I hope this does not offend new users/just learning DSLR, but....

[Muushka]

Like I said, please don't take offence to this post. I had to ask questions and continue to ask them, but I must say:

I attended a 4th level class (meaning that there were 3 prior classes that built up to this one) for the Wolf/Ritz Camera (University-so to speak ).
This class was specifically for Nikon DSLR users (D50 and D70). I was stunned at the questions that people were asking-basic questions about aperture and shutter speed. How can someone spend upwards of $1200 that is basically (for them) a really expensive point and shoot?

On my (and husbands) end it was frustrating to have valuable class time being taken up on questions that really should not have been asked.

Please don't flame me, I really wanted so much more out of that class and the teacher was so knowledgeable, I was just disappointed.

 

[ndelaware]

Not to flame you, but the D50 is an entry level camera, as was the D70 for Nikon when that was their low price point. These cameras are the jumping off point for millions of people getting out of P&S cameras. So it doesn't suprise me one bit that many of the questions were about the basics. And isn't this class free to puchasers of Wolf/Ritz products? I thought they pushed this as part of their sales package, as in "don't worry if you don't know how to use a DSLR, we'll give you free lessons if you buy it here". I personally think that your experience is probably the norm for the Wolf/Ritz classes.

 

[Muushka]

Yup, they were free. I guess the first 3 classes that built up to this one didn't do the trick. We did not attend them, so I cannot comment.

Like I said, it was disappointing not to learn very much because of all the basic questions.

 

[ndelaware]

Maybe you could get hold of the instructor away from the crowd.

 

[WillCAD]

I think it was dumb for folks to take the 4th level class if they didn't understand the materials presented in the lower level classes. As you said, it took up valuable class time with questions on the basics, basics which should have been covered in the lower level classes.

On the subject of spending so much for what is essentially a point and shoot, there are several possible motivations for that.

My first SLR was a Canon Rebel G 35mm. I bought it in a kit for about $350, which at the time (1999) was an awful lot of money. I knew when I bought it that I didn't have the knowledge to properly use it, but I also knew that I would learn as I went. Eventually, I learned enough about how an SLR works, and about the basics of photography, to be able to get pretty good pics from it.

On the flip side, however, I have known people who immediately buy the biggest, best, most expensive camera/computer/whatever, figuring that all they need to do in order to solve a problem is to throw money at it. These people often get mad later when they find out that the $5000 computer or $10000 camera outfit they bought actually requires a little bit of skill to operate. "For that kind of money," some people think, "the darn thing should read my mind and do exactly what I want it to do without me learning anything!"

Then there are those folks who have been shooting with cheap point-n-shoot cameras, many of whom think, "I already KNOW how to take good pictures! But my camera is junk, which is why my pictures don't turn out..." These folks invest in an expensive camera outfit and still don't get good pictures. "Well," they think, "I guess I just need to learn how to work the controls on this camera, then I'll get good pics!" Since they already think they KNOW everything about photogtaphy, they skip the first three classes and go straight to the 4th - and get a rude awakening when they discover that photography is about much more than just pointing the camera at something and clicking one button.

 

[MICKEY88]

sounds like you got out of the class, exactly what you paid for it, having worked for Ritz, I can tell you that is the norm. you will have people of all levels of knowledge at the classes.


there are many reasons people buy camera over their head, some people rather than starting low and working their way up, will look at a camera as a long term investment, they will buy the top of the line, and learn as they go, some people will buy a camera just because Uncle Bob has one, so it must be good.


and then there is my least favorite reason, when I worked for Ritz, one of our sales associates, didn't care about his customers he only cared about his paycheck, he was really good at selling people over their heads,

more often than not customers would come back to the store either to return the camera, or looking for help since they had no clue what they were doing...

my advice is to always shop more than one store, and be wary of any sales person that pushes one camera too hard...odds are that camera has special incentives for the sales person..

 

[Muushka]

Maybe you could get hold of the instructor away from the crowd.

Yup, I may track him down!

Yes, I paid nothing for the class, but just 1/2 hour there, 1/2 hour home and 1:50 minutes (out of 2 hours) wasted. Got home at 10:25 last night. Oye

You gave good advice at the end. Looks like a lot of people spent a lot of $$ on an 'entry level' camera. I saved my pennies and waited 5 years for that camera! And did tons of research. Oye.

Nikon is holding a class also. Has anyone attended one of those? No, it is not free, but I would hate to waste my time AND money on another refresher course. Oye!

 

[cpbjgc]

... I guess the first 3 classes that built up to this one didn't do the trick. We did not attend them, so I cannot comment.

Like I said, it was disappointing not to learn very much because of all the basic questions.

Looks like you wern't the only ones to not attend the first three.

Good luck in tracking down the instructor!

 

[RadioNate]

I can sorta jump in. I use an S2IS but lust after a DSLR. I however have no clue how to use one. I know nothing about aperture, shutter, exposure aside from their basic definations.

Part of me feels some pressure from boards like this, DSLRs are always recommended. Not just here but on a lot of sites where I did my research. I also went to the local Ritz/Wolf and was almost exclusively shown DSLRs (the exception was the Sony H1 and a Fuji camera that they all raved about). I sometimes get the impression that you can't have good photos w/out a DSLR.

I was able to put that aside and the best camera for me, unfortunately some people don't really know what they need so they just buy what they think is the best overall. For me that was the S2IS which lets me have some control while I learn what actually have control involves.

There is also a coolness factor with a DSLR.

I also think WillCad is onto something with this.

On the flip side, however, I have known people who immediately buy the biggest, best, most expensive camera/computer/whatever, figuring that all they need to do in order to solve a problem is to throw money at it. These people often get mad later when they find out that the $5000 computer or $10000 camera outfit they bought actually requires a little bit of skill to operate. "For that kind of money," some people think, "the darn thing should read my mind and do exactly what I want it to do without me learning anything!"

 

[manning]

sounds like you got out of the class, exactly what you paid for it, having worked for Ritz, I can tell you that is the norm. you will have people of all levels of knowledge at the classes.


there are many reasons people buy camera over their head, some people rather than starting low and working their way up, will look at a camera as a long term investment, they will buy the top of the line, and learn as they go, some people will buy a camera just because Uncle Bob has one, so it must be good.


and then there is my least favorite reason, when I worked for Ritz, one of our sales associates, didn't care about his customers he only cared about his paycheck, he was really good at selling people over their heads,

more often than not customers would come back to the store either to return the camera, or looking for help since they had no clue what they were doing...

my advice is to always shop more than one store, and be wary of any sales person that pushes one camera too hard...odds are that camera has special incentives for the sales person..

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kelly Grannell]

my friend owns the very same camera my daughter uses. The results are almost always night and day. It's only about the camera to a certain degree, but mostly it's about the photographer.

Who would've thought that this picture is taken using a $150 camera:

 

[manning]

I have used SLRs for over 30 years. I have gone the other way and use P&S now for several reasons. I get the pictures I want and I have just got tired of hauling all the stuff around. Canon, Panasonic, Sony and a few others have made great strides in the long range zoom P&S. Unless I go back to making money taking pictures I won't get a DSLR. Those 10 - 16X zooms are great. I can remember a time when a zoom lense was considered garbage. What they can do today using computers for lens design.

 

[Kelly Grannell]

I somewhat agree with Manning. However, until they can make a point and shoot with the following criteria, I can't 'settle' for a point and shoot

1. Image Stabilization (done)
2. Low noise at high ISO (not yet available)
3. Instantaneous startup time (almost there)
4. Virtually zero shutter lag (almost there)
5. No internally-over-sharpened picture (not yet available)

 

[Anewman]

I have a friend that has been shooting with me since the mid 80's.
He has been on greenbox mode ever since.

Nothing wrong with that, IMO.
He does get alot more misses than I would be comfortable with, but he is happy. I on the other hand, I am not always happy. Sometimes we compare our prints, most would say mine are "better" but he always has a smile on his face while I am looking at the defects in my images and kicking myself.

Sometimes I wish we could trade places.

 

[Kelly Grannell]

Anewman is right. There is nothing wrong using the green zone mode.

When I'm too lazy, I also use my dSLR as a point and shoot. Just put it in P mode (I still want to control the ISO setting and only use center AF) and snap away.

 

[handicap18]

Don't confuse the D50 or the Canon Rebel as entry level camera's. They maybe entry level for dSLR's, but are far from something that would be considered entry level. I think that is part of people's problems with camera's. Someone said it in a previous post, camera shops probably oversell more than they need to. If you go into a camera store and say you like taking pictures, but want a better camera than the one you bought 5 years ago and might be willing to spend a few extra dollars for a little more quality, but don't take a lot of pictures, the camera store shouldn't be selling you on a $600-900 dSLR. If you go into a camera store to buy a camera and don't know anything about SLR camera's except that they can change lenses, then you probably shouldn't be walking out with one.

When I bought my first SLR some 15+ years ago I went shopping for a SLR because I had previous experience with using them in high school and knew what I wanted.

Just my take.

 

[luvmyeor]

Our Ritz Camera does not offer the DSLR class yet. I upgraded to a D50 from a coolpix 3100. I would probably be one of those people asking the basic questions because I don't know much about DSLR. For those of us that only used P&S it was never a necessity to know much except which mode to set the dial to in order to take a decent picture. I attended one of the basic digital classes and I really didn't learn anything there. When they said basic they really meant it...most of the people in that class had no clue how to operate a P&S. I was told that the class that would help me would be the DSLR class once they offered it...it is my understanding that they expect to answer the very basic questions about DSLR. So maybe Ritz needs to offer an advanced DSLR class for those that have a basic understanding of SLR.

 

[Kelly Grannell]

The thing is that so many point and shoot have features that are also offered on dSLR (even a cheapie such as my Canon A95 has aperture priority, shutter priority, full manual controls, ISO selection). So those basic courses should not be focused on dSLR users alone but to anyone who wants to use advanced features of their cameras.

 

[MICKEY88]

If you go into a camera store to buy a camera and don't know anything about SLR camera's except that they can change lenses, then you probably shouldn't be walking out with one.



Just my take.

I agree to a point, but a lot of photography courses insist that you use an slr that has full manual capability, some old time teachers insist either because they can't accept change, or don't realize that some modern point and shoots do have full manual capability


my first camera was an SLR, which I knew nothing about, but had every intention in the world of learning fully, with a point and shoot, at least back then, I would have been severely limited in my learning,


so as with every rule, there are exceptions..

 

[MICKEY88]

Our Ritz Camera does not offer the DSLR class yet. I upgraded to a D50 from a coolpix 3100. I would probably be one of those people asking the basic questions because I don't know much about DSLR. For those of us that only used P&S it was never a necessity to know much except which mode to set the dial to in order to take a decent picture. I attended one of the basic digital classes and I really didn't learn anything there. When they said basic they really meant it...most of the people in that class had no clue how to operate a P&S. I was told that the class that would help me would be the DSLR class once they offered it...it is my understanding that they expect to answer the very basic questions about DSLR. So maybe Ritz needs to offer an advanced DSLR class for those that have a basic understanding of SLR.

which Ritz store is that...

the one where I worked had mostly photographers working in it, and we would all gladly spend time with customers, answering questions for them as long as the store wasn't too busy...


and as always, for anyone really serious about learning that wants a good option to set class schedules, I highly recommend NYI, anyone wanting more info feel free to PM me..