Fetuses/even newborns can't feel pain??

[Val]

I believe if you read the scientific literature you will find evidence of responsiveness to painful stimuli from about 16 weeks on. The fetus responds to pain with a change in heart rate, withdrawal reflex, slowed sucking, etc......now, whether the fetus perceives the pain cognitively (awareness) versus is simply acting reflexively is hotly debated. However, on the animal research end, if an organism even reflexively reacts to painful stimuli federal guidelines require the use of anesthesia- this includes any invertebrate including fish, frogs, etc. (no more students pithing frogs in gen bio labs!) and fetal animal that are covered (except eggs younger than a certain gestational age).....

.....last time I checked human fetuses were in the "vertebrate" category. Now, if they REMEMBER the birth trauma is a whole 'nother story. Ask Tom Cruise about that!

 

[tiggersmom2]

Yes, newborns feel pain without a doubt. I remember my sons crying so hard that they puked after circumcision. I am sure the 2nd and 3rd trimester babies that are aborted feel pain too......

 

[MrsPete]

I don't know about what the scientists claim, but I know for a fact that a baby one hour old can feel pain. Having two babies in the NICU and watching them get stuck and poked with IV needles, I can say without a doubt that they felt pain. I don't care what the scientists say!

I have never had that experience, but I know that my daughter was born with very long fingernails. When I trimmed them (in the hospital within 24 hours after birth), and I cut her finger SHE CRIED. Evidence enough for me.

 

[Darth Cupcake]

I strongly disagree with the conclusion that fetuses and newborns can't feel pain. I'll try to post some of my reasons when I have more time. In the meantime, I have one general observation:

There are people who "just know" that all animals (ants, rats, fish, etc..) feel pain regardless of the complexity of their nervous systems. They act upon this belief demanding that humanity take the prevention of such pain seriously. However, when the subject is human fetuses and newborns they quickly dismiss any possibility of suffering.

Even if I and others accept that no one knows definitively what an unborn child experiences, why not "err" on the side of compassion? And when it comes to newborns, "erring" on the side of compassion can never be the wrong choice.

 

[DawnCt1]

I'll tell you who I have empathy for. I have empathy for well meaning scientists who come under attack and get accused of pushing some kind of agenda.

What could be possibly "well meaning" to disceminate the false belief that fetuses and neonates don't feel pain? It seems to me that its an effort to "dehumanize" them and make abortion "easier".

 

[DawnCt1]

It worries me how many people are clinging on to their beliefs for no reason other than emotion. Research shows that foetuses don't feel pain. Live with it. It may be right, it may be wrong - who truly knows? In time, further research may find evidence to the contrary and the tables will be turned again.

The most only course of action is to inform oneself as to the limited facts we now have.



Rich::

Then the research is flawed with erroneous conclusions. Babies may not be able to localize pain and feel it in a generalized way, but there is no doubt that they feel pain.

 

[minkydog]

I'm sorry, but I just do not believe that babies are incapable of feeling pain. I have never seen even one baby boy sleep through a circumcision.
i worked for over 15yrs in the NICU/PICU and i can tell you assuredly, those babies feel pain. Lots and lots of it. So much, that sometimes they have to be given strong narcotics to keep their blood pressure and heart rate stable.

 

[WDW Poly Princess]

I find it hard to believe that babies wouldn't feel pain before they're born.

Don't most babies want to eat shortly after being born? How is feeling hunger all that different from feeling pain? So they don't need past experience to feel hunger, but they do to feel pain?

I did a Google search, and found these results-

In Aug 2005, researchers at the University of CA found that "The researchers reviewed dozens of studies and medical reports and said the data indicate that fetuses likely are incapable of feeling pain until around the seventh month of pregnancy, when they are about 28 weeks old. "

Another site said "The fetus can feel pain at 20 weeks. This is probably a conservatively late estimate, but it is scientifically solid. Elements of the pain-conveying system (spino-thalamic system) begin to be assembled at 7 weeks; enough development has occurred by 12-14 weeks that some pain perception is likely, and continues to build through the second trimester. By 20 weeks, the spino- thalamic system is fully established and connected. "

Yet another site said that "In the end, the question of fetal pain, like almost all abortion controversy comes down to who you believe. Pro-life doctors state that fetuses can feel pain by 8 weeks after fertilization (about the time most surgical abortions take place). Pro-abortion doctors argue that fetuses don't experience pain until the very end of pregnancy."

And on another-""By 13.5 to 14 weeks, the entire body surface, except for the back and the top of the head, are sensitive to pain." -The Development of the Brain by S. Reinis and J. Goldman "

And on a Pro-Choice site- "In short, the evidence indicates that fetuses do not feel pain until after the start of the third trimester—and even that evidence remains uncertain because it's impossible to know for sure that fetuses consciously experience pain in the same way that a person does. "

This one is from earlier this month- "Premature babies experience real pain rather than just displaying reflex reactions, scientists said yesterday. Brain scans carried out on premature babies during blood tests showed surges of blood and oxygen in the sensory areas of their brains - demonstrating that pain was being processed. Previous research had shown that even the youngest newborns are capable of showing the behavioural signs of pain but it had been unclear whether these were simply bodily reflexes. Prof Maria Fitzgerald, from the department of anatomy and developmental biology at University College London, who led the team, said: "We have shown for the first time that the information about pain reaches the brain in premature babies."

It's interesting what a wide range of conclusions there are! I think it's mostly going to be a matter of opinion, since there isn't really a way to say "Hey, Fetus! How's it going? Could you maybe stop kicking me at 4am? And by the way, do you feel pain if I poke you?"