Is non-DVC use of points ever a good deal

[DVC Dude]

I have been a DVC member for many years and almost always use my DVC points for only DVC resort accommodations. One year I used some points for DCL and later discovered that it was not a great use of points.

If you value DVC points as worth a minimum of $10 per point, can anyone provide any examples of non DVC resort use where using DVC points (valued at $10pp) is cheaper than paying cash for the same use.

I think most examples of good deals is when you value DVC points as only the cost of your annual dues vs the more common rental rates of $10-13 per point.

 

[luckyman_apd]

I have been a DVC member for many years and almost always use my DVC points for only DVC resort accommodations. One year I used some points for DCL and later discovered that it was not a great use of points.

If you value DVC points as worth a minimum of $10 per point, can anyone provide any examples of non DVC resort use where using DVC points (valued at $10pp) is cheaper than paying cash for the same use.

I think most examples of good deals is when you value DVC points as only the cost of your annual dues vs the more common rental rates of $10-13 per point.

In terms of Dollars and cents? I don't think so. But everyones definition of good deal may be different. We have friends with more points than they need (in my opinion) and they have slowed down their vacationing a bit. They are not going to take e time to find renters, so they are probably going to use the points for a cruise. You and I know if they rented it out and paid cash it would benefit them financially, but for them, they would probably say having the options is worth it.

 

[Dean]

I have been a DVC member for many years and almost always use my DVC points for only DVC resort accommodations. One year I used some points for DCL and later discovered that it was not a great use of points.

If you value DVC points as worth a minimum of $10 per point, can anyone provide any examples of non DVC resort use where using DVC points (valued at $10pp) is cheaper than paying cash for the same use.

I think most examples of good deals is when you value DVC points as only the cost of your annual dues vs the more common rental rates of $10-13 per point.

As a rule no, it's best used when you have points you won't use otherwise. However, there are exceptions. There are a few RCI exchanges that are reasonable and obtainable if you're willing to play the game correctly (flexible, 2 yrs out and let it ride until 45 days prior). Occasionally you'll see a cash type exchange that you might have done anyway that will get to $10 a point or over, maybe a cruise or cabin that's not discounted on DCL or a special time with a CC option. I'd say if you own the points it's reasonable to keep your eyes out for these options but it's NEVER a good or reasonable choice to buy for these options. It is interesting when people try to compare a cruise at the highest price rather than a lower price they could easily have reserved if they'd wanted and then try to say that's the value they received.

 

[RobDoc]

I think we all need to understand why the point costs for these exchanges are what they are - DVC places a value on the points at the maintenance fee collected for them. Even there, some accommodation needs to be made due to the variance in maintenance fees from resort to resort (consider the difference in fees for BLT and VB).

A number of years ago we used some DVC points for a wonderful stay at the Grove Park Inn - a Concierge Collection resort located in Asheville, NC. These were points we weren't going to use and the stay nicely complimented our travel to another resort for a (non-DVC) RCI stay a couple of hours away. We felt a great value for our stay using points we had no other need for. Could we have rented them and used the cash to make the same reservation - possibly, but we were treated royally by Grove Park when they upgraded our room to a suite since we were DVC exchangers (this was in fall 2001). We could NOT have rented that suite from funds gained by renting our points.

YMMV.

 

[Dean]

I think we all need to understand why the point costs for these exchanges are what they are - DVC places a value on the points at the maintenance fee collected for them. Even there, some accommodation needs to be made due to the variance in maintenance fees from resort to resort (consider the difference in fees for BLT and VB).

I actually think they approach it differently. My understanding is they place a value that's based on what they actually get back in $$$ when they rent them out (minus all fees) divided by the total points in play. Remember not all points traded produce a return and CRO takes about half of the actual rental price. I think it works out around the same as the average maint fees. Previous info suggested DVD did not take additional income, or other money, out of this pot choosing rather to count it as a sales incentive but that could have changed.

 

[DVC Dude]

I would "guess" that Disney places a value of around $6-8 per point for trades into non-DVC accommodations. Of course, if you are trading BLT points vs VB points, you are getting a better deal as your cost per point in terms of annual dues is lower, but your buy-in price may be much higher.

Also, if you compare rack rate non-discounted prices for the trade, then it appears to be a good use of points.

What I am looking for is some concrete examples of DVC trades (give location and points) and compare that to a realistic cost to pay for the same thing without points. I am sure some people made good trades and some made less than good trades, assuming the trades are valued at $10pp. If you value the traded points at $4pp, then most trades will look like a good deal.

I think most people that trade their DVC points look at it as a use it or lose it opportunity instead of looking it as worth $10pp if they rented them.

 

[Dean]

I would "guess" that Disney places a value of around $6-8 per point for trades into non-DVC accommodations. Of course, if you are trading BLT points vs VB points, you are getting a better deal as your cost per point in terms of annual dues is lower, but your buy-in price may be much higher.

Also, if you compare rack rate non-discounted prices for the trade, then it appears to be a good use of points.

What I am looking for is some concrete examples of DVC trades (give location and points) and compare that to a realistic cost to pay for the same thing without points. I am sure some people made good trades and some made less than good trades, assuming the trades are valued at $10pp. If you value the traded points at $4pp, then most trades will look like a good deal.

I think most people that trade their DVC points look at it as a use it or lose it opportunity instead of looking it as worth $10pp if they rented them.

$4 is less than maint fees in almost all cases. I'm not sure what they current value is that DVC places on the points but 2-3 years ago it was around $5 a point. Doing some quick calculations using the cruise as the basis would suggest the current value DVD is placing on them is around $6-6.50 a point. Usually the amount returned if you have to invoke the trip insurance is a good representation.

 

[DVC Dude]

Grand Wailea for October 29 - oceanview = 92 DVC points = $920 using DVC

same hotel online hotel website = $489 + $25 resort fee + $69 tax = $583 = 58 DVC points

In addition, you can also get a AAA discount, but I did not click that box

Thus, this is one example of a BAD trade using DVC points

 

[DVC Dude]

Disney Grand Floridian for December 1 - lagoon view = 69 DVC points = $690 using DVC

Same hotel online Disney website = $669 = 67 DVC points

Disney Polynesian for December 1 - lagoon view = 60 DVC points = $600 using DVC

Same hotel online Disney website = $664 = 65 DVC points

Thus, this is one example of a PUSH trade using DVC points (assuming you think $600 per night is a good deal)

 

[disneynutz]

The way that I see it is Disney doesn't want anyone to use their points for anything other than DVC resort stays. I think that the evidence is pretty clear.

They charge a $95 fee to trade.

They only offer limited destinations,

They only offer around 10% of the RCI inventory.

They only offer limited inventory on DCL and if cash guests are plentiful, they will black out all DCL bookings for DVC.

Resales have now been restricted from trading to most destinations.

IMO the destinations are being use as bait for new direct buyers who may not read the fine print or truly understand what they are buying.

Bill

 

[dvcterry]

I think we all need to understand why the point costs for these exchanges are what they are - DVC places a value on the points at the maintenance fee collected for them. Even there, some accommodation needs to be made due to the variance in maintenance fees from resort to resort (consider the difference in fees for BLT and VB).

A number of years ago we used some DVC points for a wonderful stay at the Grove Park Inn - a Concierge Collection resort located in Asheville, NC. These were points we weren't going to use and the stay nicely complimented our travel to another resort for a (non-DVC) RCI stay a couple of hours away. We felt a great value for our stay using points we had no other need for. Could we have rented them and used the cash to make the same reservation - possibly, but we were treated royally by Grove Park when they upgraded our room to a suite since we were DVC exchangers (this was in fall 2001). We could NOT have rented that suite from funds gained by renting our points.

YMMV.

Very good point and a very nice collection. We stayed it was a wonderful stay, as well as Wailea, and the big island, Santa Monica, Vermont, disney cruise and the room quoted was not $400 for deluxe ocean view at Wailea during our stay in February, it was over $700, per room, we had three. Two were connecting so there was an additional cost of $50. At checkout I was prepared to pay this fee but was informed as part of the concierge agreement of Disney all fees would be taken care of.

The value I put on my points is not dollars and cents but to use my points with my family and spend time with my family. We never became members with the intention of this becoming an investment, only as an opportunity for our family to spend years vacationing together.

 

[DebbieB]

$4 is less than maint fees in almost all cases. I'm not sure what they current value is that DVC places on the points but 2-3 years ago it was around $5 a point. Doing some quick calculations using the cruise as the basis would suggest the current value DVD is placing on them is around $6-6.50 a point. Usually the amount returned if you have to invoke the trip insurance is a good representation.

When they switched to a flat fee for trip insurance, the amount returned is now your dues amount on the points.

 

[DVC Dude]

The value I put on my points is not dollars and cents but to use my points with my family and spend time with my family. We never became members with the intention of this becoming an investment, only as an opportunity for our family to spend years vacationing together.

While I agree with you, I created this thread NOT to discuss if DVC is an investment or not, just to discuss if using DVC points for non-DVC resorts is a good deal or not.

I can find some Good or even Acceptable trade examples, but I have not seen any Excellent trades and there are quite a few Bad examples of trades.

 

[Dean]

Grand Wailea for October 29 - oceanview = 92 DVC points = $920 using DVC

same hotel online hotel website = $489 + $25 resort fee + $69 tax = $583 = 58 DVC points

In addition, you can also get a AAA discount, but I did not click that box

Thus, this is one example of a BAD trade using DVC points

I think there are still some members of their club that can get those rooms for $79 to 129 a point.

Disney Grand Floridian for December 1 - lagoon view = 69 DVC points = $690 using DVC

Same hotel online Disney website = $669 = 67 DVC points

Disney Polynesian for December 1 - lagoon view = 60 DVC points = $600 using DVC

Same hotel online Disney website = $664 = 65 DVC points

Thus, this is one example of a PUSH trade using DVC points (assuming you think $600 per night is a good deal)

You've got to adjust for the 25% routine discount (likely more for some groups) but also consider tax. The other question is whether you'd have paid those prices without DVC, if the answer is no, it's not really a savings or value.

While I agree with you, I created this thread NOT to discuss if DVC is an investment or not, just to discuss if using DVC points for non-DVC resorts is a good deal or not.

I can find some Good or even Acceptable trade examples, but I have not seen any Excellent trades and there are quite a few Bad examples of trades.

It's like the Dining Plan options, about the best you can do is break even or slightly better for some options and if the starts align but the risk and downside is quite substantial.

 

[tfc3rid]

Tokyo Disney Resort is IS a good deal... I just booked a week at TDR through DVC and it was about 390 points... Resort prices over there for the week in question averaged US $700 per night...

In addition, there is no $95 fee to book at TDR.

And, well, it is Tokyo Disney... Well worth it! Can't wait till April!

 

[DVC Dude]

Tokyo Disney Resort is IS a good deal... I just booked a week at TDR through DVC and it was about 390 points... Resort prices over there for the week in question averaged US $700 per night...

In addition, there is no $95 fee to book at TDR.

And, well, it is Tokyo Disney... Well worth it! Can't wait till April!

Bravo, that is around $558 per night and a good deal.

I had no idea it was so expensive there.

 

[MulanMom]

As a rule no, it's best used when you have points you won't use otherwise. However, there are exceptions. There are a few RCI exchanges that are reasonable and obtainable if you're willing to play the game correctly (flexible, 2 yrs out and let it ride until 45 days prior). Occasionally you'll see a cash type exchange that you might have done anyway that will get to $10 a point or over, maybe a cruise or cabin that's not discounted on DCL or a special time with a CC option. I'd say if you own the points it's reasonable to keep your eyes out for these options but it's NEVER a good or reasonable choice to buy for these options. It is interesting when people try to compare a cruise at the highest price rather than a lower price they could easily have reserved if they'd wanted and then try to say that's the value they received.

PMFJI....you mention about being willing to play the game correctly. Can you point me to where I can learn more about strategy? Not quite sure what you mean by 2 years out and letting it ride until 45 days prior. prior to what? Curious because we did put points that would have expired a few years ago into an RCI exchange. That's about to expire and I'm not real happy with what's available to trade into.

My contribution to the thread....I think the highest value of DVC points is their use for DVC stays. We used to go to WDW often and would stretch those points as much as we could. Now, kids are older, cannot vacation there as much as I'd like....and where we used to always be borrowing, we now bank to the point where we need to use a massive amount of points. I don't think I'll ever do the RCI trade again, unless I want something specific and it's the only way to get it. OTOH, there are ways to rent timeshare weeks directly from people that can achieve the same end. What has worked for us....most recently...is that our huge amount of points has garnered us a stay for a last minute (relatively last minute) xmas holiday WDW trip where all the DVC resorts are booked. I was asking member services about wait-listing and she mentioned the Poly, for the entire week, was available through the Disney Collection. Sure, it cost a lot in points, but it helped us achieve something we wanted to do. With no discounts on holiday rates, and figuring $10 a point, we made out slightly better than if we paid cash for the room. We would never in our right minds pay that kind of money if planning a vacation on our own, but sometimes building up those points does allow us some very nice splurges.

 

[Dean]

PMFJI....you mention about being willing to play the game correctly. Can you point me to where I can learn more about strategy? Not quite sure what you mean by 2 years out and letting it ride until 45 days prior. prior to what? Curious because we did put points that would have expired a few years ago into an RCI exchange. That's about to expire and I'm not real happy with what's available to trade into.

In a nutshell. You've got to investigate the options including quality and potential cash prices of any options. You have to be flexible,most DVC members aren't even when they say they are. Once you've decided on a resort or resorts you put in an ongoing search that is preferably 2 years out but at least a full year out and you need to be prepared to wait until 45 days out before giving up.

 

[MulanMom]

Thanks for the info, Dean. Didn't realize a floating request could be submitted. Oh well, it's doubtful I'll use the RCI option again, but if I do, I'll study up on it! ;-)

 

[Dean]

Thanks for the info, Dean. Didn't realize a floating request could be submitted. Oh well, it's doubtful I'll use the RCI option again, but if I do, I'll study up on it! ;-)

MOST good options that do come through RCI are filled to pending requests. Calling and checking availability means you're already behind significantly, esp since DVC members don't have online access and RCI opens earlier than does DVC in most cases.