How many litters of pups are too many?

[Papa Deuce]

Some of you know that I have been looking for a rescue dog, and not having much luck.

Well, someone contacted us today and said that we could have one of her dogs for free - a purebred Golden Retreiver puppy. The lady has 2 females left in the litter. Still, even though she offered a puppy for free, we asked the same questions of her as we would anybody, about any puppy.

We asked about the parents of the dog.... the lady said the male dog was hit by a car this week and put to sleep, but that he was a totally healthy dog prior to the car accident.

Then we asked how many litters of puppies this female had had so far. She is almost 7 years old, and this is her 5th litter of puppies. The lady sounded so disraught by the death of the other dog, that she said she no longer had it in her to sell the puppies.

I don't know the answer, but to me that seems like a lot of litters for one dog.

 

[freckles and boo]

I don't know anything about breeding animals (the idea that people profit from mating animals is kind of creepy to me), but I would guess one litter a year would be about right. After all, the puppies are probably weened by 12 weeks and sold soon after. Animals in the wild mate each year.

 

[chager]

I asked this question of the breeders in an Aussie group I belong to. I'll forward any other answers I get too. Here is the DisBoards friendly version of the answer:

"This "female" is overly bred from!!

By the time a dog gets to 2yrs old you would consider the first litter!

This dog has been bare foot and pregnant for the past five years!

Sounds like the "female" has been mated every second season, if she comes into season twice a year!

Obviously a puppy farmer!

"Females" should be given an 18mth rest between litters and their health must be taken into consideration!

Too many in my opinion! "

 

[02bBarbie]

sounds like way too many

 

[mrsv98]

I dont know. Our breeder only breeds her dogs once a year. If the dog is 7 and has been bred once a year since she was two, thats about right. Remember, dogs are only pg for (about)63 days so the mom is pg for 2 months and not for 10.

Go to her house. See the set up. Meet the mom, see how the dogs live and how they are socialized. If it is a "purebred" pup, then you should be able to see her papers.

IMHO, those factors are the important ones you should focus on.

 

[doxdogy]

If you do decide to take one of the pups, question her about the hips of the parents. Use the link below as a guide. I would definitely make a trip out to see her and the pups. Ask her how the pups were raised. Were they kept in the house? Have they had human contact?

http://www.ygrr.org/doginfo/health-hips.html

 

[chager]

Here's a site that may answer some questions too.



http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/breeding.html
A quote from the "frequency of breeding" section:

"It's important, however, to keep the frequency of breeding low. Even at maximum, you want to allow at least one unbred season between breedings. This allows your "female" to rest and regain her strength. A "female" that whelps too often will produce weaker puppies more likely to die, and the repeated pregnancies are pretty rough on her, too.

 

[Papa Deuce]

Thanks all. From the various responses, it seems like maybe it could be borderline over breeding. I will continue to investigate.

 

[lisajl]

Definately overbreeding....doing it for the money I am sure. Most reputable breeders do not make their dogs have that many litters.

Good luck on your search for a new furbaby.
Lisa

 

[PixieDustTink]

I asked this question of the breeders in an Aussie group I belong to. I'll forward any other answers I get too. Here is the DisBoards friendly version of the answer:

"This "female" is overly bred from!!

By the time a dog gets to 2yrs old you would consider the first litter!

This dog has been bare foot and pregnant for the past five years!

Sounds like the "female" has been mated every second season, if she comes into season twice a year!

Obviously a puppy farmer!

"Females" should be given an 18mth rest between litters and their health must be taken into consideration!

Too many in my opinion! "

BRAVO to this post! I have worked with shelters and rescues for years now. If you want a new pet there are literally thousands of abandoned animals of every breed imaginable brought to shelters every single day!! Reputable breeders who are not in this for profit, and good ones RARELY make any profit but, do it for the true love of their breed, are hard to find but, forgotten abandoned pups are not! RESCUE a dog and find a life long friend!

 

[horseshowmom]

One other thought.

I agree with the others who aren't too thrilled with people who breed to sell. I know lots of folks don't have a problem with it, and they are entitled to their opinion. We have friends who breed their dog and sell the puppies, but I don't discuss it with them. I also agree that this dog has probably been overbred (borderline at best, as you said).

However, if she's giving this puppy away free, it still needs a home. She's going to do something with it, and in your case, the puppy would at least get a good home.

 

[kat3668]

Have you tried Craigslist.com for a puppy? They always have tons of pups needing good homes!
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pet/

 

[Planogirl]

Why not take the puppy if it's what you've been looking for? It sounds like the lady is done breeding the female so there's no "problem" there any more.

 

[Papa Deuce]

Have you tried Craigslist.com for a puppy? They always have tons of pups needing good homes!
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pet/

Actually I never knew that craigslsit did that. Nice to have another option.

We are going to see the puppy from this OP on Friday night now.

 

[chager]

I agree about taking the puppy. You would be giving her a great home. That is why we took our "free" puppy from a breeder. We know she has a great home. I was just simply answering your question about too much breeding. I feel sorry for the mama dog.

 

[Papa Deuce]

BRAVO to this post! I have worked with shelters and rescues for years now. If you want a new pet there are literally thousands of abandoned animals of every breed imaginable brought to shelters every single day!! Reputable breeders who are not in this for profit, and good ones RARELY make any profit but, do it for the true love of their breed, are hard to find but, forgotten abandoned pups are not! RESCUE a dog and find a life long friend!

I ceratinly can not dispute this. but my wife was talking to a woman today who sells AKC Golden Retrivers for $1200 each?

www.copperlee.com

And, no, I am not paying $1200 for a puppy.

 

[RNMOM]

Papa Deuce,

I have had goldens (2) for 13 yrs. each and now have an Irish Setter. Goldens are wonderful dogs, as are setters, but more easily trained and compliant.

That said..whether or not the female is overbred, it sounds like this will not continue with her male gone and the age of the female. I guess I am uncertain what that has to do with the pups. If you want one, find the temperment of the mother and the pups to your liking, what is keeping you from giving the little angel a home? I would go and look at the dogs and if you fall in love with one, it is meant to be. I imagine this lady might appreciate a couple photos over the years to let her see how her last litter from her beloved male has grown.

If she is this distraught over loosing the male, I find it hard to imagine she is an abusive breeder. To many people looking to make money from breeding, they are just another animal. Those of us who love our pets know differently.

Our setter was the last pup from a litter of 14 and was discounted a bit. He was diagnosed with a level 3 heart murmur. We didn't fully understand what that meant until we had already brought him home and fallen madly in love. Our vet recommended we return him due to the heart issue. We decided that evening that if he was returned he would likely be euthanized. If we kept him we decided we were willing to have the necessary tests, meds or treatments recommended. Well, even the cardiac vet had examined him and agreed with our vet. Two months later we were dealing with the issue of neutering. We took him in for blood work and an exam. Guess what, no heart murmur. Both vets spent a long time listening and couldn't find any hint of murmur. I figure the love and nurturing we gave him payed off. He was fed very high quality food and given lots of exercise. He is spoiled rotten and is basically a lap dog wannabe. He is healthy and when he sees his doctor, he still shakes his head.

My moral of this tale, if you want to have a pup and this lady has reasonably healthy pups to give, why hesitate? Go and see if your heart tells you it is meant to be.

 

[Lanshark]

Poorly bred Goldens are prone to certain health issues that could cost you a lot of money in the long run. I knew a person who had to put her beloved dog down at just 3 years old because of hip problems. She spent over $3000 dollars trying to help the dog before the situation got so bad that there was no other choice.

Nothing is ever free. She does not sound like a responsible breeder.

 

[Papa Deuce]

RNMOM... I hear ya on the Irish Setters.... we had one that we adopted from the SPCA. Wonderful, loving dog...... I can only say that it wasn't the shiniest bulb on the string.... DUUMBEST DOG I EVER HAD.... But, at that time my dad had a brain tumor ( eevntually died from it ).... this dog was AMAZING for my dad!

And anytime a family member was sick, this dog "knew" it. And he was your best buddy til you got well!

 

[poohandwendy]

Poorly bred Goldens are prone to certain health issues that could cost you a lot of money in the long run. I knew a person who had to put her beloved dog down at just 3 years old because of hip problems. She spent over $3000 dollars trying to help the dog before the situation got so bad that there was no other choice.

Nothing is ever free. She does not sound like a responsible breeder.

That is my big concern here. I had a golden with hip dysplasia, and we were fortunate that it showed up when he was 10...instead of in his earlier years. Honestly, HD is an awful thing for the dog and is extremely costly. And it is especially common in goldens who are poorly bred. Think about it this way, if she was ignorant to the issues with overbreeding a female it's probably unlikely se was super concerned about genetic predisposition for hip issues.

That said, I am a sucker. I would probably fall in love with the dog and take him/her and deal with the medical issues as they came. I am just a glutton for punishment that way.

But, if you are not prepared to take on potentially serious and costly medical issues, then please do not take this puppy. Do more research and pay whatever necessary to get a puppy from parents who are certified against genetic health issues.

Good luck with it, Goldens are awesome dogs.