Is Disney trying to make life fair for everyone?

[Micker]

I came out to this forum to look for news for an upcoming trip to Disney when I ran across articles on changes for the disabled. I became concerned for my trip with my disabled son based on what was being explained and thought that maybe I needed to change plans. I received some very helpful information from others that was encouraging me to keep my plans or at least to test the waters and I felt good about it. Then I was hit with the deluge of hate messages.....messages telling me that I expected too much or that I was expecting something bad so that is probably what would happen - WOW!!!

I was told that the change in policy by Disney was to make it "fair" for everyone. Is that true??

What is fair about one person born able to take advantage of all life has to offer and another who struggles with simple everyday tasks? Life isn't fair and nothing Disney does can make it so - does everyone get that? Frankly, I don't know what Disney is trying to accomplish if I think about it from that perspective and if that is what Disney is trying to accomplish then I don't want any part of it. What problem were they trying to solve? Life isn't fair enough for those who are born capable????

The issue is whether you have any compassion for others - do you have a heart? Is making way for the small percentage of disabled people such a big burden for you? You think that teaching your children to show compassion for others is a bad thing? Wow!! I was encouraged to consider trying some different ways to plan by the early posters but now I feel like Disney is filled with haters and I don't think I want to go!! Haters got to hate - I get it and I don't want to be part of it. I'll go to Universal where they are offering hope- Done.

 

[lanejudy]

I don't know that it's possible to make life "fair" for "everyone." Everyone -- adult, child, diabled, non-disabled, neurotypical, cognitively-challenged, whatever -- has different experiences, different desires, wishes, expectations. "Fair" simply isn't possible.

Disney it trying to make things "equal" -- which is what ADA requires as accommodation. Not "fair." Equal means just that, everybody waits the same/equal time to ride. Disney gets too many guests each and every day to do "special" treatment as far as rides. CM's still have ability to create "magic" for individual guests. They certainly have heart, as do the vast majority of guests. I guess it comes down to expectations; I never expect more than the next guy. If pixie-dust happens, that's what makes it special, expecting pixie-dust removes that special feeling.

That's my interpretation of current events. YMMV.

Enjoy your vacation!

 

[Aladora]

Serious question...are you actually looking for responses or is the purpose of this thread to vent?

No sarcasm or hidden meaning to my question, I find that sometimes what someone really needs is to vent and get all their frustrations out and sometimes they are actually looking for insight.

My instinct with this thread (because you ended the original post by stating that you are just going to go to Universal) is that you might just be looking to vent and if that is the case then I'll just say that I understand your frustration even though I might not agree with your stance.

 

[gismo1554]

Not trying to start an argument but Disney I believe are trying to stop people abusing the current system. I have seen people who are no disabled using the old system to their advantage and I'm no saying we should all be tarred with that brush but I kind of see where they are coming from. I agree though that adding additional loops for disabled is not the answer. I don't know what is though.

 

[Kristibo42]

This is why we go at the slow times. Low crowds.

 

[Gracie09]

Disney is a corporation abiding by the appropriate state and federal regulations concerning accommodations for the disabled. They have to make the parks etc reasonably accessible. That is all. If you want more than that it is up to you and your pocket book to provide it. Want fol access book a VIP tour. Want fp+ book a hotel that is offering it. Etc etc.

 

[Aladora]

Disney it trying to make things "equal" -- which is what ADA requires as accommodation. Not "fair." Equal means just that, everybody waits the same/equal time to ride.

Every time I see people here talking about how equal access isn't "fair", I always think of this:

I was told that the change in policy by Disney was to make it "fair" for everyone. Is that true??

No, what you have stated is not true. Disney changed the policy because the one that was in place before gave superior access to those who had a disability. Not equal access, better access and to be frank, that was not "fair".

I posted this on another thread but I think it bears reposting:

The thing is that, according to Disney, the change was not made because of liars and fraudulent cheaters, it was because too many people qualified for an old GAC.

There is a great article on this:

People continue to react to the Walt Disney Company's decision to change the way it accommodates visitors with disabilities in its theme parks. Beth Kassab of the Orlando Sentinel quoted me in her most recent column, which suggested that increasing wait times at Disney World attractions prompted some visitors to find ways around the wait, with GAC use and abuse becoming one popular way to do that.

Much of the coverage over Disney's decision to replace the Guest Assistance Card [GAC] with a new Disabled Assistance System has focused on reported abuse of the system by people pretending to have a disability to get preferred access to attractions. But conversations with Disney cast members have convinced me that is not the reason Disney made this change.

This isn't going to be easy for some Disney visitors to hear. But let's consider this a little tough love. The reason why Disney is ending the GAC program isn't because it was abused too much by people without disabilities. Disney killed the GAC because it was used too much by people with disabilities.

As we've written before, Disney did not intend to create a system that gave visitors with disabilities no-wait, front-of-the-line access to its attractions. That's simply the way the system evolved, for maximum operational efficiency. It simply was easier for Disney attractions personnel to move parties with a disabled visitor immediately onto a ride via the exit, than to make them wait and block the exit area, or to come back later.

Getting to ride without waiting invited abuse, which is why Disney adopted the GAC program, to make visitors with disabilities get a card from Disney so that individual attraction cast members wouldn't have to bear the responsibility of deciding who deserved special access. That helped put a stop to groups of kids renting a wheelchair to skip lines, but the system eventually grew unsustainable.

As crowds grew at Disney theme parks, people who previously could have endured a five- to 20-minute wait for rides and shows found that they couldn't handle waits of 40-80 minutes or more. Without the GAC, many people with back problems, weight issues, heart conditions, autism, or any of many other issues that make waiting in line difficult or impossible simply might have decided not to visit a Disney theme park. But with the GAC, not only could they visit, but Disney became a preferred entertainment destination. As more and more people used GAC to access rides, standby lines grew even longer, prompting even more people to get a GAC.

These aren't "fakers." They are people with legitimate medical claims. The number of people with medical conditions that could impede their ability to visit a crowded theme park is, unfortunately, astronomical. We're talking about tens of millions of Americans. More than one third of Americans are obese, according to the federal government. A third of adults have high blood pressure. One in six American children have a development disability. Autism prevalence is now at one in 50 kids. (That's nearly 1.5 million children, doing the math on U.S. Census Bureau data.) And let's not forget that Disney attracts millions of visitors from outside the United States, too, adding to the pool of potential visitors with disabilities.

Neither Disney nor any other theme park company can sustain a system that gives all of these people front-of-the-line access. But, fortunately for Disney (though not for the families affected by this change), the law doesn't require that Disney does that. The Americans with Disabilities Act simply requires that institutions create facilities and procedures accessible to persons with disabilities. It does not provide for nor demand preferred access. So that's why we soon will have a new system for disable access at Disney parks, a ride reservation system that will allow people with disabilities to skip non-accessible queues in the parks, but not to skip the waits.

Of course, many people are upset that they're losing what was a wonderful accommodation. For many families dealing with a disability, having front of the line access at Disney provided a welcome relief in an otherwise trying and frustrating experience. Frankly, it stinks to lose that. But Disney can't give preferred access to everyone. At some point, if everyone is "preferred," no one is. And millions of Disney visitors effectively lose their access to the parks again.

Don't think for a moment, though, that the system Disney introduces in 10 days will be its final word on access. For some families, even the new reservation system won't be enough to provide access to the park and its attractions. Don't be surprised it Disney tweaks the system in the months and years ahead to better balance the needs of all its visitors, including those with autism and other conditions for which a reservation system is — and here's an understatement — less than optimal.

But let's also not believe that this change is coming because a small group of greedy people decided to cheat the system. The "disabled" aren't a small subset of Americans. They're more than a hundred million of us. Use, not abuse, made Disney's GAC system unsustainable.

From: ThemeParkInsider

The entire article is fantastic in the way that it explains the reasons for the changes and also why Disney is constantly tweaking the new DAS.

It sucks that some of our kids can't experience life the way that others can. It sucks that some of our kids can't enjoy Disney(world or land) the way that others can.
As parents, it hurts when we see our kids not able to enjoy something that they previously could.

I get it, I really do. Disney is doing everything they can to make it so that EVERYONE enjoys the park equally but unfortunately, equal does not always mean fair.

 

[Vidia2]

I came out to this forum to look for news for an upcoming trip to Disney when I ran across articles on changes for the disabled. I became concerned for my trip with my disabled son based on what was being explained and thought that maybe I needed to change plans. I received some very helpful information from others that was encouraging me to keep my plans or at least to test the waters and I felt good about it. Then I was hit with the deluge of hate messages.....messages telling me that I expected too much or that I was expecting something bad so that is probably what would happen - WOW!!!

I was told that the change in policy by Disney was to make it "fair" for everyone. Is that true??

What is fair about one person born able to take advantage of all life has to offer and another who struggles with simple everyday tasks? Life isn't fair and nothing Disney does can make it so - does everyone get that? Frankly, I don't know what Disney is trying to accomplish if I think about it from that perspective and if that is what Disney is trying to accomplish then I don't want any part of it. What problem were they trying to solve? Life isn't fair enough for those who are born capable????

The issue is whether you have any compassion for others - do you have a heart? Is making way for the small percentage of disabled people such a big burden for you? You think that teaching your children to show compassion for others is a bad thing? Wow!! I was encouraged to consider trying some different ways to plan by the early posters but now I feel like Disney is filled with haters and I don't think I want to go!! Haters got to hate - I get it and I don't want to be part of it. I'll go to Universal where they are offering hope- Done.

I really hope you are able to have a nice vacation wherever you decide to go. There are a handful of posters who are posting the same exact things on every thread that is started regarding disabilities, especially when autism is brought up. My suggestion is to add anyone who is upsetting you to your ignore list.

 

[Sparkly]

I came out to this forum to look for news for an upcoming trip to Disney when I ran across articles on changes for the disabled. I became concerned for my trip with my disabled son based on what was being explained and thought that maybe I needed to change plans. I received some very helpful information from others that was encouraging me to keep my plans or at least to test the waters and I felt good about it. Then I was hit with the deluge of hate messages.....messages telling me that I expected too much or that I was expecting something bad so that is probably what would happen - WOW!!!

I was told that the change in policy by Disney was to make it "fair" for everyone. Is that true??

What is fair about one person born able to take advantage of all life has to offer and another who struggles with simple everyday tasks? Life isn't fair and nothing Disney does can make it so - does everyone get that? Frankly, I don't know what Disney is trying to accomplish if I think about it from that perspective and if that is what Disney is trying to accomplish then I don't want any part of it. What problem were they trying to solve? Life isn't fair enough for those who are born capable????

The issue is whether you have any compassion for others - do you have a heart? Is making way for the small percentage of disabled people such a big burden for you? You think that teaching your children to show compassion for others is a bad thing? Wow!! I was encouraged to consider trying some different ways to plan by the early posters but now I feel like Disney is filled with haters and I don't think I want to go!! Haters got to hate - I get it and I don't want to be part of it. I'll go to Universal where they are offering hope- Done.

Life's not fair. I have Aspergers, and no, I don't feel like I need or deserve to jump to the front of the line. Everyone's got a sob story, a tale of hardship.

And threatening to go to Universal? Really? They have pretty much the exact same system with return times. So not FOTL passes there either.

 

[StacyMarie]

I have a feeling Disney is not going to back down on this. I just read a post on FB from a lady who called Disney to voice her concerns and that the new system would not work for her family and that she was going to look into trying to get the balance of her AP passes refunded. Well, she received a follow up email from the CM she spoke with yesterday stating that she would see the balance of their AP passes refunded to them in 10 business days to their credit card and that their AP passes were no longer active.

Disney is providing all of its guests exactly what it is required to by law - equal access. If the new system won't work for you, don't go to Disney. Personally, if you aren't going to try it before complaining about it, you don't have a leg to stand on in the sympathy department!

 

[2tinkerbell]

I don't think that asking is it "fair" is the best question in this situation. Life isn't "fair." Is it "fair" that I had to spend over $300,000.00 to educate my DD when others were provided FAPE? (BTW - something that I do not resent at all!) Is it "fair" that you have been to WDW with your DS, while others have not been at all?

What Disney is trying to do is to make their attractions and parks "equally" accessible to everyone, according to the law. Disney doesn't owe anyone anything more than that. .

You and only you can decide if touring WDW utilizing FP+, FP and DAS will provide your DS with an enjoyable and successful experience. I hope that if you decide that Disney just isn't right for your DS that you will find experiences that will privide him with enjoyment and success.

 

[cmwade77]

I came out to this forum to look for news for an upcoming trip to Disney when I ran across articles on changes for the disabled. I became concerned for my trip with my disabled son based on what was being explained and thought that maybe I needed to change plans. I received some very helpful information from others that was encouraging me to keep my plans or at least to test the waters and I felt good about it. Then I was hit with the deluge of hate messages.....messages telling me that I expected too much or that I was expecting something bad so that is probably what would happen - WOW!!!

I was told that the change in policy by Disney was to make it "fair" for everyone. Is that true??

What is fair about one person born able to take advantage of all life has to offer and another who struggles with simple everyday tasks? Life isn't fair and nothing Disney does can make it so - does everyone get that? Frankly, I don't know what Disney is trying to accomplish if I think about it from that perspective and if that is what Disney is trying to accomplish then I don't want any part of it. What problem were they trying to solve? Life isn't fair enough for those who are born capable????

The issue is whether you have any compassion for others - do you have a heart? Is making way for the small percentage of disabled people such a big burden for you? You think that teaching your children to show compassion for others is a bad thing? Wow!! I was encouraged to consider trying some different ways to plan by the early posters but now I feel like Disney is filled with haters and I don't think I want to go!! Haters got to hate - I get it and I don't want to be part of it. I'll go to Universal where they are offering hope- Done.

No, they aren't trying to make it fair for everyone, they are trying to make the park experience as equal for everyone as possible.

That is what the changes boil down to. Some say that the previous system provided superior access and in some limited cases, it did. But in all reality the previous system was riddled with problems for those that truly need the assistance and the abusers just made those problems even worse.

So, with the new system, things should be equaled out a bit more and make things work better for everyone. But it will require additional planning on our part.

 

[buffettgirl]

I came out to this forum to look for news for an upcoming trip to Disney when I ran across articles on changes for the disabled. I became concerned for my trip with my disabled son based on what was being explained and thought that maybe I needed to change plans. I received some very helpful information from others that was encouraging me to keep my plans or at least to test the waters and I felt good about it. Then I was hit with the deluge of hate messages.....messages telling me that I expected too much or that I was expecting something bad so that is probably what would happen - WOW!!!

I was told that the change in policy by Disney was to make it "fair" for everyone. Is that true??

What is fair about one person born able to take advantage of all life has to offer and another who struggles with simple everyday tasks? Life isn't fair and nothing Disney does can make it so - does everyone get that? Frankly, I don't know what Disney is trying to accomplish if I think about it from that perspective and if that is what Disney is trying to accomplish then I don't want any part of it. What problem were they trying to solve? Life isn't fair enough for those who are born capable????

The issue is whether you have any compassion for others - do you have a heart? Is making way for the small percentage of disabled people such a big burden for you? You think that teaching your children to show compassion for others is a bad thing? Wow!! I was encouraged to consider trying some different ways to plan by the early posters but now I feel like Disney is filled with haters and I don't think I want to go!! Haters got to hate - I get it and I don't want to be part of it. I'll go to Universal where they are offering hope- Done.

I'm not sure who the "you" is, or who you are addressing these statements to, but I hope you realize that just about everyone who posts on this disabilities board is, or has someone in their life, who has medical or cognitive issues, of some sort.

I read the last thread. I don't see anyone attacking you, or being hateful, or not showing compassion. I see a lot of people, with a lot of experiences in life, trying their best to help you understand how the new system can work for you. To attack this whole forum as a bunch of haters, or suggest that Disney is filled with a bunch of haters? Well, that's just odd.

I hope you find a magical vacation that works for you. Wherever that happens to be.

 

[livndisney]

I came out to this forum to look for news for an upcoming trip to Disney when I ran across articles on changes for the disabled. I became concerned for my trip with my disabled son based on what was being explained and thought that maybe I needed to change plans. I received some very helpful information from others that was encouraging me to keep my plans or at least to test the waters and I felt good about it. Then I was hit with the deluge of hate messages.....messages telling me that I expected too much or that I was expecting something bad so that is probably what would happen - WOW!!!

I was told that the change in policy by Disney was to make it "fair" for everyone. Is that true??

What is fair about one person born able to take advantage of all life has to offer and another who struggles with simple everyday tasks? Life isn't fair and nothing Disney does can make it so - does everyone get that? Frankly, I don't know what Disney is trying to accomplish if I think about it from that perspective and if that is what Disney is trying to accomplish then I don't want any part of it. What problem were they trying to solve? Life isn't fair enough for those who are born capable????

The issue is whether you have any compassion for others - do you have a heart? Is making way for the small percentage of disabled people such a big burden for you? You think that teaching your children to show compassion for others is a bad thing? Wow!! I was encouraged to consider trying some different ways to plan by the early posters but now I feel like Disney is filled with haters and I don't think I want to go!! Haters got to hate - I get it and I don't want to be part of it. I'll go to Universal where they are offering hope- Done.

FYI Opening new threads to continue the "fight" is really frowned on.

 

[StacyMarie]

FYI Opening new threads to continue the "fight" is really frowned on.

 

[KPeveler]

I know people are upset, but much of what was posted above it true - giving expedited access to people with disabilities (children or adults) is unfair. (and leads to abuse, but that is not my point). I already shut down one thread today where people started trying to be "more disabled" or "worse" than the last poster, thereby justifying why their family should get to skip lines or have expedited access.

Not only is Disney doing what is required by law, they are still going above and beyond the law in many ways. That is one thing to remember.

Another is this - Disney is not a charity, religious, or non-profit organization. They are a business. Their business is to make money. Yes, a certain quality of service is expected when you go there, a quality above that of other theme parks, but it is still a business. Yes, living with a disability is harder than not - I spent most of my life "able bodied" (though my condition is genetic, I was relatively unaffected), and then I got disorder got worse very quickly. So I can say from experience - it is harder being disabled. It is harder being the caregiver to a person who is sick or disabled.

But, it is not up to Disney to "make up" for the rest of our lives being harder.

The only reason many people expect the expedited lines is that they experienced them before. But I would not go into a different place, one which did not have such a previous system, and demand the same treatment.

Here is my example, based on my particular disabilities. Obviously this situation would not apply to everyone. I enjoy eating out. I have problems being in very tight crowds, use a manual wheelchair, and have a whole list of invisible issues (everything from anxiety to fainting). I would not show up to a restaurant that I liked, and upon finding out there was a 45 minute wait, demand to be seated immediately due to my disability. Everyone has to wait their turn. What is reasonable is that, if they can do so, I wait in a safer place (perhaps outside their doors where is it less crowded, or a corner with AC if it is too hot).

Many of us became accustomed to the old system, and we expect that we are entitled to exactly what the old system provided. In fact, we are not. We are entitled to equal access. Going in without waiting is "special" access - something not everyone in the park gets.

Edit: I did not realize that this was opened as soon as I closed the old one. Yes, it is a DISboards policy that once a thread has been closed, it is not allowed to start a new one to continue the argument.