How should I feel about this?

[thumpersfriend]

8 years ago my mother gave me l8,000 for a down payment on a home. She really wanted to live there and I thought what the heck, it would be a great place to retire so took on the payment. The reason she put the money down was because she had given my brother alot more than that to remodel his house, and pay alot of his overdue bills, etc. She wanted me to have it for this reason. She lived in this house for 8 years, and paid me about l/3 of the mortage payment. We got to use it l week a year. Anyway, we are going to sell it and now my mother says that she will take back the down payment and put it in an account with my name and my brothers name! I know that my brother will get money from her if he knows that she has it. The other thing is what to tell my brother because I wouldn't want to hurt his feelings that my mother gave me money for a down payment because he took so much from her. It really hurts my feelings and I don't know what to say to her. We shelled out alot of money on this house so she would have a nice place to live and will probably not even come out with what we have put in to it. Sorry this is so long.

 

[noodleknitter]

Can you put the financial facts on paper and talk with her about it? Leave out the brother stuff, and just show her the facts.

I hope it works out for you!

 

[mickeyboat]

I am not sure I am understanding your post.

Your mom gave you money for a down payment, and now that you are selling the house, she wants her equity back? You are angry that your mom is putting the money into an account for the benefit of both you and your brother, and you feel it should be just for you, since your mom has given so much money to your brother already?

I am not trying to offend you, but I want you to take another look at the situation.

First of all, the money rightfully belongs to your mother. She should be able to do with it what she pleases.

Also, because you were able to purchase the home with her money (both the down payment and the mortgage payments), you are probably selling it at a gain. Your mom is not laying claim to the gain, is she? If not, you still received a financial benefit (probably far and beyond the $18k), and you should appreciate that your mom's generosity allowed you to do that.

Denae

 

[MikeB63]

Don't let money cause a rift in your family. I understand that it doesn't seem "right", but it's not worth ruining family relationships. You're justified in having these feelings, but do you stand to make a profit on the house? Is it over and above the downpayment? If you do and it is, don't be greedy.

 

[thumpersfriend]

I am not angry about her wanting her money back, I am glad she will get it back. The big problem to me is that she told me that she was tired of giving my brother so much money and wanted to make it equal. This will be money my mother will need to live on. The thing that I am bothered by is that my brother will be mad because she gave me about 1/2 of what she has given him for the down payment on a house, and she told me that if she had not done this that he would have gotten that out of her too. She kept this a secret from him. I am not wanting this money but I feel I am in an uncomfortable situation. I am thinking that she should not tell my brother anything so it wouldn't cause any trouble. Then if something happens to her it would all be split equally. I love my brother and don't want to hurt his feelings. Hope this makes it more clear?

 

[CEDmom]

I'd ask her why she's doing that. Remind her why she gave you the money in the first place. In the end it's her choice but it can't hurt to try.

Keep it in perspective though. While $8000 is a nice sum it isn't life altering. I wouldn't risk a relationship with my mother or brother over it. Now a million, well that's a different story .

 

[lesroi]

The thing that I am bothered by is that my brother will be mad because she gave me about 1/2 of what she has given him for the down payment on a house, and she told me that if she had not done this that he would have gotten that out of her too. She kept this a secret from him.

I'm confused... Why would your brother even BE mad if you only got 1/2 of what he got? He still got more and didn't even have to pay your Mom back.

I would probably just sell and give your Mom the $$ without saying anything to your brother. It's none of his business anyway, right?

Good luck!

Tracy

 

[disykat]

I would also feel bad, but I don't know what I'd do.

I'm still trying to clarify what happened from your post. It looks to me like you bought a house with your mom giving you 18K for the downpayment - money given because she felt like she owed you something because she spent lots on your brother. You made the mortgage payments for 8 years - with your mother kicking in some "rent" money that was about 1/3 of your payment. Now you've decided to sell the house rather than keep it for retirement. Do I have that right?

Apparently your mother doesn't feel like she gave you the money, and now feels like she was a co-invester in the property.

I think it is very sad that you've been paying the majority of the mortgage all these years on a house for your mother to live in, thinking you were also investing in your future and you will not get anything back from your investment. Is your mother aware that the money you spent on the monthly mortgage was more than she was giving you?

 

[thumpersfriend]

Diseykat, you are understanding this very clearly! My brother would not even recognize how much money she has given him. My mother even wrote everything down and gave me a list of all the money she had given him. And we have put so much money into that house, raised septic, roof, new fireplace chimney, on and on. It has been a drain on our finances, that is why we have to sell. We will not make anything more than the repairs we put in to it. Actually we will lose money believe it or not, with the mortage payments, flood insurance, utilities, etc. That area has not gone up in value and the real estate economy is bad. But that aside, I don't want her to hurt my brothers feelings and actually as I think about it, I don't want him to know she has any extra money because he will leave her broke! I really don't want a penny from her. I really wanted her to put the money in an account with both our names on it and she wants to put it in an account with my brothers name too! I am sure then I will be paying income tax on that too. Guess she just frustrates me.

 

[chamonix]

If she did know the mortgage was more than her "rent" what does it add up to? Add up YOUR 2/3 of the mortgage payments for the years she lived there. If you did significant improvements to the property, list those amounts for her as well. Who paid the taxes? etc etc Maybe when she sees that you actually paid more or close to the amount she put down, she will realize how much money she is "owed" back from her part of the "investment".

It sounds like you are also concerned that if you give her the money in a lump sum your brother will somehow get his hands on it. Perhaps you can suggest that to her and tell her you would rather pay her an amount monthly (since you say she will need the money for living expenses anyway) to keep that from happening.

 

[thumpersfriend]

Just figured out all we have put into this home, minus my mothers 1/3 rent and if we can sell it for what things are going for we are already out 20,000. We will never get this back. This sure was a bad deal for us, but good for my mother. Maybe I am upset because I feel unappreciated and my brother who does nothing for her will just keep on taking.

 

[CheshireVal]

Maybe I am upset because I feel unappreciated and my brother who does nothing for her will just keep on taking.

I think every family must have one of those.

Sorry about your situation.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

How about you present your mother with a "bill" and ask for payment on the house improvements plus your half to try and recoup your losses.

I would definetly itemize spendings with proof and present it to her.

 

[thumpersfriend]

I think I will have to present her an itemized amount of what has been spent. I never wanted to tell her that it was costing us so much, we just wanted to help her out. She will probably feel bad but maybe once it is out in the open it will be more fair. Just another thought, I will have to pay capital gain even though I lost money, just can't prove it on paper. Thanks for all of your ideas and thoughts.

 

[Lizzy2]

I just don't understand why if she gave you the money and gave your brother other money why you should have to give back the $18,000? Did your brother have to pay back what she "gave" him?
My Mom had this problem with my Gram as she got older. She wanted to give money and family heirlooms to various family members who had already had their share (seriously, these folks agreed that they would get no inheritance or anything based on what my Gram had already given) and my Mom as her caretaker just finally said No, Mommma, we're not going to do it and stood firm. Are you your Mom's caretaker? Do you have power-of-attorney if she should become ill or mentally incapacitated? These are things you should think about. Your brother in my opinion has no right to any of this money and has no business knowing about what goes on between your Mom and you on this matter. I suspect based on the info you gave that your Mom is elderly and probably not real with it in terms of being able to see that your Bro has used her in the past. If I were you I would have all Mom's money put in a joint account with your name on it so she can't really make a move without your sayso. Also, this will mean you keeping all the checks and credit cards attached to the account and just giving her an allowance of what she needs for pocket money. Can you tell my family just went thru all of this with my Gram? I could give you some more info if you want. By the way, where is your Mom going to live now?

 

[goofinoff]

Family + Money = Trouble!!!!
You should not mix family and friends with money and investments! It's bad news and someone almost always gets burned/hurt! I say sell the house, give the money back to your mother and call it good! Who cares what your brother had done or thinks.
Move on!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Since reading your other posts you said you don't care about the money...right?

If that is the case then just let it go. Your mom can say no, but she doesn't want to. She would rather screw you over than your brother.

You have every right to feel beyond angry. However, just don't do it again...OK?

 

[Marie17]

A little weird -

Capital gains taxes only if you profit over 250k from the sale. So it seems if you are losing 20k you wouldn't need to do that.

Let's see it from your mother's point of view. She gifts you 18k for a downpayment - and pays 1/3 the mortgage. YIKES! That is one expensive apartment she is living in - that has got to be at least 6-24 months of deposit for her living quarters. She may have gotten off a lot cheaper by getting her own apartment and not giving the downpayment. She may be thinking of it in the terms of a deposit on rent(?)

It seems that you accepted the gift with the knowledge that she would be living with you and paying 33 1/3% of the mortgage payment. She does not benefit in anyway from the interest that money invested would have produced not benefit from any mortgage interest rate tax deductions that you may have. You stated that she needs this money to live on - give it back. If SHE doesn't have the willpower to NOT gift that money to your brother have it set up in an account that requires two signatures for withdrawals (yours and hers) that way she will not in a rash moment forget her sensibilities and then your name will be on the money also (and not to hard to get changed over and become a single account in the event of death).

I think in times when people give money and you accept it knowing that someone is not really responsible in their gifting practices it is in your best interest to be able to reciprocate if needed (as it seems this is the case).

 

[Chicago526]

A little weird -

Capital gains taxes only if you profit over 250k from the sale. So it seems if you are losing 20k you wouldn't need to do that.

If I'm not mistaken (and I could be) the profit from the sale is based on the differance between the purchase price and the sale price, minus improvements you made while you live there. If you live there less than 2 years OR the profit is more than $250,000 then you pay capitol gains.

So, if you buy a house for $150,000 and sell it for $250,000, you made $100,000 from the sale, so regardless of improvements, you are exempt from capitol gains as long as you lived there for more than 2 years.

If you buy a house for $150,000 and sell if for $425,000 but made $50,000 worth of improvements, your profit is $225,000 and you're still exempt ($425,000 sale price - $150,000 purchase price = $275,000 - $50,000 improvements = $225,000 profit). But, if you didn't make those improvements, your profits would be $275,000 and then you would pay capitol gains.

But don't take my word for it! If in doubt, consult a tax accountant or the IRS.

 

[thumpersfriend]

Marie l7, thanks for the info on capital gain. No my mother was not living with us. This is a vacation home that she has lived in for 8 years. It was her idea in the first place, we really didn't want to do it but wanted her to have a good place to live. Then we planned to retire there. So she has been living there for about $250 a month for the last 8 years. But you are right, the l8,000 would factor in alot. We have been paying for every thing else plus lots of repairs. She doesn't want to just have me and her on the l8,000, she wants my brothers name on it too. Like I said, he doesn't even know she did this because of all the money she shelled out to him. He doesn't know she put a down payment on it. So he will be insulted and not understand this. She will be moving in with us in our home and I will be taking care of her for the rest of her life, God willing. She knows my brother would never take her in. I will not ask for a penny while she lives with us. I have power of attorney for health only for her. Finances are still up in the air.