are gendered. (Having unisex bathroom is a separate discussion that has pros and cons.) Statistically around half of people (male and female) would prefer to use a bathroom with only those of the same sex. It is a privacy issue. It is a comfort issue. And yes it can be a safety issue. I’m not saying that it is likely to be assaulted or be peeped on in a female bathroom. But if it were to happen (and it does happen) it will almost certainly be by a man. Not a trans woman. Not a bio woman. That‘s why it shouldn’t be shocking that a woman would give pause if she encounters a biological man in a bathroom. And why she wouldn’t pause if she saw a trans woman that is indistinguishable from a bio woman. It’s not about people being afraid for their lives, it’s about being cautious and mitigating their risk. Let’s be frank, even if you are the most progressive social justice warrior, if you saw a 6 ft tall 200 lb man walk into the female bathroom it would at least give you pause before you would let your 9 year old girl go in there by herself.

I guess if I had a daughter and that really odd unique situation happened I would think about it. I don't have daughters and have never seen that happen so really don't know what I would do. Plus like the point I keep making is we are usually in busy restaurants, sporting venues, theme parks. Not some dark deserted road stop on the highway. Location makes a huge difference.

 

[leahgoogle]

I was asking when there was no family bathroom available. What is a single dad supposed to do?

The father needs to double check that there is, in fact, no single bathrooms anywhere in the store. Even in the back, if needed. Most places will let a young child use the bathroom. If there is absolutely no place to for her to use the bathroom, he could go somewhere else or take her into the men's room.

 

[tony67]

.

I can see the back turned at a urinal in a unsafe area being an issue.
You must live in a bigger city then me - a night out to me is driving to a restaurant to meet friends. I would use the restroom in the venue before getting into my car. We don't have a subway or anything like that here. I drive pretty much everywhere. My bigger concern would be less

Yeah - very different world.

I was at a concert at a club two weekends ago - a couple of punk bands - mosh pit etc.. There were security guards basically in the restroom at the venue. Not really a hard drug crowd, not even a lot of drinking going on - not at those prices.

If security was very closely monitoring the restrooms then probably a reason for it - nothing to do with the thread just to say it.

Out in the suburbs, at a pub I'm still aware or surroundings - but a lot less concerned.

 

[Disneychick13]

Bio women don't assault women in public bathrooms? The one and only time I've been assaulted in a public bathroom was when I was 12. I was in a summer day camp program, and one of the older girls assaulted me and stole money from me in the bathroom. Both I and my parents reported it to staff, whose response was basically, "Stuff happens. You need to learn to defend yourself." And I've known a few female tweakers in my time who were way more violent and dangerous than any man I've ever encountered. But sure, only men commit assault.

If I saw a 6 ft tall 200 lb man enter a female bathroom, I'd take a look at the situation. If he's dressed in drag, I wouldn't give it a second thought. Much safer for that person to use the ladies' room than the men's. If he goes into the bathroom, does his business, and comes out, I could care less (maybe he's a transgender man who's following what so many people say they want and using the bathroom of his biologically assigned sex). If he starts skulking around being weird and creepy, I'm reporting him. But I'm also reporting the bio woman or trans woman who's skulking around the bathroom being weird and creepy. Behavior, not appearance.

Of course bio women (and trans woman for that matter) can assault or peep on women (or men) but those types of crimes are primarily committed by men(like upwards of 90%). And you know that of course as most people do.

First of all, men in drag are not transgender and I’ve never heard in any conversation people advocating for men who strictly dress as women but are not transgender to use women’s single sex facilities. Second of all, most 6 ft tall 200 lb men aren’t in danger anywhere.

you bring up a good point. this is a catch 22... screwed either way?

So if you are a trans male (born female, transitioned to male)... and for all intent and purpose appear typically normative male: beard, clothing etc... but according to the various anti trans bathroom laws being enacted / proposed (for example must use the bathroom of the gender on the birth cert)...

so if that person is supposed to use the bathroom according to their biological sex... and are supposed to go into the woman's' bathroom as in theory that is their birth gender... but then that is going to freak out folks like Disneychick13?


So what are they supposed to do? Just not use a bathroom at all?

What about a single dad with a little girl... no family bathroom... should he take the little girl into the mens or the woman's room? I mean it is fair game for mom and their sons?

Sigh.... Just let folks use a bathroom in peace

I don’t think anyone on this thread has advocated for trans men who clearly look like bio men or trans women who appear like bio women to not use the bathroom of their apparent sex. I have been very clear that I am talking about bio men that look like bio men (trans or not). I understand that there is a very very small percentage of the population that is transgender and cannot pass for the sex that they identify with. No matter what, you are correct they are screwed either way. They are probably uncomfortable, and they will probably get strange looks no matter what restroom they go in. I don’t know the solution besides using a companion or family restroom and then doing the best they can in other situations where none is available. You are correct that single dads w/girls / moms w/boys have it tough as well. I mean my DH didn’t especially like bringing my daughter in the men’s room when she was small but I know there were occasions when he had to. He wasn’t going to bring her in the ladies room (and I’ve actually never seen a father do that; I assume most men bring their daughter in the men’s room when they have no other choice).

I really don’t care for myself who uses what bathroom. But I certainly can acknowledge the reasons and rationale that others might have.

 

[tony67]

I was asking when there was no family bathroom available. What is a single dad supposed to do?

I've seen men bring their daughters into the men's room many times so I guess that is what they do if they have no other option.

I would not expect to see men brining their daughters into the ladies much in the same way I would not expect to see a woman bring their son into a men's room.

Since I don't have a daughter I cant really say for sure - but that is my experience anyway.