Hanging up my running shoes-Update on ZellyB

[ZellyB]

HUGE congratulations to you for that awesome race!! It's been so inspiring to see your amazing training cycle and it's so fun to see how it paid off!!

Thank you!!

I hope it cools down for you soon! My long run the other night was in the low 60's/high 50's and I felt like a new woman.

Also, that sloth is a perfect reenactment of me today.

Please, please, please fall, come back!

Glad you took the time to relax, and that your hamstring is feeling better! I feel like we got a little tease of the fall and now it has retreated. COME BACK, FALL! I MISS YOU!

It's cool and rainy here today, but starting tomorrow, it climbs back into the 80s.

 

[ZellyB]

What to do? What to do?

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Now that the marathon is looming close and Dopey not far beyond that, I've started to debate what kind of goals I want to set next. Dopey has been this big goal out there for awhile and I'm really excited to be finally doing that, but I have started to debate what is the NEXT thing to work toward. Because I have a strong need to have some kind of goal in front of me.

I worry if I don't have that, I will ultimately just stop running.

So, this morning while running, I was debating with Chris what I want to focus on next.

One possibility is one that quite recently I would have told you I NEVER wanted to do. Namely, run an ultra event. Specifically, a 50K.

But, now I'm all like

I'm looking at it like this. I'll be running Dopey 48.6 miles over 4 days and just being able to do that probably has my training level pretty close to what is necessary to complete a 50K. It's been a strong training season and I'm healthy and running strong, so it seems if I'm ever going to be positioned to do a 50K, now is the time. There's a local one here that is on an easy rail trail that is well supported, but it's not until April, so that's a long time to maintain my distance fitness. I've looked for some others nearby in February, but they appear to mostly be more technical trail runs, which I really don't want to do. So...hmmm...

My other goal that I'm considering is to forget the longer distances and focus on speed improvement for the half marathon. A woman in my running group who is around my age just managed a sub 2:00 half on the Mo' Cowbell course I just ran. Which has me now thinking, could I potentially get to a sub-2 half?

But, I could potentially still do the 50K and THEN transition to speeding up for a half.

And, of course, the 50K is all contingent on whether or not I survive the inevitable post-marathon thoughts of

And then there's always thoughts of things like getting into a tri sprint or Ragnar or something like that. So, what would YOU do if you were me?

 

[FredtheDuck]

Disclaimer: My experience is limited to being both not super speedy and not running more than a half.

BUT, if I had your skills and your training, I'd START with the 50k. At 31 miles, it isn't a huge leap from the marathon distance you're already planning on doing, and with the notion of cumulative fatigue that you'll be building over the Dopey training cycle and the races themselves, I feel like a 50k isn't a huge leap. Yes, you'd have to maintain your fitness (or at least rebound from a break quickly), but I think with a big "I said I'd never do this but I changed my mind" goal, you'd get back in to it quickly.

THEN I'd start working on speed. For me personally, speed is something that takes a lot of work and effort and time to get to. It may take you more than a cycle to sub-2. It may not. But I'd get the 50k checked off because I agree that you're probably going to be in good shape for it with all your Dopey training, then I'd start thinking through what may be a longer and more complicated approach.

That is, if I had the skills/abilities to do either/both.

 

[ZellyB]

Disclaimer: My experience is limited to being both not super speedy and not running more than a half.

BUT, if I had your skills and your training, I'd START with the 50k. At 31 miles, it isn't a huge leap from the marathon distance you're already planning on doing, and with the notion of cumulative fatigue that you'll be building over the Dopey training cycle and the races themselves, I feel like a 50k isn't a huge leap. Yes, you'd have to maintain your fitness (or at least rebound from a break quickly), but I think with a big "I said I'd never do this but I changed my mind" goal, you'd get back in to it quickly.

THEN I'd start working on speed. For me personally, speed is something that takes a lot of work and effort and time to get to. It may take you more than a cycle to sub-2. It may not. But I'd get the 50k checked off because I agree that you're probably going to be in good shape for it with all your Dopey training, then I'd start thinking through what may be a longer and more complicated approach.

That is, if I had the skills/abilities to do either/both.

Yes, exactly how I'm thinking (currently - *all musings are subject to change). I absolutely think it would take me an extended amount of time to get sub-2, if it's even possible. If I abandon Galloway and go to strictly running, maybe it's more of a possibility, but I really worry about the wear and tear on my body without the walk breaks.

And, now of course, @DopeyBadger has me contemplating Chicago in 2018.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I'm looking at it like this. I'll be running Dopey 48.6 miles over 4 days and just being able to do that probably has my training level pretty close to what is necessary to complete a 50K. It's been a strong training season and I'm healthy and running strong, so it seems if I'm ever going to be positioned to do a 50K, now is the time. There's a local one here that is on an easy rail trail that is well supported, but it's not until April, so that's a long time to maintain my distance fitness. I've looked for some others nearby in February, but they appear to mostly be more technical trail runs, which I really don't want to do. So...hmmm...

Aerobically speaking there isn't really a difference between the marathon and 50k. At that point it's about proper pacing and time on feet. I strongly believe if you can complete a marathon, then you can complete a 50k.

My other goal that I'm considering is to forget the longer distances and focus on speed improvement for the half marathon. A woman in my running group who is around my age just managed a sub 2:00 half on the Mo' Cowbell course I just ran. Which has me now thinking, could I potentially get to a sub-2 half?

That depends on where your 5k/10k fitness is right now. Dependent on that I could give you a reasonable estimate on when a sub-2 could happen (based on a normal improvement trajectory). I think based on your track work this past cycle you might have some faster 5k/10k times in your future.

 

[ZellyB]

Aerobically speaking there isn't really a difference between the marathon and 50k. At that point it's about proper pacing and time on feet. I strongly believe if you can complete a marathon, then you can complete a 50k.

I think I believe this too.

That depends on where your 5k/10k fitness is right now. Dependent on that I could give you a reasonable estimate on when a sub-2 could happen (based on a normal improvement trajectory). I think based on your track work this past cycle you might have some faster 5k/10k times in your future.

I don't even know what my 5K/10K fitness is. I haven't raced a 5K in probably 4 years and I think the last 10K I raced was 3 years ago. If I were to do the 50K, I could look for some 5k/10k races to attempt early this spring and build from there, I suppose.

So, possible to work on both speed and maintaining my endurance for a 50K simultaneously or are the two objectives too different in approach?

 

[DopeyBadger]

So, possible to work on both speed and maintaining my endurance for a 50K simultaneously or are the two objectives too different in approach?

Yes, dependent on the number of days per week and time allotted on those days for training it's possible. Because you're looking for HM speed which is not all that different from M and 50k speed. If you wanted to get faster at 5k/10k, then that would likely be tougher while simultaneously training for a 50k. Something like the following for a HM improvement.

Hard Workouts
1) Long Run (for endurance)
2) HM Tempo (for HM specific work)
3) 5k, 10k, CV, or LT pacing (for speed work)

You get #1 for doing 3 days per week.
You get #1 and 2 for doing 4 days per week.
You get #1, 2 and 3 if doing 5 days per week with enough time allotted.
You get #1, 2 and 3 if doing 6 days per week.

The key is balancing the hard and easy. So you need enough easy to balance out those hard workouts. Now if you were doing 50k OR HM sub-2, then you could do 2 OR 3 (with two likely changing to a M Tempo type workout instead). But then you'd only get one goal checked off. But moving to 5 or 6 days definitely can increase the wear and tear on the body if you don't listen to the signals it's giving you. But like I've said before, I've actually found running to be easier since I moved from 3 days per week to 6 days per week (also simultaneously slowed WAY down on the majority of training).

And I'm not completely sure this needs to be co-dependent on the choice to do run/walk vs continuous run. No reason trying to continue to do run/walk wouldn't jive with trying to go sub-2 (dependent on where speed is currently). Especially since the #3 type workouts would already be similar to what you do for run/walk. Might be a different set of intervals and such, but run/walk is just really extended speed work. I can't say for sure completely yet as I'm trying to see how my theories mesh with run/walk based on the experience of some of the other runners on here.

 

[sourire]

You get #1 for doing 3 days per week.
You get #1 and 2 for doing 4 days per week.
You get #1, 2 and 3 if doing 5 days per week with enough time allotted.
You get #1, 2 and 3 if doing 6 days per week.

This is very helpful. Thank you for this post.

Zelly, I am not sure I have an opinion on what I'd sign up for next, but I totally hear you on looking ahead. I am worried that I'll just lay on my couch after the marathon in January, so I'm trying to look beyond that and have some races/goals on my radar. I know it's going to be an awesome adventure for you, no matter what you decide.

 

[GollyGadget]

Ahhh, I had these same 50k thoughts a few months ago. What's 5 extra miles after all?

 

[disneydaydreamer33]

I could see you completing both your 50K goal and a sub 2 hour half! I would be interested in the calculations that @DopeyBadger gives you on a predicted time table for the sub 2 hour. And I totally concur that having a next goal on the horizon after your current goal is helpful! I'm sure there's a bit of a natural let down after completing Dopey, but having your next goal ready to go would help with that.

 

[FFigawi]

And then there's always thoughts of things like getting into a tri sprint or Ragnar or something like that. So, what would YOU do if you were me?

I'd do them all! Tri training is great for increasing your fitness without having to run all the time. I'd train for the 50k and the tri first with the half to follow.

 

[CheapRunnerMike]

So, what would YOU do if you were me?​

​

​

I'd do them all! Tri training is great for increasing your fitness without having to run all the time. I'd train for the 50k and the tri first with the half to follow.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[roxymama]

First thing....It is very dangerous to ask this board "what would you do if you were me." That might be the biggest lesson I've learned so far with running.

Secondly...I think you will probably end up doing a 50k on marathon day anyways if you happen to wander into the parks that day because it's not that hard to cover 5 extra miles when in the hunt for the perfect medal pictures, amirite? Also, I am scared to tell you to do it for fear of it coming back to bite me if anyone ever tells me to do it.

Thirdly...OMG COME TO CHICAGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (that's an open invite for anytime)

Fourthly...I'm cautiously scared of the fact that I'm diving into a Tri next year (yes, I meant that as a swimming pun) so if you are training for one too I won't feel as scared.

Fifthly...I feel like October round here has become the new January. All of us with our New Years Resolutions and it's not even Halloween yet!!!

 

[Chris-Mo]

I am saying if you are that close to a 50K come on and let's do a 50 miler!! Just 19 miles more!

 

[Ariel484]

I am saying if you are that close to a 50K come on and let's do a 50 miler!! Just 19 miles more!

You fit in well around here. #peerpressure

 

[roxymama]

I am saying if you are that close to a 50K come on and let's do a 50 miler!! Just 19 miles more!

This is pretty much what happens to me when I order a pizza that is too large. "Well I've come this far...."

 

[ZellyB]

Yes, dependent on the number of days per week and time allotted on those days for training it's possible. Because you're looking for HM speed which is not all that different from M and 50k speed. If you wanted to get faster at 5k/10k, then that would likely be tougher while simultaneously training for a 50k. Something like the following for a HM improvement.

Hard Workouts
1) Long Run (for endurance)
2) HM Tempo (for HM specific work)
3) 5k, 10k, CV, or LT pacing (for speed work)

You get #1 for doing 3 days per week.
You get #1 and 2 for doing 4 days per week.
You get #1, 2 and 3 if doing 5 days per week with enough time allotted.
You get #1, 2 and 3 if doing 6 days per week.

The key is balancing the hard and easy. So you need enough easy to balance out those hard workouts. Now if you were doing 50k OR HM sub-2, then you could do 2 OR 3 (with two likely changing to a M Tempo type workout instead). But then you'd only get one goal checked off. But moving to 5 or 6 days definitely can increase the wear and tear on the body if you don't listen to the signals it's giving you. But like I've said before, I've actually found running to be easier since I moved from 3 days per week to 6 days per week (also simultaneously slowed WAY down on the majority of training).

And I'm not completely sure this needs to be co-dependent on the choice to do run/walk vs continuous run. No reason trying to continue to do run/walk wouldn't jive with trying to go sub-2 (dependent on where speed is currently). Especially since the #3 type workouts would already be similar to what you do for run/walk. Might be a different set of intervals and such, but run/walk is just really extended speed work. I can't say for sure completely yet as I'm trying to see how my theories mesh with run/walk based on the experience of some of the other runners on here.

OK. This helps. And maybe I can be another guinea pig for you on your theories and run/walk. After January that is.

This is very helpful. Thank you for this post.

Zelly, I am not sure I have an opinion on what I'd sign up for next, but I totally hear you on looking ahead. I am worried that I'll just lay on my couch after the marathon in January, so I'm trying to look beyond that and have some races/goals on my radar. I know it's going to be an awesome adventure for you, no matter what you decide.

I still have this fear that I'm just going to stop running one of these days if I don't have some goal in front of me.

Ahhh, I had these same 50k thoughts a few months ago. What's 5 extra miles after all?

And this is really the madness of running right? What's 5 more miles? Early in my running days, the thought of 5 miles ALONE was scary, now I'm all like, eh, why not?

I could see you completing both your 50K goal and a sub 2 hour half! I would be interested in the calculations that @DopeyBadger gives you on a predicted time table for the sub 2 hour. And I totally concur that having a next goal on the horizon after your current goal is helpful! I'm sure there's a bit of a natural let down after completing Dopey, but having your next goal ready to go would help with that.

I'm curious what he'd come up with as well. We've been doing roughly the same thing with training for so long, I'm wanting to mix things up a bit.

I'd do them all! Tri training is great for increasing your fitness without having to run all the time. I'd train for the 50k and the tri first with the half to follow.

My thoughts exactly.

This does not surprise me from either of you.

First thing....It is very dangerous to ask this board "what would you do if you were me." That might be the biggest lesson I've learned so far with running.

You are so right. I should know better!

Secondly...I think you will probably end up doing a 50k on marathon day anyways if you happen to wander into the parks that day because it's not that hard to cover 5 extra miles when in the hunt for the perfect medal pictures, amirite? Also, I am scared to tell you to do it for fear of it coming back to bite me if anyone ever tells me to do it.

Right again on the unofficial 50K on marathon day at Disney. I should just make myself a medal and call it good.

Thirdly...OMG COME TO CHICAGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (that's an open invite for anytime)

@Chris-Mo and I discussed this morning. I think we're going to go for it!

Fourthly...I'm cautiously scared of the fact that I'm diving into a Tri next year (yes, I meant that as a swimming pun) so if you are training for one too I won't feel as scared.

Good point. We can encourage each other together.

Fifthly...I feel like October round here has become the new January. All of us with our New Years Resolutions and it's not even Halloween yet!!!

This is so true! Fall Runner's Madness. It's totally a thing!!!

I am saying if you are that close to a 50K come on and let's do a 50 miler!! Just 19 miles more!

No. A HARD NO!

You fit in well around here. #peerpressure

We should make a new term #DisPressure

This is pretty much what happens to me when I order a pizza that is too large. "Well I've come this far...."

 

[roxymama]

Me and @ZellyB in Chicago being like

 

[ZellyB]

Me and @ZellyB in Chicago being like

Do you think that dress would work okay with running shoes? Cause I could work that fringe.

 

[roxymama]

Do you think that dress would work okay with running shoes? Cause I could work that fringe.