Go California Supreme Court!!!

How long do you think we'll have to wait for the actual decision?
 
How long do you think we'll have to wait for the actual decision?

I believe the article said that they will hear 4 hours of arguments, then they have 90 days to render a decision. Let's hope it's a good one!

Correction: They will hear "...three hours of arguments on Thursday, and then have 90 days to issue an opinion." I guess at that point it still won't be an official decision.

I can't imagine that they would decide any other way but in our favor. This is the same court who made the decision last year to overturn a law banning same sex marriage, saying that the ban was unconstitutional. I guess we'll watch and wait hopefully. California really is a trend-setter when it comes to these issues. This one decision could be the push we need.
 

Keeping my fingers crossed and sending pixie dust to CA's Supreme Court...

pixiedust: pixiedust: pixiedust: pixiedust: pixiedust: pixiedust: pixiedust: pixiedust: pixiedust: pixiedust: pixiedust:

Do the right thing!!!
 
I believe the article said that they will hear 4 hours of arguments, then they have 90 days to render a decision. Let's hope it's a good one!

Correction: They will hear "...three hours of arguments on Thursday, and then have 90 days to issue an opinion." I guess at that point it still won't be an official decision.

I can't imagine that they would decide any other way but in our favor. This is the same court who made the decision last year to overturn a law banning same sex marriage, saying that the ban was unconstitutional. I guess we'll watch and wait hopefully. California really is a trend-setter when it comes to these issues. This one decision could be the push we need.

I agree, I think they will use the same basic reasoning they used before. Then we will have to hope that as goes CA, so goes the nation.
 
I hope like hell they get it right and get rid of Prop Hate. There is no reason in the world for people who love each other not to get married. It's a basic human right as far as I'm concerned. :rainbow:
 
I agree, I think they will use the same basic reasoning they used before. Then we will have to hope that as goes CA, so goes the nation.
But they weren't previously judging the constitutionality of Prop 8, but (I thought) of the existing marriage law.

This is a different case where they'll be judging whether Prop 8 is the type of constitutional change that can be made by referundum.

PS. Well, I take it back.

"Gay marriage proponents, including former Governor and current California Attorney General Jerry Brown, argue that the right to marry is part of the "inalienable right" to liberty, so the state Supreme Court must strike down an amendment to the constitution limiting it."

So it looks like they are also going to argue that Prop 8 conflicts with the inalienable right clause.
 
I was struck by this sentence from the article:

Only a handful of countries, mostly European nations, allow gay marriage.

Yeah -- all of the PROGRESSIVE countries already allow gay marriage. Shall we examine the freaking third-world nations who harbor, if not *celebrate*, discrimination and hate??? And worse, count ourselves among them? I was a little annoyed with the author for not making that obvious observation. "Only a handful" indeed.
 
There's some things that should be mentioned about American law - specifically as it relates to how persons identifying as a group petition the government.

We live in a society where the majority rules, but the minority is afforded certain rights. The civil rights era of the mid-20th century was all about recognizing these rights (as they emanate from the Constitution). Certain groups in particular are afforded closer interest by the government due to historical injustice, specifically race, religion, national origin, and sex. These four groups are known as SUSPECT CLASSES. Such groups are afforded different levels of judicial scrutiny under our system of law:

STRICT SCRUTINY: The highest (and most rigorous) level of judicial review, it is employed in cases where the law in question involves a matter of RACE, RELIGION, or NATIONAL ORIGIN.

Whenever a law must pass strict scrutiny, a three-pronged test is administered to the law:

1.) The law must serve a COMPELLING GOVERNMENTAL INTEREST, along the lines of national security, among other reasons.

2.) The law must be NARROWLY TAILORED to achieve that governmental interest. In other words, the law must include wording that is neither too vague or over-encompassing.

3.) The law must use the LEAST RESTRICTIVE MEANS possible to achieve the governmental interest. So, a law can't set out to do one thing and, oh by the way, let's mandate a ban on cake while we're at it.

So, a law is unconstitutional if the court rules that it is "narrowly tailored" to serve a "compelling governmental interest". Questions involving race and national origin are considered "compelling".

INTERMEDIATE SCRUTINY: The middle level of scrutiny applied by courts in matters of judicial review, it is employed in cases where the law in question involves a matter of SEX (gender), such as sexual discrimination.

A law can be said to pass intermediate scrutiny if it involves IMPORTANT GOVERNMENTAL INTERESTS and achieves these interests by SUBSTANTIALLY RELATED MEANS.

RATIONAL-BASIS TEST: The default level of scrutiny used in cases where action by a law must be merely RATIONALLY RELATED to advance a LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENTAL INTEREST.

For example, the government may create a bank because such a creation is a reasonable way to regulate commerce. The government need only make ONE argument rationally-related to its purpose to pass this standard.

THIS IS WHERE LGBT PERSONS RESIDE - in the rational basis realm.

So, in summary, gay/lesbian persons are NOT considered a suspect class in the eyes of American jurisprudence, therefore cases involving claims by gays and lesbians aren't subjected to the same judicial standards as cases brought by African-Americans, religious groups, citizens of foreign origin, or men/women qua men/women.

All that a law must say is that it is a legitimate governmental interest to define marriage as the union between a man and a woman because such marriages are traditional and foster two-parent households (which is conducive to good child-rearing), according the the prevailing argumentation.

What the California Supreme Court SHOULD do is to recognize that marriage is a contract between two consenting adults. Marriage is also a right guaranteed by the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution. Therefore the right to marriage extends to all couples, including gays and lesbians.

The Court should ALSO declare Proposition 8, which seeks to amend the Constitution, as null and void. Why? Because the California Constitution itself AND the U.S. Constitution (which extends to the states) guarantee that "life, LIBERTY, and property" cannot be infringed without due process of law. A referendum CANNOT deprive a citizen of BASIC rights EVER, not even a referendum that proposes a Constitutional amendment.

Marriage is a basic right, emanating from the liberty guarantees in the Constitution.

I predict that the Court will overturn the referendum results as an unconstitutional infringement of basic rights.
 
I'm concerned by some of the news reports today:

California Court Weighing Gay Marriage Ban
By JOHN SCHWARTZ and JESSE McKINLEY

SAN FRANCISCO — In a bruising hearing, California’s Supreme Court justices seemed ready on Thursday to uphold the ban on same-sex marriage that was passed by the state’s voters in November.

But the justices, who ruled just last May that same-sex marriage is a constitutional right, also appeared reluctant to undo the 18,000 marriages conducted before the ban was passed.

The court has 90 days to issue a ruling in the case.

Full article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/06/us/06marriage.html?_r=1
 
Yeah -- all of the PROGRESSIVE countries already allow gay marriage. Shall we examine the freaking third-world nations who harbor, if not *celebrate*, discrimination and hate??? And worse, count ourselves among them? I was a little annoyed with the author for not making that obvious observation. "Only a handful" indeed.

I agree with you 100%. That does srtike me as written with an awful bias. I would much prefer to be lumped in to the "handful" of countries which make up most of Western EUrops as well as Canada than to be with the "majority" which includes plenty of palces where racial, ethnic and gender based discrimination is totally legal.

SIGH I hope the ydo the right thing in the end. I'm holding my thumbs here in Germany that Californai will show that some places in the U.S. do take the "All men are created equal" concept to heart (yes, some a few states already have and I am happy to see them lead the way)
 
I was struck by this sentence from the article:



Yeah -- all of the PROGRESSIVE countries already allow gay marriage. Shall we examine the freaking third-world nations who harbor, if not *celebrate*, discrimination and hate??? And worse, count ourselves among them? I was a little annoyed with the author for not making that obvious observation. "Only a handful" indeed.

Yes, that section of the article irritated me as well. The author of the article obviously has a strong opinion on the subject. :rolleyes: You make an excellent point. It's as if the author was referring to those "wacky Europeans", always doing that crazy progressive stuff, instead of pointing out that MOST of the other "civilized" nations recognize same sex marriages. :sad2:
 
Same here, very disheartening. All our hopes pinned on one test is really more than a little scary. :( :(
 














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