Fuse Box/Circuit Breaker Question ....

[DMickey28]

I don't know if anyone can help me but it'sthe DIS and worth a shot!!

We have a circuit breaker in the fuse box labled "Kitchen/Dinning Room". The other day I had the overhead light in the kitchen on and went to turn on the dimmer light over the dinning room table. Both of these switches "Share" and outlet box. The dinning room light came on and then both went off. Neither has worked since. This is on the shared wall between the kitchen and dinning room. On this same wall on the kitchen side there is an outlet that is not working as well as one on the dinning room wall.

I checked the fuse box and it did not pop. I turned it off and back on just to be sure but it still does not work. Now I am thinking these entire fuse/circuit breaker is bad.

Is there anything else it could be??? Since the kitchen light can be turned off and on by a second seperate switch on the otherside of the kitchen, I don't think it's the switch in the wall itself ... that also wouldn't account for the outlets on the same wall being out. ETA: The kitchen light DOES NOT turn on regardless of which switch you us. The second seperate switch DOES NOT turn it on. I wasn't clear on that before.

This whole homeownership sure is a boat load of fun ... we had to replace our circulating pump a few weeks ago on our furnace, our microwave died two weeks ago and needs to be replaced .... my car had some radiator and transmission problems along with some drivetrain problems to the tune of $1300 last week ... JEEZE ...

 

[mickeyboat]

Well, I don't know a lot about electricity, but it seems to me that the light would not turn on by either switch if the circuit was bad because wouldn't both switches be on the same circuit to run one light?

My guess is that there is something wrong with the wiring in the wall after the light, and that wire goes from the light to the other outlets.

Do you know an electrician who might be able to help?

 

[DMickey28]

I just re-read my previous post and it wasn't clear. The kitchen light doesn't turn on regardless of which switch you use.

 

[donaldduck352]

All it takes is one switch or plug-in box to short out and ruin that circuit.If you don't know electric shut off that fuse.You have A live wire in your wall if the breaker didn't shut off that is A fire waiting to happen.

If you do know electric,use A tester in every plug in till you find the next one that don't have power.The one before it will be the fualt.Switch out that outlet.

If youre not that inclined about electric call A pro please....BUT PLEASE SHUT OFF THAT BREAKER TILL ITS TESTED!!!!

 

[Imzadi]

Did you check the lightbulb after you turned the switch or fuse back on? Sometimes a short circuit burns out the bulb. So it could be a a popped circuit as well as the bulb.

And which do you have: a round fuse that you screw in & out or a circuit breaker switch that you flip back & forth. Plus, you do different things to check that they are working properly. Just because you checked them, doesn't mean you did it properly.

 

[kbsparky]

Lighting outlets are not supposed to be connected to the (small appliance) receptacle circuits in a kitchen or a dining room.

But, in many older homes this was not always the case.

There may be another breaker that controls the lights.
Have you tried to switch off all the breakers, and turn them back on?

When was your house built? Are there any Ground-fault devices present in your kitchen, and have you tried to trip/reset those?

-KB
Master Electrician

 

[DMickey28]

donaldduck - The breaker that is labeled Kitchen/Dinning Room that appears to be the one that controls that "area" is the one I should shut off until I figure this out. You have me freaked out!

KB - I have turned all the breakers that are related to the kitchen off and on but no difference. The Ground Fault devices are the ones with the black/red reset buttons? There are two and I did those. They appear to be on different breakers. So the two switches that control the lights in the dinning room and kitchen are not supposed to share a breaker with the two outlets on either side of this shared wall? Interesting ... now how would that work since on the other side of the kitchen there is an outlet with a switch for the dimmers above the sink and an outlet right there that are on the same breaker? This one does have a ground fault in it, does that make a difference?

The house was built in 1972.

We have the flip breakers that you flip back and forth. None where tripped when this happened. I have had breakers trip in my parents house and know what that is like.

Between the kitchen light and the dinning room light there are 10 bulbs. A few had JUST been replaced with the same ones that were on the label. I did take a few out and replace them just to be sure and that wasn't it.

 

[donaldduck352]

donaldduck - The breaker that is labeled Kitchen/Dinning Room that appears to be the one that controls that "area" is the one I should shut off until I figure this out.

Yes,is it A older home like PP asked?Cuase the code calls for all kitchen-water areas be A Ground Fault-GFI-and lights should be A dedicated circuit thats not.

Just reread the post and yes in 72 the codes were alot diff.Turn off that breaker till you can pin-point the problem.

 

[Imzadi]

Lighting outlets are not supposed to be connected to the (small appliance) receptacle circuits in a kitchen or a dining room.

But, in many older homes this was not always the case.

There may be another breaker that controls the lights.
Have you tried to switch off all the breakers, and turn them back on?

Yes. Just because ONE switch or fuse may be labeled as kitchen, doesn't mean it's the only one.

If you have a row of circuit breaker SWITCHES, look down the whole row. Are ANY of them out of alignment. There are actually THREE positions for circuit breakers: ON, OFF, and a middle "TRIPPED" position. Sometimes, it is hard to tell if the breaker is in the Tripped position. It may look like it's in the "On" position.

Also, how long did you leave the breaker switch OFF before flipping it back on? If the Switch was warm or hot, there is often a fail-safe built in, where it will not allow the breaker to be fully turned on. This is so there is no further heat build up in the wall or circuit.

You have to unplug any extra stuff you have plugged into the outlets which may be continually tripping the switch. Turn the breaker fully off. It will NOT reset from the TRIPPED position to the ON position. It has to be turned fully OFF to be reset. Leave it OFF for a minute, then try to flip it back on.

Fuses require looking at them in a certain way to really make sure they are blown. It is not always easy to spot that they have been blown. There is a miniscule filament that can be blown that's hard to see. You also need to replace it with the exact same amperage fuse.

 

[donaldduck352]

Yes. Just because ONE switch or fuse may be labeled as kitchen, doesn't mean its; the only one.

If you have a row of circuit breaker SWITCHES, look down the whole row. Are ANY of them out of alignment. There are actually THREE positions for circuit breakers: ON, OFF, and a middle "TRIPPED" position. Sometimes, it is hard to tell if the breaker is in the Tripped position. It may look like it's in the "On" position.

Also, how long did you leave the breaker switch OFF before flipping it back on? If the Switch was warm or hot, there is often a fail-safe built in, where it will not allow the breaker to be fully turned on. This is so there is no further heat build up in the wall or circuit.

You have to unplug any extra stuff you have unplugged into the outlets which may be continually tripping the switch. Turn the breaker fully off. Leave it OFF for a minute, then try to flip it back on.

Fuses require looking at them in a certain way to really make sure they are blown. It is not always easy to spot that they have been blown. You also need to replace it with the exact same amperage fuse.

Good advise I did'nt state.

 

[kbsparky]

Back in 1972, the 1971 Code should have been in effect. Even then, the outlets in kitchens and dining rooms should have been wired separately from any lighting circuits. That requirement went into effect with the 1965 Code.

Here is something else to check: When you switch off the kitchen/dining circuit, does anything else in those areas go off as well? You may be barking up the wrong tree.

Try switching off and back on all your circuits, since many panel covers are not properly labeled.

 

[Abbie]

KB - I have turned all the breakers that are related to the kitchen off and on but no difference. The Ground Fault devices are the ones with the black/red reset buttons? There are two and I did those. They appear to be on different breakers. So the two switches that control the lights in the dinning room and kitchen are not supposed to share a breaker with the two outlets on either side of this shared wall? Interesting ... now how would that work since on the other side of the kitchen there is an outlet with a switch for the dimmers above the sink and an outlet right there that are on the same breaker? This one does have a ground fault in it, does that make a difference?

I really know nothing about circuitry, so listen to those who do, but the only thing I can suggest is to look for a GFI in a totally different room. I don't know why but when certain circuits of ours trip (usually at Christmas), I've found it's a GFI that I wouldn't have expected. So even if the ones in the kitchen are not tripped, check for one in the garage or anywhere else in the house. You never know.....

 

[DMickey28]

Thank you guys. I am going to turn this breaker off for the night, just to be safe. This house was owned by an engineer prior to us and EVERYTHING is labeled very well!! I will turn the fuses off again tomorrow and try again.

There was a phone plugged into the outlet next to the switches but NOTHING else has ever been plugged into the outlets while we have been here.

Now I am worried the house is going to burn down overnight. FYI - NOTHING was hot when this happened ... the switch outlet did not smell, the breaker downstairs was not warm or anything. I touched all of them and one did trip easily compared to the others, the one for the bathroom upstairs . I turned that off and back on. I know that there is a fine line between off/on and tripped. None where tripped.

Thanks for the advice ... I am going to resurrect this thread tomorrow after I follow some of this advice.

I do know of a licensed electrician I can call. He was actually the guy who installed our cable when we moved and he gave us his business card. Any idea on the cost of someone to come check it out?????

 

[DMickey28]

KB - Other than that shared wall and the outlets with that, nothing else responds to that circuit breaker. Everything else that is on, stays on.

 

[Imzadi]

Now that you've turned every one of your circuit breakers off, remember ALL your clocks are incorrect. Make sure you reset the time, or your alarm will go off at the wrong time tomorrow.