I guess I'm in a very small minority: Serena Williams

[xCourxCorex]

I'm torn. Her behavior WAS out of line but it is true that John McEnroe said that and much more and was never fined or anything.

The fact is that the line judge DID screw up. It was the wrong call and it is very much an unwritten rule in professional sports to not call fouls in make or break situations like that especially if it isn't 100% clear.

Serena did behave badly. And the line judge exaggerated the threats against her.

Think of how badly you might react if you had hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line and were called on a mistake that you DIDN'T make and because of that you lost everything. Would you be happy with the person that cost you the win?

ITA

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I would think the first rep you described would be the standard. Otherwise my player and my money would be going elsewhere. If there is a ref out there that not only won't explain a call, but penalizes a player or coach for asking for clarification, why is it being tolerated?

Note that I'm not advocating arguing and certainly not advocating throwing a tantrum with the ref. And I think everything should be handled with the player and/or coach--no parents in the discussion. But if a player or coach calmly asks "Could you please clarify call X? This is what we believe happened..." and the ref does anything but offer a polite and clear explanation, that's a no-go for me.

As I explained in my previous post, kids OFTEN think "they didn't do it". They could argue almost EVERY call with a ref. I sat on the sidelines of a recent game, and one of our player's fathers...who is an excellent, award winning ref himself...told our parents a few times, after we yelled "bad call", that it was INDEED the appropriate call against our team. You cannot have a game where a ref is required to constantly explain things to everyone. The game must go on. The ref is the official of the game...what the ref says, goes. It's certainly NOT up to a child to challenge a ref.

I also said that players were carded for arguing with the ref, not asking a question. There isn't time for refs to chitchat out on the field because every kid thinks they've been done wrong. If it were a rare occasion when a kid asked about a call, and asked nicely, and for a very valid reason, fine, and I think most refs will do it. If 11 kids on the field are encouraged to "advocate" for themselves and ask questions, it would get so out of hand. The refs signals are usually readable to know what and why the call was made. The questioning, nice or not, is usually more of a challenge by a player to the call, and that's not acceptable, as far as I'm concerned. If a player didn't understand the call...didn't catch the signal, or whatever...the player can usually find out from another player, from the coach later...whatever. But the ref is not out there to babysit players and their questions.

 

[pearlieq]

you're kidding right? if someone were to threaten you angrily you would presume that it was in jest?

She's an internationally recognized celebrity in a televised sports match in front of thousands of spectators. And she threatened to shove a ball down her throat. No, I don't think the line judge was in any danger.

I don't think she was joking, I think she was having a temper tantrum. But it sure wasn't a credible threat to her personal safety.

 

[honugirl]

I would think the first rep you described would be the standard. Otherwise my player and my money would be going elsewhere. If there is a ref out there that not only won't explain a call, but penalizes a player or coach for asking for clarification, why is it being tolerated?

Note that I'm not advocating arguing and certainly not advocating throwing a tantrum with the ref. And I think everything should be handled with the player and/or coach--no parents in the discussion. But if a player or coach calmly asks "Could you please clarify call X? This is what we believe happened..." and the ref does anything but offer a polite and clear explanation, that's a no-go for me.

As someone who refs hockey, here's what I do. If it's a basic penalty call: hook, trip, slash, etc. There's no explanation. Go sit in the box. If it's a complicated situation and the coach has been nice and steps down off the bench to ice level and will speak calmly to me, I'll explain. If they raise the voice, I'm done. Continue to voice objection and we start running down the penalties (2, 10, taxi as we like to say). Per the rules, I only have to answer penalty questions from the coach and any captain who is ON THE ICE at the time of the infraction. I don't have time to answer questions on every call. Which would you rather have? I waste 90% of the hour and a quarter or hour and a half of ice time to answer questions or the kids get to play? I think we all know we'd rather have the kids playing, after all, that's what they're there for.

 

[lillygator]

She's an internationally recognized celebrity in a televised sports match in front of thousands of spectators. And she threatened to shove a ball down her throat. No, I don't think the line judge was in any danger.

I don't think she was joking, I think she was having a temper tantrum. But it sure wasn't a credible threat to her personal safety.

I wonder what would have happened if she had said that to a cop?

yes, I think it was the heat of the moment...but had someone said that to me, I would take it as a direct threat....everyone here, you really don't think you would? She already smashed a racket, what is stopping her from smashing it on someone's head?

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

I wonder what would have happened if she had said that to a cop?

yes, I think it was the heat of the moment...but had someone said that to me, I would take it as a direct threat....everyone here, you really don't think you would? She already smashed a racket, what is stopping her from smashing it on someone's head?

You were thinking down the same lines I was...I was also thinking (and yes, I know this is a VERY unlikely scenario) that if that official had turned up murdered later, Serena would be one of the first people they questioned.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

You were thinking down the same lines I was...I was also thinking (and yes, I know this is a VERY unlikely scenario) that if that official had turned up murdered later, Serena would be one of the first people they questioned.

Are you kidding me? Y'all are simply nuts. Serena Williams is now a possible murderer on the Disboards. What!

Seriously, if I was ever on trial, y'all would NOT be a "jury of my peers."

 

[DisneyMom81]

She had a foot fault - I think she knows what a foot fault is, and how to NOT do it since shes been playing for a while now, but its part of the rules. She also was well aware of the fact that she had recieved a warning for breaking her racquet earlier in the match, and that since it was not match point, if she did anything like she did, she would ultimatly lose the match. Going over to the line judge and threatning to shove the ball down her ********** throat was WAY out of line. She is suposed to be a professional - this was not professional behavior.
If you go over to a coworker and threaten him/her like that, are you going to have a job the next day? The line judges are TOLD they have to tell the court judge anything a player directs to them - she did exactly what she was supposed to do. The rules of tennis are clear - Serean has been playing the game long enough to know them. She was being a brat.

 

[FireDancer]

Had McEnroe or Connors threatened a judge today they would have had the same consequences. Things that were acceptable 20 years ago just aren't acceptable today, that is just how it is. Had Federer said the exact same thing he would have the exact same fine.

Bad calls happen all of the time in games and matches. I don't even see anything wrong in calmly talking to an umpire or referee to make your point. If there is someone in a position to overturn the call they will, if not than threatening bodily harm will get nothing accomplished. Look at Drogba's outburst in the Champions League Semi final loss at Standford Bridge last year. The referee didn't award a clear penalty and in the end Chelsea lost. It is part of the game and when Drogba punched the wall next to him in the tunnel he was fined and suspended...and he is male.

Had Serena just continued playing and put the bad call aside she could have won. That is like the Cubs blaming their loss a couple of years ago on that kid that reached out and caught the ball. Had they just gotten the guy out after that they would have won. Had Serena not lost another point after a foot foul call she would also have won.

Threatening bodily harm to a referee should have been treated the same as threatening bodily harm to a stranger on the street.

Referees are held accountable, at least in some other sports. A referee that is judged to have made a significant error in the EPL is forced to go down and referee in the Championship or League for the following week, and possible multiple weeks, as punishment. Along with it comes the reduction in pay that comes from refereeing in a lower league. In these situation the decision is reviewed after the fact but the governing body, not my the athletes on the field. Shut up and get on with it.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

From CSM:

"Tantrums are a part of tennis. But the foot-fault tantrum appears to have a special place in the tennis world.

Perhaps this is because the rule is so inconsistently enforced. A player must not touch any part of the service line during a serve, yet line judges often ignore infractions.

What's more, some players say there is an unwritten rule that – just as hockey referees call nothing but the most blatant penalties in overtime playoff games – tennis officials should ignore seemingly ticky-tack infractions like foot faults when stakes are high.

Russian Marat Safin, no stranger to implosions on and off the court (see one about another foot fault here), had this to say in his post-match press conference about being called for a foot fault on a second serve at a crucial point of last year's US open.

"I think it was complete [expletive]."

He went on to give voice to what many fans – and perhaps Williams herself – were thinking Saturday night.

"It's difficult and it's almost impossible to make a foot fault on a second serve, and especially in the important moments you shouldn't call it."

In a qualifying round for the Rogers Cup in Montreal last month, a foot fault call on a set point caused Michael Llodra to stage a courtside sit-in (here, with pictures). He sat in his chair and refused to continue playing until the tournament organizer himself arrived.

Llodra lost his appeal, his cool, and the game. More remarkably, though, was that even as he turned things around, winning the set and eventually the match, he continued to stare at the linesman and even argue with him for another 20 minutes.

The foot fault has made news in this US Open already. When a linesman called a foot fault on Williams in the second round, she gave the linesman this stare.

Earlier, in the first round, Serena's sister, Venus, was called for seven foot faults in her first-round match. Her reaction, quite different from her sister's, was to ask: "Which foot?"


http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0913/p02s01-usgn.html


You can't tell me there wasn't a hidden agenda.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

There was no agenda but it sounds like Venus had a much more classy response than her sister. And by the way, the example I gave earlier (I did say it was a very unlikely - like less than a 1/10% chance of happening - scenario) was simply meant to illustrate that the police would definitely take a threat like that seriously.

 

[downsouth]

From CSM:

"Tantrums are a part of tennis. But the foot-fault tantrum appears to have a special place in the tennis world.

Perhaps this is because the rule is so inconsistently enforced. A player must not touch any part of the service line during a serve, yet line judges often ignore infractions.

What's more, some players say there is an unwritten rule that – just as hockey referees call nothing but the most blatant penalties in overtime playoff games – tennis officials should ignore seemingly ticky-tack infractions like foot faults when stakes are high.

Russian Marat Safin, no stranger to implosions on and off the court (see one about another foot fault here), had this to say in his post-match press conference about being called for a foot fault on a second serve at a crucial point of last year's US open.

"I think it was complete [expletive]."

He went on to give voice to what many fans – and perhaps Williams herself – were thinking Saturday night.

"It's difficult and it's almost impossible to make a foot fault on a second serve, and especially in the important moments you shouldn't call it."

In a qualifying round for the Rogers Cup in Montreal last month, a foot fault call on a set point caused Michael Llodra to stage a courtside sit-in (here, with pictures). He sat in his chair and refused to continue playing until the tournament organizer himself arrived.

Llodra lost his appeal, his cool, and the game. More remarkably, though, was that even as he turned things around, winning the set and eventually the match, he continued to stare at the linesman and even argue with him for another 20 minutes.

The foot fault has made news in this US Open already. When a linesman called a foot fault on Williams in the second round, she gave the linesman this stare.

Earlier, in the first round, Serena's sister, Venus, was called for seven foot faults in her first-round match. Her reaction, quite different from her sister's, was to ask: "Which foot?"


http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0913/p02s01-usgn.html


You can't tell me there wasn't a hidden agenda.

I was wondering how long it would take for this to be implied!!

 

[lillygator]

whether there was an agenda or not, which no one can say for sure, Serena was still highly out of line.

 

[sbell111]

Had McEnroe or Connors threatened a judge today they would have had the same consequences. Things that were acceptable 20 years ago just aren't acceptable today, that is just how it is. Had Federer said the exact same thing he would have the exact same fine. ...

I think that people miss a couple things when comparing this outburst to John McEnroe's behavior.

First, the claims that McEnroe didn't get penalized are in error. McEnroe got fined on a number of occasions and earned a default in a match at least once due to his behavior.

Second, John McEnroe never, ever threatened an official. He very colorfully disagreed with their calls and questioned their ability to do their jobs, but he never threatened them.

 

[sbell111]

You can't tell me there wasn't a hidden agenda.

From your post, I can't figure out what this agenda might be.

 

[pozey]

You can't tell me there wasn't a hidden agenda.

What was the "hidden agenda"? That maybe before the tournament began, in the official's meeting, the director of officials said "Okay, we are letting players get away with too many foot faults. If you see a foot fault, call it."

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

The Williams sisters are hated by many in the tennis world. There's a lot of ugly old skoolers still hanging around. They're strong, outspoken women that don't put up with unfair treatment, that's enough to make them hated in the tennis world. And I was not inferring race, people just don't like their attitude...

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Well, I don't blame them for not liking their attitude if what Serena said is any indication.

 

[pozey]

The Williams sisters are hated by many in the tennis world. There's a lot of ugly old skoolers still hanging around. They're strong, outspoken women that don't put up with unfair treatment, that's enough to make them hated in the tennis world. And I was not inferring race, people just don't like their attitude...

I am certainly not privy to any inside info in the tennis world. I am a fan of good tennis.

I'm just not sure what - in this particular case - the "unfair treatment" was??

 

[Andy B]

Firstly John McEnroe was fined in the past in 1987 was fined $17,500 and suspended and Jeff Tarango in 1995 was suspended for two grand slan tournaments and fined $63,000, so I do not think it is a conspiracy against Serena or Women in general.

To suggest that at crucial points 'fouls' should not be called is just wrong the same standards of calling and judgement should apply throughout the match and tournament and it seems that is the case here. A tennis player makes mistakes and while humans make the calls n sports there will be errors there also but I am sure they are not deliberate and to suggest that this linesperson made the call for attention has no support.