Heads up cruisers- are you flying DELTA??

[Grumbo]

Having followed this thread from its original location on the Disney Cruise Forum, to its movement here the story has morphed from a lambasting of Delta and their employees and the treatment of Jeanne's daughter and her inability to handle it to I don't feel bumping of 17 year olds should be permitted.
I truly think that you were pi###d big time when this thread started and I've been there before trust me. I think you've calmed down a LOT now, but that said going to the FAA and your elected representatives and lobbying for changes????
There are many battles in life. You have to pick which ones are worth fighting, and which ones will make a difference.
Sorry but this one is truly a no win fight. Even if you could possibly get them to do something it would take forever, plus with the shape of the airline business they just are NOT going to change laws that will put more pressure on the airline industry.
As an informational post, and go to Delta about their agent Terry - Yes, but I truly think you're "tilting at Windmills on this one".
Cheers,
Grumbo

 

[Jeanne434]

Hi Grumbo- thanks for your input. I have calmed down about the personal issues- just enough to be able to personally let the Airline know how I feel abut Terry!
As for tilting at windmills- I don't have a problem with that at all. At the least I will be able to say that I did what I could to change something I saw as needing changing.
If nothing gets changed then so be it. I think it is the shame and risk of the airlines if they continue to overnight bump teens who are travelling alone. I am surprised that they are willing to take this liability on themselves even if they can. In the times of multi million dollar litigations why would they open them selves up to such actions when it could so easily be avoided by simply adopting a policy of not bumping teens into hotel rooms over night. In this challenging time for the airlines I would think they would be busy covering thier back sides!
And I do suspect that it has something to do with the fact that a teen is less savvy and more likely to quietly take the bump then an adult. As I have investigated more it turns out that DD was not compensated as much as she should have been for the overnight bump. Will I ask for more money? Probably not. This isn't about money. It is about a risky business policy- or lack of policy.
Thanks again for your calm, well mannered response!

 

[nicurnc]

No Jeanne434, I don't think allowing a teen to be bumped overnight is necessarily a good idea. But again, I don't think I need a law to tell me that. In your situation I would have known every variable that might have come up, and then decided whether or not I would chose to put my teen in that situation.

I hate to resort to a "when I was that age story", but at 17 I went on trips with friends and alone and handled any crisises that came about. The ink on my driver's license was barely dry when I routinely drove into NYC to bring an aunt back down to our house. I handled flat tires,breakdowns,etc., beause my parents always rehearsed what to do "if..."
So why should a resourceful self-sufficient teen be penalized or treated any differently than any other passenger? Who gets to decide at the gate who gets bumped? Every passenger waiting would like to get to their destination, so a 17 y/o flying alone (and who hasn't paid the extra to be escorted) may get to stay while a passenger who let's say is going home to visit a dying parent might instead be bumped?

You are missing my point...NO ONE should get bumped. If you want to see something changed, that's what you should be going after. Teens flying alone is a parental responsibilty and decision.

Loretta

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by Jeanne434
Please - a direct question- do you really think that overnight bumping of teens is a good idea? It may be legal, it may happen, perhaps I should have known better, but do you honestly think it is good policy? Is it good and common sense to put an unknown teen into a hotel room? Okay -so thats more then one question- sorry! lol

Here is my answer to this question. If the parent decides to put their underage child on an aircraft and not inform the airline up front and pay for the service the airline is supplying to have the underage child treated as such, then yes it is fine for the airline to put them in a hotel. The airlines, all of them, have plans in place to ensure that your child is not left unattended, or stuck in a hotel room, if you chose to pay for it. Everything the airlines do has a price tag associated with it.

If the parent opts to buy a child an airline ticket, and not pay for the airline to handle the child as an underage child that is your choice. However the child had better be prepared to handle any and all situations that any regular traveller may face including getting bumped, stuck in a hotel or stranded in an airport during a connection.

If a parent wants their underage child to get special handling and special status as an underage traveller the parent had better pay for the service to ensure child's safety and the parents peace of mind.

 

[nicurnc]

Amen, Allelujah!

 

[dvc guy]

2 thoughts.
Why did your daughter not board the plane at time her row was called if she had a seat assigned to her, and had her boarding pass.

Has anyone had assigned seats, boarding passes and checked in 90 minutes prior to departure been denied boarding??

I have children and feel bad for your daughter, but something is not right. I do agree that the FAA needs to adjust the policy.

 

[cjsmith]

Since you've calmed down and are busy answering to other posts to this thread, I don't see why you won't let us know the answers to the questions that I have asked. Like, what time did you daughter check in and were you with her? Did she have a boarding pass with a seat assignment or not? Was she at the gate on time? Where was your brother during this whole situation? Interestingly enough, you seem to never want to answer these questions and because of that, I still find it hard to believe that you daugther was bumped from her return flight for no other reason that she was a teen.
As far as any liability issues, there really are none. You are the parent who booked your teenage daughter on the last flight of the day alone, knowing full well that any kind of problem could have arisen, whether it be bumplng, bad weather, or a mechanical issue. When you made the decision to put your daughter on the plane alone, you took the liability, not the airline. When you didn't pay for her to be an unaccompanied child on her flight, you made her a responsible adult in the eyes of the airline and they acted accordingly.

 

[Lewisc]

I don't agree. If a teenager is mature enough to travel without (paying for) extra supervision they should be subject to the same bumping rules of all other customers.

Being bumped not once but twice is hard to believe. I've always (on domestic fligths) seen an excess of volunteers. I don't think we're getting the full story. I think either the teenager did something "wrong" (checked in late, didn't board when called or had some type of stand by ticket) or the airline didn't follow correct procedure for bumping.

The OP may not agree, but there are too many uncontrollable circumstances (weather, mechanical) that may occur. If the passanger can't handle a missed flight (even overnight) for any reason she shouldn't fly alone.

I think either the airline took advantage of an inexperienced flyer or the 17 year old didn't check in when she should have.

I always check the night before my flight to see if it's overbooked.

 

[CarolA]

Personally this just gets stranger and stranger. The minor was escorted to the gate by her uncle, who appears to live in Orlando but was MADE to stay at a hotel. Why didn't the uncle take her home? That would have elimated the whole mess about the hotel room.

I am sorry I want to believe the OP, but something does not read right about this. The OP keeps saying she only posted this as a warning, but has posted TWO polls that seem to indicate she wants to get her local congresscritter to pass laws making it illegal to bump the 17 year old.

 

[mcnuss]

Has anyone had assigned seats, boarding passes and checked in 90 minutes prior to departure been denied boarding??

The only time I have heard of this was someone who had a ticket from Priceline.

 

[zulaya]

I think this is the longest thread I have ever seen on the Transportation Board. Hopefully I can exercise my thread killing powers here because it seems to be beaten to death.

Yes, it's probably not the best flying experience.

Is Delta the only one that does this? No. Just because you had the experience with Delta doesn't mean they are the only airline that does it. Every airline overbooks - they have to fly as full as possible to make money to pay their employees, etc. Blame the people who didn't show up years ago that made this policy go into effect at all airlines.

Should you go to the top so this "Terry" gets an earful? Do the best you can, but unless you are there, how can you be sure it really happened? Just like Disney and every other company, there are bad apples mixed in with the good. If this experience has soured you, then by all means, make your disgust known with your pocketbook and don't fly Delta.

Should you lobby your congressperson? If you have the time, the money and the energy to spend on that crusade, feel free. I feel like others here that this is a battle not worth fighting.

Now, my brother flies just about every airline for work. He has flown Delta and has no problem with them. I am flying Delta in a couple weeks. Does your report make me fear I will be bumped? Maybe a little, but not enough to lose sleep over.

I also feel that if you truly wanted to give some consumer advice - and not raise a bru-ha-ha on these boards - then you could have worded your opening post as an informative warning without all the drama.

 

[Jeanne434]

Sorry for the delay in responding- I have not been avoiding your questions - I am sick. I seem to have brought some wee microbe home from my recent magical vacation. Not exactly the type of souvenier one would desire but well worth it I suppose!
I will try to address your questions- I'm not even sure why- except I hate having people question my honesty or motives. Most of the questions have already been answered, some I am just learning the answer to.
So here goes.
Yes- it was the last flight- I was remiss in finding this out- I looked today and indeed it was. The flight left at abut 7PM I just assumed (my bad move) that there were later flights.
If a full fare ticket costs a thousand dollars or more then I guess this was not a full fare. I do know it was not cheap, it was not a promo or give away offer, it was more then double the (in fact triple) the fare we payed on SWA for the same trip. I am not an experienced flyer- When I said it was a full fare ticket I was meaning to say that it was not part of the package deal that we had won. I was not trying to be deceptive.
I KNOW DD was at gate 3 hours early- I brought her there and paid porter to handle her luggage. I KNOW she was there in plenty of time. She had an assigned seat, boarding pass in hand. As I have learned more I have come to suspect that the Airlines (please notice I no longer use the name! lol) did not use correct procedures for getting voluntary bumpers. They offered up to $250 and stopped there- apparently this is not sufficient for an overnight bump. I am still looking into it.
My brother was with DD at the airport- he does NOT live in Orlando- that is why they stayed at a hotel- he DID stay with her- Once she had her boarding pass he left her to tend to his three young girls- here's how it went down. Brother and his girls met us at MCO for a a visit after our Dis cruise. They live three hours away and we haven't seen them in years. It was a nice end to iur vacation and a nice surprise for all the cousins to see each other after more then a year apart. We spent the day at the Hyatt and then we got a porter for all out luggage- we were brought to SWA gate by porter- he dropped us and our luggage- then he, DD, brother and 3 neices went on to Delta (oops I said it again!) Well ahead of schedule for DD departure time. DD checked luggage and secured boarding pass and seat assignment. brother left her after awhile figuring that she had it all set up to go since his DD's were restless. Okay- so now you know- yikes! lol
Agents began asking for volunteers to unboard- began offering flight vouchers- no takers, worked up to $250 cash (well a check really) and still no takers. At that time DD was informed that she was chosen to ne voluntarily unboarded. As I said before - The CORPORATE Offices have it on record as being an UNVOLUNTARY UNBOARDING- DD did not unboard on her own accord.
I understand that we have to try to prepare for the uncontrollable circumstances thatmay occur when we fly. In my eyes this was entirerly avoidable. The airline CHOSE to bump a teen travelling alone over night.That is the bottom line. That is the practice that needs to be stopped.
I think the airline did indeed take advanrage of an inexperienced travelor- say one less likely to know that $250 is not enough compensation for an overnight bumping. The more I look into it the more I think it smells....at first I gave the airline the benefit of the doubt and thought that they just acted foolishly- now I am beginning to question thier motives.
There are two polls only because I was inept at setting up the poll! It still isn't right or set up as I wanted. I tried to delete the first one but got a pop up message stating that only moderators can delete or edit polls. Sorry.
And you are right- I do want my representatives -not my congresscritters as someone referred to them- to address this. Teens should not be bumped over night. It is a dangerous practice. And if there isn't a law- there ought to be.
Okay I have tried to answer all questions- I feel put on the spot to keep the record staright. I will be doing what I can do ensure the safety of teens travelling alone in the future. This will include speaking outon this and contacting FAA, airline officials, the general public and news media. Many people have been surprised as I was to learn of this lack of policy. It invites trouble.
As for this thread i am weary of it. The hostile nature of many of the replies is ugly. I am weary of people questioning my motives- My goodness- what do you think my motives are?? Why would I spend hours here trying to get a simple point across all the while having my motives questioned. What do you suppose I have gained? Why do you think I have bothered to try to answer each question to the best of my ability? Come on guys- cut me some slack here. I may not have done things the way you would have- I may not be as perfect as some- but I do know that I am a reasonably well educated parent who HAD NO IDEA THAT THE AIRLINES COULD OR WOULD DO THIS! I have learned a lot in this past week- and if I knew then what i know now I would have payed the extra bucks to secure daughters safe passage even though it does feel a little like blackmail somehow...lol "for an extra forty bucks we'll exercise reasonable and due caution when dealing with your teen...hehehe..." I have become more cynical- much less trusting of an airlines willingness to do the right thing even if they are not legally obliged to. I have also been taken by surprise by the inability of so many adults to engage in an honest and open debate about something without gettting mean, hostile or throwing rocks. That was an eye opener. Chill out guys- talk nice- be kind- listen to each other.
I am happy for the people who have stated that this will help them make different decisions. I'm glad I could help in that way. I was happy to go back and forth with the people who were reasonable and polite.
That said- I wish you all well and take my leave! good night.
Watch the news.
That said I bid

 

[ducklite]

Have you ever thought that your daughter was the only person travelling as an individual traveler?

Would you rather have had them break up a family?

As I've said before, you had the option to pay the extra $40 unescorted minor fee, which you chose not to do. That would have more or less ensured her a seat, barring mechanical or weather type problems. You chose not to, which to the airlines means that you are comfortable that your DD can manage on her own. The airlines provide transportation, not babysitting services. If your child can't handle unforseen circumstances, then they SHOULD NOT travel alone.

How dare you try to lobby for laws making it illegal for minors to travel alone? Just because YOUR DAUGHTER couldn't handle it, and YOU didn't take proper precautions doesn't mean that the rest of the teens in the world or their parents need to be penalized for it.

You screwed up, take it as a lesson learned and get on with your life. End of story.

Anne

 

[Grumbo]

"How dare you"?????

Jeanne you have explained yourself, we have gone over all of this, you give a rational explanation. You admit you were naive about certain aspects of the airline industry and as I have said I feel you're tilting at windmills on this one and don't feel you'll get anywhere on it, but to each their own.
Ducklite perhaps we aren't all as perfect as you are, but having read your posts over the past months I doubt few of us could ever come up to your standards.
Have a coffee first thing in the morning Anne before you post these. Might help your disposition.
Cheers,
Grumbo

 

[ducklite]

Excuse me? Because I state the truth in a matter of fact tone you insult me? I never claimed to be perfect. But I also don't come onto a public forum ranting about something that I screwed up to begin with.

The OP has the audacity to want to regulate the airlines because of her lack of forethought and research. Inexperience is not an excuse.

If you don't like my posts, I've got a simple solution. Don't read them.

Anne

 

[Grumbo]

Nope sorry I don't excuse you.
The timber of your posts (this one plus many previous ones) are so condescending.
As for not reading them?
Heck they oft times give me my morning laugh as well as makes me realize how self important you are on here and gives me something to try and avoid personally ....
You have a cheery day Anne
Cheers,
Grumbo

 

[Lewisc]

Anne--Thanks for speaking up. No law is needed. The law (or policy change) OP wants won't solve the problem (minors needing supervision for all flight problems including weather/mechanical). I bet if you took a poll more people have had flight problems due to weather or mechanical than from overbooking. If a passenger needs special treatment they should pay extra for it. I think a fair deal would be to guarantee that ALL passengers that pay for a FULL fare ticket be guaranteed no bumping (I suspect that is already the case).

Although lost through the posts is the real problem, airlines need to do a better job handling passengers that are bumped and passengers need to know their rights. I believe priority is supposed to be by ticket class and either time checked in or by time reservation was made. It sounds like the procedure wasn't followed.

I've seen an airline pay to bump 2 people when they only needed 1 seat. The only volunteer was a couple that said both or nothing and the airline spent the extra money so as not to have to involuntarily bump anyone.

Don't want to sound rude to OP but it's the PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY to determine if the child is capable of handling travelling alone. I suspect many 17 year olds can handle adversity better than many senior citizens. Out of curiousity (if OP is still reading) when did you buy the ticket, where did you buy it (travel agent, airline 800 number, website, web travel agent...)and what did the ticket cost.

 

[Aisling]

How dare you try to lobby for laws making it illegal for minors to travel alone?

Ducklite, the OP wants to lobby that airlines should not be allowed to bump minors, which is anyone under the legal age of 18, not to make it illegal for minors to travel alone.

The OP has the audacity to want to regulate the airlines because of her lack of forethought and research. Inexperience is not an excuse.

I don't see this as inexperience to assume that your minor child will be bumped. I see this as common sense thinking. A minor may be old enough to fly alone, to sit on a airplane and be taken from point A to point B. This does not mean that JUST BECAUSE a minor travels alone, they should be treated as a legal adult. This 17 year old girl didn't need a nursemaid to babysit her for the flight, she is old enough to sit on the plane and get where she needs to go. But being old enough to fly alone doesn't mean you're of legal age to be put into a hotel room for the night.

Jeanne, I understand exactly what you've been saying, and I agree with you 100%. The airline was wrong.

 

[Lewisc]

Aisling
The point you're missing--what about weather and mechanical problems. OP request doesn't solve the problem.
If the minor is only capable of flying from A to B with no deviation THEY CAN'T FLY ALONE without paying for extra supervision. The involuntary bumping due to overbooking is a red herring.

 

[cjsmith]

The problem with there being a regulation in regards to not bumping teens over night, is that this will allow teens to check in late and take the place of those in checked in on time. What needs to be done is simple, unaccompanied teens should NOT be allowed to fly on the last flight of the day ever. Of course, who's responsibility is it now to make sure this doesn't happen, the airlines to the parents of the teen, that is the question. And what happens if all the last flights get cancelled due to inclement weather and the airport shuts down? Since both the airline and the parent equally share responsiblity in this particular situation, there isn't a congress person or anyone in government who is going to be willing to go to bat for this. While Delta shouldn't have bumped a teen overnight, if they did indeed do this, it was unfortunately equally the responsibility of the parent not to have booked their teen on the last flight out. At his point, it needs to be chalked up as a learning experience, since that is all that you're going to get out of it. Choosing to place your child on the flight alone, the last flight of the day, meant that you determined that your daughter was capable of traveling on her own and all of the responisibilities that came along with it.