H1N1 vaccine - has your child gotten it yet?

[taximomfor4]

Not flaming, but WHy are you on antibiotics with cold/flu symptoms? They are both viruses, which antibiotics do not work against. The only treatment for flu symptoms are Tamiflu and another inhaled medication which can reduce the severity of the flu if taken in the frist 48 hours of the onset of symptoms.

I was put on because my chest tightness began over 2 weeks ago (possibly allergies), last weekend I got flu/cold symptoms, and then 5 days later THAT suddenly changed into a productive cough (foul-tasting, ewwww) with fever. Oh, and diminished lung sounds, wheezing, and slightly lowered pulse ox. I had similar ocurrence in May. They are thinking I may be developing viral-induced asthma. Once that crud gets trapped by the restricted airways, it festers and a bacterial infection results.

As for DH, I am sure it looked like the cold he had early this week led to a secondary infection in his bronchial tubes, since he went from upper respiratory symptoms to wheezing in his upper chest on day 6.

For myself, I could breathe a TON easier the day after taking the 1st dose of the antibiotic. Like night and day. Only bad part is, I can now also cough more effectively which is driving me NUTS.

 

[taximomfor4]

I can answer this since I will also be requesting antibiotics when/if we have flu-like illness. Many people who die or who have a really tough time with H1N1 do so due to secondary bacterial infections. Antibiotics can head off this problem. So you will still have swine flu, but the idea is to prevent bacteria (strep, Mersa...)from coming in and taking advantage of your weakened immune system.

Actually, like 67% of people dying, etc from H1N1 did NOT have any secondary infection. Which is why we were sick for quite a while before going in.

 

[MagicKingdom05]

"thimerosal is a safe, effective preservative."

Thimerosal is about 50% mercury. Whether it is safe or not is debatable, but I respect your opinion and your decision to choose to vaccinate.

"thimerosal is a preservative used in many cosmetics and over the counter products that need to have a preservative, like eye drops and nasal sprays."

I just feel that it is different when you are injecting it into children's bodies. Or even pregnant woman, for that matter, because the mercury does transfer to the baby in vitro.

Actually the one for pregnant women doesn't have the preservative in it, which is the reason my pregnant wife is having such a hard time getting it. There is a very very limited supply of non preservative ones, and a letter from the OB is needed to get it. Luckily my wife found a place today where she can go on Monday and get it.

 

[taximomfor4]

-----------------------------

I would consider "living in the same household" close - thus some family members should not receive the mist..

LOL. I was replying to someone else, who was concerned about kids at school who could not get FluMist, being around the rest of the kids who did. Probably something only each individual's dr can answer. The risk is almost negligible there, to almost everyone.

 

[LisaR]

Actually, like 67% of people dying, etc from H1N1 did NOT have any secondary infection. Which is why we were sick for quite a while before going in.

Wow! I missed that. I haven't seen a recent statistic but the last time I saw something it was much higher for those that had died from secondary infections. Either the tides have turned or I saw misleading data to begin with.

 

[taximomfor4]

Wow! I missed that. I haven't seen a recent statistic but the last time I saw something it was much higher for those that had died from secondary infections. Either the tides have turned or I saw misleading data to begin with.

'

I didn't see my 67% quote, but did the math from the stat I DID see, that only 33% HAD secondary infections. It seems to be creeping out, that VIRAL pneumonia is as (or MORE????) likely to develop than bacterial.

Well, I could be wrong. Everything I am coming across right now are saying the OPPOSITE of what I saw a month or so ago. Hmmmm.

I did find THIS: long and a LOT to sift through. But it does state bacterial pneumonia (the only bacterial infection of note) in 32%. Wasn't the study I'd seen previously, but very similar in findings

 

[Pennykay]

Actually the one for pregnant women doesn't have the preservative in it, which is the reason my pregnant wife is having such a hard time getting it. There is a very very limited supply of non preservative ones, and a letter from the OB is needed to get it. Luckily my wife found a place today where she can go on Monday and get it.

They are recommending the pregnant woman get it even if it has thimerosal in it, that is why you must ask before you get the shot if it is a single dose thimerosal free shot. It is good that your wife found a thimerosal free version. I thought they were not even released yet. What state are you in?

 

[MagicKingdom05]

They are recommending the pregnant woman get it even if it has thimerosal in it, that is why you must ask before you get the shot if it is a single dose thimerosal free shot. It is good that your wife found a thimerosal free version. I thought they were not even released yet. What state are you in?

Illinois

 

[Pennykay]

Illinois

Thanks!

 

[Tinijocaro]

'

I didn't see my 67% quote, but did the math from the stat I DID see, that only 33% HAD secondary infections. It seems to be creeping out, that VIRAL pneumonia is as (or MORE????) likely to develop than bacterial.

Well, I could be wrong. Everything I am coming across right now are saying the OPPOSITE of what I saw a month or so ago. Hmmmm.

I did find THIS: long and a LOT to sift through. But it does state bacterial pneumonia (the only bacterial infection of note) in 32%. Wasn't the study I'd seen previously, but very similar in findings

For me, 33% is high enough to warrant taking an antibiotic as a precaution.

 

[Pennykay]

I found this link on another sight. Very interesting! It shows what clinical trials are going on for H1N1. As you can see, they are doing trials on vaccines with adjuvants.

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00963157?term=h1n1&rank=3

 

[Geoff_M]

Thimerosal is about 50% mercury. Whether it is safe or not is debatable,...

Using that same logic, table salt is about 60% toxic chlorine (by weight). It's safety is only "debatable" in the sense that nothing administered to the human body can ever be proven safe beyond a shadow of a doubt even though the scales containing the mountains of exhaustive data overwhelmingly tilts in that direction.

 

[taximomfor4]

For me, 33% is high enough to warrant taking an antibiotic as a precaution.

I guess it depends. I loved microbiology, but didn't continue classes toward it and pharmaceuticals as a career. But I'd be worried that if you start an antibiotic, before bacteria has colonized, some bacteria might colonize ANYWAY, and being able to do that would make them RESISTANT to your antibiotic.

If only 1/3 of the people critically ill had secondary infections, it would have to be exponentially less of a percentage of the general public, no? That article was a study just done on the vented patients in the study.

Not saying that the less ill people won't get secondary infections too (look at me, for instance). Just that not waiting until there is actually bacteria there COULD be harmful, no?

Hopefully someone who is an expert in this stuff can chime in.

ETA: Found this: Three other studies found that taking antibiotics for colds or the flu to prevent secondary infections had no effect on those infections, Dr. Gonzales said. It was in THIS article: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/15/health/policy/15FLU.html

 

[Pennykay]

Using that same logic, table salt is about 60% toxic chlorine (by weight). It's safety is only "debatable" in the sense that nothing administered to the human body can ever be proven safe beyond a shadow of a doubt even though the scales containing the mountains of exhaustive data overwhelmingly tilts in that direction.

We don't inject table salt into our children. Mercury is proven to be harmful to humans.

 

[Geoff_M]

We don't inject table salt into our children. Mercury is proven to be harmful to humans.

So it's your assertion then that none of the salt that you consume makes it into your body tissue? It's complete nonsense to try and scare people with an element in a compound instead of looking at the molecule. Take nitrogen and carbon. Our bodies contain lots of both elements and people don't go "oooh, scary!" at their names, but when you take one atom of each and combine them... you get something known as "cyanide".

You see this same sort of tatic used by the people against the artifical sweetner Splenda. They argue that it's unsafe because it's just "chlorinated sugar!"

 

[Pennykay]

First of all, I am not trying to scare anyone. I am just another Mom out here trying to do what is best for her children and her family. Mercury being safe is not just cut and dry. They warn pregnant woman against eating too much tuna while pregnant and there is not much mercury in tuna either. We all have to do our own research and decide what is right for our own families. There is mercury in the flu shot. If you research it and decide that you feel it is safe in your opinion, then good for you. If I research it and find that it is not safe in my opinion, then good for me. We all get to make our own choices.

 

[luvwinnie]

Although I do want the vaccine, I would like to find a thimerasol free version. We even get a thimerasol free rabies vaccine for our dog.

 

[denisenh]

thimerosal is a safe, effective preservative. this/a preservative is not needed in single dose vaccines. it is used in multidose vials to prevent the growth of fungi and bacteria which may be introduced once the multi dose vial is opened.

in an effort to find the dangers of thimerosal through my own research, i have actually found that it is a non issue for most people/children.
thimerosal is a preservative used in many cosmetics and over the counter products that need to have a preservative, like eye drops and nasal sprays.

i wouldn't go out of my way to soak myself in thimerosal but for crying out loud, i wouldn't shun an influenza vaccine with trace amounts of it either.

i am going to allow my less than 18 year old kids to have the "with preservative" influenza vaccine because of the shortage of preservative free single dose version aka pediatric over 36 months of age vaccine.

"thimerosal is a safe, effective preservative."

Thimerosal is about 50% mercury. Whether it is safe or not is debatable, but I respect your opinion and your decision to choose to vaccinate.

"thimerosal is a preservative used in many cosmetics and over the counter products that need to have a preservative, like eye drops and nasal sprays."

I just feel that it is different when you are injecting it into children's bodies. Or even pregnant woman, for that matter, because the mercury does transfer to the baby in vitro.

They are recommending the pregnant woman get it even if it has thimerosal in it, that is why you must ask before you get the shot if it is a single dose thimerosal free shot. It is good that your wife found a thimerosal free version. I thought they were not even released yet. What state are you in?

First of all, I am not trying to scare anyone. I am just another Mom out here trying to do what is best for her children and her family. Mercury being safe is not just cut and dry. They warn pregnant woman against eating too much tuna while pregnant and there is not much mercury in tuna either. We all have to do our own research and decide what is right for our own families. There is mercury in the flu shot. If you research it and decide that you feel it is safe in your opinion, then good for you. If I research it and find that it is not safe in my opinion, then good for me. We all get to make our own choices.

I agree with pennykay on most points (you sound like an awesome mom!) ...if i were pregnant i would prefer a thimerosal free vaccine. I would do this for my unborn child as i consider this the start point of that child's vaccines. The first 5 or so years worth of childhood immunizations I would want thimerosal free as well. This is from a "just in case" perspective which I have no real rational for other that there are so many.

But once the child is into the stage of boosters and other vaccines after researching thimerosal and understanding the differences in various types of mercury and how they are distributed, absorbed, metabolized and excreted i would feel 100% confident that my child would not suffer ill effects with trace amounts being absorbed.

As far as injecting substances versus other points of entry (topical application, swallowed, inhaled, or what have you) I wouldn't get too comfy with that as a point of differentiation between toxins. All points of entry matter when you come right down to it.

 

[C.Ann]

LOL. I was replying to someone else, who was concerned about kids at school who could not get FluMist, being around the rest of the kids who did. Probably something only each individual's dr can answer. The risk is almost negligible there, to almost everyone.

No problem..

Last night DD, her DH, and I were discussing the H1N1 vaccine - again.. DD and DGD are totally okay with it - DD's DH "was", but then he was beginning to waffle a bit again - a little worried about this vaccine and possible problems.. (He had recently been talking to his cousin - the mom of a 1 yr. old - who is against ALL vaccinations - and will only get those that are required by law - IF she decides to send her DD to school rather than homeschool her..) We then discussed the vaccinations that babies and children get - for things that are really far less serious - and I closed the discussion with some food for thought:

Back when I was little (I'm 60 now), my parents didn't want us to get polio shots - even though there was a huge outbreak at the time.. Then something horrific happened - which altered their thinking drastically.. My 13 year old sister was suddenly stricken with polio, nearly died, spent 9 months in a specialized hospital for polio patients, had to be tutored at home for a year, while undergoing weekly physical therapy, and ended up with permanent damage to her arms and legs.. (She is in her late 60's now and suffers from post-polio syndrome..)

I guess the moral of the story is, it never happens to "you", until it does happen to you..

In the end he decided that he would rather chance the possibility of some kind of side effects from the vaccine (even if they were long term) as opposed to the possibility of death.. While the odds of death may not be extremely high, it's enough of a risk that he would rather she be vaccinated than risk losing their only child..

It's a typical "rock and a hard place" scenario that many, may people are struggling with.. It's a very personal decision - and one that most people are not taking lightly..

Of course in order for her (or any of us) to actually get the vaccination, it needs to be readily available in our area - which it's not.. Very, very frustrating..

 

[teacups]

If we didnt get sick (I mean SICK!!!!) from the shots I think we'd be getting this shot.