Headline here: Houses are left behind to pay car, credit bills

Since the Budget boards konws all... And everyone who gets in ANY trouble is the "other guy who did it wrong"

Why am I upside down?. I put the 20% down, don't have one of those crazy mortgages, have never re-financed, have never taken a home equity loan, have a VERY reasonable size home (1600 square feet) etc..

(Could be the market... NAH must be the consumer's fault LOL!)

Now, I am not "walking" away. I don't need to sell and figure in a few years it will rebound (and I am really not in too bad of shape, I could SELL for the remaining mortgage it's just not going to recover my costs much less make a profit right now)


I point this out to say that some of the talk on here is a little extreme.
 
Since the Budget boards konws all... And everyone who gets in ANY trouble is the "other guy who did it wrong"

Why am I upside down?. I put the 20% down, don't have one of those crazy mortgages, have never re-financed, have never taken a home equity loan, have a VERY reasonable size home (1600 square feet) etc..

(Could be the market... NAH must be the consumer's fault LOL!)

Now, I am not "walking" away. I don't need to sell and figure in a few years it will rebound (and I am really not in too bad of shape, I could SELL for the remaining mortgage it's just not going to recover my costs much less make a profit right now)


I point this out to say that some of the talk on here is a little extreme.

You are exactly why these extreme mortgages are a bad idea.

A house is a long term investment and not something to flip or use as an ATM machine. Investments go up and they go down. On needs to be able to ride the roller coaster wrt investments, including the house. Too many people say housing cannot go down. Well it did in the later 80s and it is doing it now. The ones who were upside down in the 80s and who stayed and paid their mortgages found in a few years they were back to the pre-slump price and then it was up from there.

The ones who are innocent are the ones who do the right thing and then had to sell. If it was for a job transfer, they might be able to get the company to help with the closing and some of the loss.
 
Since the Budget boards konws all... And everyone who gets in ANY trouble is the "other guy who did it wrong"

Why am I upside down?. I put the 20% down, don't have one of those crazy mortgages, have never re-financed, have never taken a home equity loan, have a VERY reasonable size home (1600 square feet) etc..

(Could be the market... NAH must be the consumer's fault LOL!)

Now, I am not "walking" away. I don't need to sell and figure in a few years it will rebound (and I am really not in too bad of shape, I could SELL for the remaining mortgage it's just not going to recover my costs much less make a profit right now)


I point this out to say that some of the talk on here is a little extreme.

You have the right attitude. Values do come back. While it's depressing to owe more than the house is worth, you didn't do anything wrong, as you say, and this will be a temporary situation. It might take a few years, unfortunately.

The point is that people are always told that their houses are an "investment" and that isn't really true. People should think of their houses as a home not an investment. For the most part, a house is a liability. It costs you to live there, and does not spin off any income unless it's a multi-family or you are renting it out. Eventually, it may sell for more than the person paid for it, but by the time you figure in inflation, and all the money spent on taxes and maintenance etc., generally the profit is not huge. That's why it was obvious that something was not right when in some areas of the country housing prices were going up 20 or 30% per year. That's not typical or logical. It was an unsupportable abberation, which is being proven right now as values go back to normal levels.
 
You are exactly why these extreme mortgages are a bad idea.

A house is a long term investment and not something to flip or use as an ATM machine. Investments go up and they go down. On needs to be able to ride the roller coaster wrt investments, including the house. Too many people say housing cannot go down. Well it did in the later 80s and it is doing it now. The ones who were upside down in the 80s and who stayed and paid their mortgages found in a few years they were back to the pre-slump price and then it was up from there.

The ones who are innocent are the ones who do the right thing and then had to sell. If it was for a job transfer, they might be able to get the company to help with the closing and some of the loss.

Once again I am AMAZED!!! Apparently I did it all wrong:rotfl:

This has to be the most judgemental board I have ever seen.

Since the value of my home has dropped by by around 40%, I am WRONG??? That's just amazing.

And did you READ my post before slamming me???? I am NOT using my home as a "cash machine":rotfl2: I am not in one of those no down payment, no etc loans. As a matter of fact the ONLY reason I only put 20% down was that I felt that the housing market was topping and the return on my last sale could make me MORE money in another investment (which has proven to be right)
 


Since the Budget boards konws all... And everyone who gets in ANY trouble is the "other guy who did it wrong"

Why am I upside down?. I put the 20% down, don't have one of those crazy mortgages, have never re-financed, have never taken a home equity loan, have a VERY reasonable size home (1600 square feet) etc..

(Could be the market... NAH must be the consumer's fault LOL!)

Now, I am not "walking" away. I don't need to sell and figure in a few years it will rebound (and I am really not in too bad of shape, I could SELL for the remaining mortgage it's just not going to recover my costs much less make a profit right now)


I point this out to say that some of the talk on here is a little extreme.

This happened to us. DH purchased the house when values were high, put down 20%. When we married we put a lot of money into the house and still it went way down in value. We were never upside down but boy we were close. It was hard. Not too far from us there was a small development and the homes there sold for around $750,000. When the market tumbled the ones not sold were worth about $250,000. I have no idea how those folks handled that mortgage fiasco but was grateful we were not in the same boat.
 
Once again I am AMAZED!!! Apparently I did it all wrong:rotfl:

This has to be the most judgemental board I have ever seen.

Since the value of my home has dropped by by around 40%, I am WRONG??? That's just amazing.

And did you READ my post before slamming me???? I am NOT using my home as a "cash machine":rotfl2: I am not in one of those no down payment, no etc loans. As a matter of fact the ONLY reason I only put 20% down was that I felt that the housing market was topping and the return on my last sale could make me MORE money in another investment (which has proven to be right)

I worded that first sentence wrong. The rest did not apply to you. I was trying to explain why the extreme mortgages are so wrong.

You did not use the extreme mortgages and you did it the right way but you were still hurt by this. Sorry I worded it incorrectly.
 
Yeah, what CarolA said.

There was another thread about this not long ago. The focus, I believe, was Michigan. Somewhere were lots of people were out of work, there were no new jobs to be had, house prices were dropping like crazy (and didn't seem that high to begin with, at least to me), and there are foreclosures in every neighborhood. That also got ugly.

It can happen to anyone if the circumstances are right/wrong.
 


I think the lesson in this housing crisis is that it's a really good idea to buy LESS house than you can afford, and re-mortgage only to get lower interest rates. It seems like most of the stories I hear like this are from people who either bought more house than they could afford (living on the edge) or refinanced to get cash for other expenditures like high credit card bills (also living on the edge). I think I benefited from having a dad that was out of work a few times, because it was really important to me that our mortgage be manageable if something happened and we only had one of our incomes. The irony of it all is that with home prices so depressed, more and more young couples will get into more house than they can afford now, so I don't see an end in sight. And as an aside, I sure wish the public schools took teaching personal finance as seriously as they take teaching algebra (I mean, who uses algebra after high school anyway?:))!
 
We live just north of Phoenix, AZ and are in one of the worst declining markets. People bought when house prices were soaring and fully believed they were going to keep doing so. One of the neighborhoods 5 miles south of us has 1500 houses for sale, 700 of which are foreclosures, or ones where people just walked away, and that number is rising daily. These are homes that are only 2-5 years old, some less. People owe hundreds of thousands more than the houses are worth and have no equity so they just walk away.

Bothers me to see people think like that, we also were raised to believe you take care of your responsabilities, but we live in a society of wanting it all, and believing you deserve it, whether or not you can afford it. My daughter just turned 10, and my little one just turned 4, but they are already learning the value of money, and saving, and not spending more than you have. Got to teach them young!
 
There are people who are not at fault for ending up "upside down" and I do feel very sorry for them. If someone bought right at the peak in many markets in California, Florida, Las Vegas, etc. their timing was unfortunate. These markets were driven so high by speculators buying multiple houses and day-trading them like stocks, and fraudulent mortgage companies getting people loans who should never have qualified, that the entire market was just wacky. Prices in some of these areas have declined by 15% last year and another 15-20% is projected for this year. Even with a large downpayment, people who did nothing wrong aside from buying "at the top" are under water.

I remember watching shows a couple years ago on HGTV like "House Hunters" and the couples had put off buying because prices were so high, but after another two or three years of increases, they gave up and bought. Not their fault. Bad timing. Bubbles always last longer than you think possible, and the housing bubble was no exception.

I don't believe in people walking away from obligations. A huge percentage of people that are in trouble did stupid things and created their own problems, but not all of them. Bad monetary policy from the Fed, the lack of proper regulation of the mortgage industry, and other factors created this nightmare, so I can see why some people believe the government should take some responsibility in mitigating the disaster now. The problem is in sorting out the deserving and the undeserving. It really isn't possible. Plus, any aide by the "government" is really aide by "us the taxpayers." There is no practical solution.
 
I can say that the banks are not really learning their lesson either in some cases.

My DH and I bought our home in 2000, put 5% cash down, and financed remaining. We didn't have time to save up as much as we wanted as we lived in a small 2bedroom appt we were renting and were pregnant with second child. So we went ahead and bought ahome. In 2001 we refinanced when rates dropped to about 5% and took the loan from 30 to 15yr, instead of the cash savings on the monthly payment. We do have a home equity loan, set up on 20yrs (it was originally for home repair (moldy kitchen and mice) and to pay off a credit card (charged up when I tried to stay home with my sick son). We then refinanced the loan to take out the remaining equity in the home instead of a business loan for DH's business. The business pays for a % of that loan. Anyways, we went to the bank a couple weeks ago in hopes of refinancing the home in order to home and home equity together to make one loan on a 10yr fixed loan so it would all be paid off in ten years. We didn't do it, the monthly payment was going to be more than we could do right now on just my salary. But, they kept on trying to talk me into doing a 30yr loan for it all and that way I could just pay the minimum payment when I was short of cash, but they would tell me what I would need to pay extra in order to pay it off in 10 yrs. No thank you. That's how you get in trouble. We have made enough bad decisions as it is (should have never stayed home, my emotional feelings overruled my head, as much as I wanted it, we just couldn't financially do it at the time).

The bank even called me twice after I declined that option, to just make sure I hadn't changed my mind.

I know this is not related to housing, but in a way it is, my DH told me about his friend from fantasy football, that paid for his daughters college (4ys) on all these different credit cards. Paid only minimums and took out cash advances on one to pay minimums on the others and then after she graduated, he declared bankruptcy.
 
I know this is not related to housing, but in a way it is, my DH told me about his friend from fantasy football, that paid for his daughters college (4ys) on all these different credit cards. Paid only minimums and took out cash advances on one to pay minimums on the others and then after she graduated, he declared bankruptcy.

Wow, that has to be the epitome of irresponsible. It sounds like he planned the whole thing from the start with the intention of declaring bankrupcy. I know they have tightened up bankrupcy laws, so Im not sure how this will play out for him. Unbelievable.
 
Wow, that has to be the epitome of irresponsible. It sounds like he planned the whole thing from the start with the intention of declaring bankrupcy. I know they have tightened up bankrupcy laws, so Im not sure how this will play out for him. Unbelievable.

It does doesn't it? That means that he actually planned this at least 2 yrs ago, if she got a AA or 4 yrs if she got a BA/BS. That is pretty much before the economy and housing market and job markets took their plunge.

And, here I am chomping at the bit to pay off my disney vacation that I put on my Disney card (points purposes only :goodvibes ). Except disney still owes me 100.00 where they said they would waive the 100.00 cancellation fee since I am not cancelling my vacation, just moved it to AAA since it saved me 250.00. So as soon as it shows, the check is in the mail.
 
Once again I am AMAZED!!! Apparently I did it all wrong:rotfl:

This has to be the most judgemental board I have ever seen.

Since the value of my home has dropped by by around 40%, I am WRONG??? That's just amazing.

And did you READ my post before slamming me???? I am NOT using my home as a "cash machine":rotfl2: I am not in one of those no down payment, no etc loans. As a matter of fact the ONLY reason I only put 20% down was that I felt that the housing market was topping and the return on my last sale could make me MORE money in another investment (which has proven to be right)


Pretty much. Don't let it bug you. You can always start a "I hate Dave Ramsey thread" and really bring out the flames. ;)
 
Once again I am AMAZED!!! Apparently I did it all wrong:rotfl:

This has to be the most judgemental board I have ever seen.

Since the value of my home has dropped by by around 40%, I am WRONG??? That's just amazing.

And did you READ my post before slamming me???? I am NOT using my home as a "cash machine":rotfl2: I am not in one of those no down payment, no etc loans. As a matter of fact the ONLY reason I only put 20% down was that I felt that the housing market was topping and the return on my last sale could make me MORE money in another investment (which has proven to be right)


Yikes!
I didn't read mickeyfan's response as a slam to you at all. :confused3
I think he/she is saying much the same as I did in my earlier post.
We're slamming the crazy lending policies.

And speaking for myself only... the people who agreed to them and signed on the dotted line too. After all a home is generally the single largest purchase most folks will make. Does that not warrant serious consideration and some number crunching and financial planning, no matter what the crazy mortgage guy is telling you?

Yes, some people did everything right and are still upside down right now. The thing is they are generally in much better shape to hang in there and wait for a turn around, and have much more incentive to do so, than people who used the creative financing products.

ie: in my earlier example those folks are upside down by $240,000 with a personal investment of only $3,500. Try to convince them that they should stick it out. (We are in a still declining market in CA btw)
While I have no idea what their income is... I do know the general stats for this area, and I'd say it's a safe bet that they didn't have the $224,750 yearly income necessary to keep up with their nearly $7,500 monthly payments either.
Many people here were betting on the crazy price increases continuing forever. Believe me, we heard it all.
:rolleyes:

On the other hand if they HAD done everything right they would be down by maybe $12,000, with manageable monthly payments, as well as a sizeable downpayment at risk. Not nearly as likely to walk away in that situation.
 
How stupid and "live for the moment" can some people be? Don't they ever want any equity? Don't they ever plan to pay off their mortgage? Do they want to be paying on a mortgage at 60?

The way I see it, most of the population will be living off "reverse mortgages" in their old age, if they have any equity by then, then the bank gets the house when they're dead. Depressing.

This is one of my neighbor's quotes: I'm always going to be paying "something" to live somewhere, so if I can afford the payment, I'm going to take whatever cash out that I can.

I imagine this played out well in his mind during the 7 years when all someone had to do was stick a "for sale" sign in their yard and then pick the best of 5 buyers the next day. Seriously, I bet it'll be 15-20 years (if ever) before he can catch up to owing what it can be sold for.
 
Things are bad.

I drove around in an area near here where there are homes that are being lived in as well as new houses.

So many are for sale.

I saw three open houses on the same street.

And it is scary.

I saw a news show about the pets that are being left in the foreclosed houses.
They showed a real estate agent going into houses where people leave their furniture, kitchen equipment, and their pets.
The show I saw focused on Ohio, but it looks like it is happening everywhere.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/IndustryInfo/story?id=4211173

And even if you have your house paid off, which is great, things still happen.
Two years ago my great aunt died.
The farm, which had been in the family for over 100 years, and all the furnishings in the house and the house itself went to pay her medical and care expenses. Auctioned.
I wanted to go to the auction, but it happened before I even knew...
All my dad got was a cardboard box with some photographs.
His grandmother was an artist; he got one painting that had been badly damaged.
The rest of her paintings were auctioned.
And it is not like the paintings were valuable to anyone but family.

I know that my great aunt intended for the farm to go to my dad.
Things don't always happen like they should.

I'm just saying that even though a person may have lived frugally and carefully, it all may go anyway.
 
You have the right attitude. Values do come back. While it's depressing to owe more than the house is worth, you didn't do anything wrong, as you say, and this will be a temporary situation. It might take a few years, unfortunately.

Unfortunately, in some areas I think it will take far more than a few years for home values to come back. I think a decade is more like it....
 
I think the lesson in this housing crisis is that it's a really good idea to buy LESS house than you can afford, and re-mortgage only to get lower interest rates. It seems like most of the stories I hear like this are from people who either bought more house than they could afford (living on the edge) or refinanced to get cash for other expenditures like high credit card bills (also living on the edge). I think I benefited from having a dad that was out of work a few times, because it was really important to me that our mortgage be manageable if something happened and we only had one of our incomes. The irony of it all is that with home prices so depressed, more and more young couples will get into more house than they can afford now, so I don't see an end in sight. And as an aside, I sure wish the public schools took teaching personal finance as seriously as they take teaching algebra (I mean, who uses algebra after high school anyway?:))!

This is what I've done in my two home purchases.

Well, the first home wasn't less than I could afford, it was exactly what I could afford! I was 25, single, with no dependants so I could afford a bit more risk. 3% down on a condo purchased at $108k, the montly payment (with taxes, homeowners, PMI and assesment) was less than what I could rent a comparable apartment for (and an apartment wouldn't have had an attached garage!). I sold it in 4 year for nearly a 50% profit!

Then DH (I'd since met and gotten engaged to my now DH)and I rolled that into a 20% down payment on a small (1300 sqft) single family home. If we both lost our jobs tomorrow and could only work 40 hours a week at McD's we could afford the house. We'd have to stop payments on our truck and CC's, but we could do it, and if we both got 2nd part time jobs we'd even be able to make the truck payment, at least long enough to sell it and get out of the loan. We'd be able to hang on long enough to get back on our feet and catch up. Our credit would be trashed but we'd eventually come through to the other side, either by being able to sell the house once the market comes back and clear our debts, or by paying it all off bit-by-bit the hard way.

But that's the worst case senario, the odds of both of us losing our jobs at the same time is astronomical, we are in two unrelated fields in an area with a very diverse economy. One of us getting laid off? Sure, but not both. The way things are set up we'd be able to keep going and pay everyone. We'd be eating a lot of Ramen and hot dogs, but we'd make it until the layed off spouse found decent work again. And in two years the truck is paid off, and in three the CC's should be gone, so we'll be in an even better situation then. In a few years if a job loss happens, while it would be hard it wouldn't be a disaster, not even close.

I understand those that don't understand mortgages or CC terms, some things that are easy for one person to "get" is imposible for the next, it's nothing to do with inteligence, just the way our individual brains are "wired". My DH still doesn't get why when I pay off the CC due at the end of this month why it still has a balance. I've explained I'm paying off last months purchases and this month's will be billed next month, but he doesn't get it. But he's just as smart as I am, just in a different way (he could sit there and tell me how the space shuttle works while I look at him with a blank stare, for example!).

But I'll never understand those that don't stop and figure out what they can afford, and then think about what will happen if their income drops. What actions will they need to take, what bills they'll need to let (possibly) slide and which ones MUST be paid, what help may be available from family in a short term emergency, at what point they'd have to sell assets (homes, cars, etc) and start over with an apartment and a job they can walk to. You may not understand the banking industry but everyone should understand they need a plan "B" if it all falls apart.
 
I think the lesson in this housing crisis is that it's a really good idea to buy LESS house than you can afford, and re-mortgage only to get lower interest rates. It seems like most of the stories I hear like this are from people who either bought more house than they could afford (living on the edge) or refinanced to get cash for other expenditures like high credit card bills (also living on the edge). I think I benefited from having a dad that was out of work a few times, because it was really important to me that our mortgage be manageable if something happened and we only had one of our incomes. The irony of it all is that with home prices so depressed, more and more young couples will get into more house than they can afford now, so I don't see an end in sight. And as an aside, I sure wish the public schools took teaching personal finance as seriously as they take teaching algebra (I mean, who uses algebra after high school anyway?:))!

I totally agree. Although, I will say that we've made a decision not to refinance at this time for any reason. We can pay our mortgage right now & I'm worried if we did decide to refinance we'd end up with an adjustable rate mortgage. Plus, we'll probably sell this house in 3-5 years & I want to build as much equity in it as possible. Both of us have incredibly stable jobs & recent positive developments in both our jobs lead us to believe that we're not going to be laid off so we feel pretty safe right now.
I will say, however, that I am very, very glad that we under-bought & went for a not-new house as opposed to a brand-new McMansion. We may not have a lot of house but we can afford what we've got.
 

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