Fate of 2042 DVC resorts?

FlynnRiderSwitch

Earning My Ears
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Has anyone heard any rumors of what possibly could happen when 2042 rolls around? We just passed ROFR on BWV and plan on making the most of the 19 years left but I really hope Disney offers owners of these resorts an extension at some point.
 
Unlikely there will be an extension offered. The only extension was at Old Key West. It wasn't particularly well received and the manner it was handled may not have even been legal. I think the most realistic possibility is that they try to sell you another 50-year contract around 2040, maybe with some modest "existing owner" discount. But even that depends on what sort of plans they have for the resort. Immediately selling again means they're committing to another half-century of the current setup. It's not inconceivable that Disney could plan some major overhaul to the property which takes it out of service for a couple years. If nothing else, the points charts will definitely change.
 
Unlikely there will be an extension offered. The only extension was at Old Key West. It wasn't particularly well received and the manner it was handled may not have even been legal. I think the most realistic possibility is that they try to sell you another 50-year contract around 2040, maybe with some modest "existing owner" discount. But even that depends on what sort of plans they have for the resort. Immediately selling again means they're committing to another half-century of the current setup. It's not inconceivable that Disney could plan some major overhaul to the property which takes it out of service for a couple years. If nothing else, the points charts will definitely change.
Yeah probably just wishful thinking. At what point do these 2042 contracts start losing value too, I look at BCV and can’t believe how much that sells for on resale. One of the reasons I like BWV is the low points per night (at least for the studio standard view) compared to most other resorts and we love the location. We considered Poly but your points go farther at BWV. Only downside is the 2042 date.
 
Last Dec we added BWV (Direct 100 pts) to our BLT (Direct 160 pts) because we fell in love with BWV during our Covid stays, the low point requirements and DW's new favorite restaurant, the FF. Our first 'Welcome Home' is in a few weeks n a 1 BR (super cheap). We plan to only use our BWV pts at BWV, and ride the contract out to the end. At that point we will be our mid-80's and hopefully still agile enough to enjoy our BLT points.
 


I own at BRV, BWV, BLT and some 2042 points at OKW. I am not particularly concerned about the end-date as I will be 83 (assuming I am still around). We may see these resorts going into fire sale mode in 5-10 years, but who knows. As I pointed out in another thread, no one knows what Disney is going to do, so why speculate? Enjoy the resorts while we still have them and don't concern yourself with what the future will bring. There are plenty of longer lived resorts like Riviera (2070) and the new Polynesian Tower and whatever end date it will have.
 
Last Dec we added BWV (Direct 100 pts) to our BLT (Direct 160 pts) because we fell in love with BWV during our Covid stays, the low point requirements and DW's new favorite restaurant, the FF. Our first 'Welcome Home' is in a few weeks n a 1 BR (super cheap). We plan to only use our BWV pts at BWV, and ride the contract out to the end. At that point we will be our mid-80's and hopefully still agile enough to enjoy our BLT points.
Sounds like a great plan, did you have to wait a while for the BWV direct or are they immediately available to purchase? We are curious too how hard it is to get BWV standard studio contracts 11 months out as we plan on maximizing our points as much as possible. I will be in my 70's when 2042 comes around, our first DVC BWV trip as owners I am hoping will be in Sept 2023. Can't wait to start using our points.
 


I could see tearing down some of the buildings at OKW and rebuilding them higher with elevators, maybe adding parking on bottom floor, and then reselling the points. They’d have to keep enough of the old buildings to accommodate those who extended their points, but eventually they could replace the whole property with higher density buildings. Not sure how well that idea could work at other resorts though.
 
Sounds like a great plan, did you have to wait a while for the BWV direct or are they immediately available to purchase?
Off-sale resorts ordinarily will require a wait when buying direct unless DVD happens to have the resort and the number of points you want right then.

We bought into VGF 5 years ago and wanted the 100-pt. minimum. Our guide said we'd be waitlisted for six months but might get an offer in a couple months. I think it was about 6 weeks later that we got one. It took us less than 24 hours to decide. :)

The catch to buying an off-sale resort then (might've changed since) was that once Disney issued an offer, we had only two weeks to decide. If we refused it, we would be dropped and could not waitlist another.

We've never regretted buying VGF off-sale. It was the only resort we wanted, so we didn't mind paying direct price one bit.
 
I own at BRV, BWV, BLT and some 2042 points at OKW. I am not particularly concerned about the end-date as I will be 83 (assuming I am still around). We may see these resorts going into fire sale mode in 5-10 years, but who knows. As I pointed out in another thread, no one knows what Disney is going to do, so why speculate? Enjoy the resorts while we still have them and don't concern yourself with what the future will bring. There are plenty of longer lived resorts like Riviera (2070) and the new Polynesian Tower and whatever end date it will have.
Good point about the fire sale. Never thought about that. Makes you wonder how many will default on the dues towards the end. 20 years is a long ways away, however if the wanted to fund some refurbs by offering extensions I’m game. Towards the end if they don’t extend I could see some bitterness wanting to stick it to Disney
 
There are 5 DVC resorts that will all expire in 2042 (BCV, BWV, BRV, HHI, VBR).

Even if Disney sells off HHI and VBR, they potentially have 3 resorts that they would need to do something with.

If Disney did nothing and just decided to resell BCV, BWV and BRV - you suddenly have a lot of DVC points for sale, which could be a challenge to sell.

Theoretically BCV could be completely torn down and rebuilt as a larger tower, but BWV and BRV are attached to hotels and I don't see them tearing the entire structure down.

It would be a lot of capital investment for Disney to renovate all 3 buildings at the same time, not to mention it would mean a loss of income while they renovate.

It will really depend on what Disney's financial situation is around that time but I personally think Disney may have to take a different approach to the 3 WDW DVC resorts.

For example - what if they took BWV and offered a 20 or 25 year contract to existing owners of BCV, BWV and BRV? Not everyone will want that, but some people would buy in. Then they could sell whatever remains to other DVC members or the general public. BCV gets torn down and a brand new resort gets built in its place, and BRV perhaps becomes hotel rooms? Or BRV rooms could get a quick refurb like the Grand Floridian resort studios and be added to the CCV association with the additional points being sold similar to the way Grand Floridian works - there would be 26 years left on the CCV deed in 2042. Just thinking of how Disney could manage things.
 
Last Dec we added BWV (Direct 100 pts) to our BLT (Direct 160 pts) because we fell in love with BWV during our Covid stays, the low point requirements and DW's new favorite restaurant, the FF. Our first 'Welcome Home' is in a few weeks n a 1 BR (super cheap). We plan to only use our BWV pts at BWV, and ride the contract out to the end. At that point we will be our mid-80's and hopefully still agile enough to enjoy our BLT points.
BWV Standard View rooms are the best value in all DVC! :)

Gets you within walking distance of 2 theme parks for about the same price as the difficult-to-book Value rooms at AKV.
 
... did you have to wait a while for the BWV direct or are they immediately available to purchase?
Immediately available to book when purchased direct, even before on-line paperwork was processed. Part of of reasoning to go direct, along with a small contract with our Sept UY. Was able to get our 1-BR Std end of Sept 2022 due to the points being immediately available.
We are curious too how hard it is to get BWV standard studio contracts 11 months out as we plan on maximizing our points as much as possible.
So far very doable for us, especially if you can alter your dates. You my need to stalk the booking site to get your rooms once the walkers move on by. Waitlist is also working for us. We used to go in Oct, but due to point chart changes, we are back to Sept/Dec/Jan/May. Always be prepared for other room views if you can't get the coveted Standard studio.
 
The problem with Disney not offering “something” is that over 20 million points will be hitting the market all at once.

That’s more than triple the size of RIV.
Do you mean that 20 million points are expiring all at once? The points from 2042 resorts aren't hitting the market unless I am misunderstanding something.

DVC will have to have some resort(s) in active sales in the 2035-2042 window, I would think. I can't imagine a scenario where the 2042 resorts expire on January 31st and immediately go back on sale under some new iteration on February 1st.
 
Do you mean that 20 million points are expiring all at once? The points from 2042 resorts aren't hitting the market unless I am misunderstanding something.

DVC will have to have some resort(s) in active sales in the 2035-2042 window, I would think. I can't imagine a scenario where the 2042 resorts expire on January 31st and immediately go back on sale under some new iteration on February 1st.

I think you may be misunderstanding? Owners have the right to use their contracts through January 2042, after that - all of the points return to Disney and because there is an existing deed for the property until 2042, I don't think they can just start reselling points for a new deed before that. Maybe some short time earlier like 6 months earlier, the same way you might sell a new property ahead of time, but not years earlier - the new owners wouldn't be allowed to the property until after the original deed expires I don't believe.

For example, if Disney were selling "BWV2" ahead of time, the owners of BWV2 wouldn't be able to use the resort until February 2042 right? I could see them selling ahead of schedule in 2041 or something like that, especially to existing owners - but I doubt anyone would buy into a contract that starts in Feb 2042 in 2035?

If Disney started to allow owners of "BWV2" in 2035 I would think you would run afoul of the original BWV deed and contract owners -- because you'd be interfering with the existing contracts and preventing original owners from using their points. Disney could start to buy back points through ROFR and use them for cash stays I guess?

Sure, Disney could not declare all of the 20M points from the 3 resorts at the same time - they could do like they've been doing with RIV and just declare a percentage of the property for DVC and then as they sell points, they could declare more of it into the new resort I guess, but it would still take years to sell 20M points. RIV has already taken years. Whatever they don't declare they can obviously offer for cash says as well.

This also assumes that Disney does absolutely nothing with the rooms and they would be exactly the same from the first contract to the next. If they plan to refurbish rooms or do something to attract new buyers to these resorts, you couldn't just flip the rooms that easily.

Thats why I think Disney is going to need to take different strategies at least for the 3 WDW resorts. HHI and VBR will likely be sold off to a 3rd party.

The WDW ones, Disney is going to have to get creative, which is why I think they could possibly offer an "extension" to existing owners. It won't be an extension the same way OKW is, it will be a brand new deed but with a shorter timeframe to push at least 1 of the resorts outside of the 2042 window.

That will allow Disney to entice existing owners to "extend" for some amount of time without needing to do anything to 1 of the resorts as well as allow them to change the point values for rooms. Not everyone will buy into the extension, so Disney will try to entice owners of the other 2 resorts to buy into the 1 extension contract -- it buys them time and gives them some cash flow.

It is feasible BCV could be demolished to build something new with more density (think a tower style hotel) and then the 3rd building could either be fully renovated and sold as a new resort, turned into hotel rooms - or something else.

Maybe BRV could get rolled into the CCV deed and the additional points are sold off to existing owners first then new owners or they do an extension contract like I described with BWV.

Will definitely be interesting to see what they actually do, I'm just speculating of course, but I agree with Nabas that there would be too many points for Disney to just try and sell all of them as "new" resorts imho.

What they should have done originally imho is given BCV a full 50 years (BCV only got 40 years, opened in 2002 -> 2042). If they gave BCV the full 50 years and it expired in 2052, you'd have 1 less resort expiring in 2042, BRV could also have been 2044 (opened in 1994) and BWV should have been 2046 (opened in 1996).

That would have spread things out for them and given them a bit of a buffer to resell some of these expiring resorts instead of them all expiring at the same time.
 
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I'm not a lawyer - but I wonder if Disney bought back enough points at each resort, lets say 10% of each, could they take 10% of each resort offline to renovate for a new resort - then open 10% of the resort as part of a new deed the same way they declare only 10% of a new resort at first? I can see how that works with a new resort, because the piece of deeded property you're buying belongs to that 10% of the resort that they have declared. But if Disney bought back 10% of BWV for example, the deeded properties would be all over the resort, it wouldn't be a single 10% part of the resort.

But if lets say for example this is feasible - I guess Disney could start buying back points through ROFR before 2042, and holding onto them for a refurb and turn them into a new deed early?

I don't know if this would work legally though - so I don't know whether Disney could do this or not. I suspect you can't do this, since the entire property is under a single deed, you can't pluck off 10% of it early and make it part of a different deed. That 10% also isn't part of a single part of the resort, it is going to be all over the resort.
 
BWV’s 2042 expiration is more comfortable to us than having 40+ years left. That’s really all the time we want, at a location that I’m pretty confident we’ll continue to enjoy in that time span. Didn’t make sense to buy a longer contract at different resort entirely on speculative value comparisons decades from now.

We hope to use up the contract. No intention of selling but it won’t owe us anything after 2025. Doesn’t matter much to us where the price goes. Not expecting it to be life changing in either direction. Don’t care if it’s worth $12pp in 2030. But who knows, these 2042 contracts may still be attractive in the last 5-10 years for the same reasons they were for us. Short and sweet. Think about it this way- if it were possible to buy 8yr contracts to Poly right now, how active would sales be at $65pp? It’s an OK deal, not a great deal, but I think some people would like the easier buy-in cost and lack of long term commitment.
 
I think you may be misunderstanding? Owners have the right to use their contracts through January 2042, after that - all of the points return to Disney and because there is an existing deed for the property until 2042, I don't think they can just start reselling points for a new deed before that. Maybe some short time earlier like 6 months earlier, the same way you might sell a new property ahead of time, but not years earlier - the new owners wouldn't be allowed to the property until after the original deed expires I don't believe.

For example, if Disney were selling "BWV2" ahead of time, the owners of BWV2 wouldn't be able to use the resort until February 2042 right? I could see them selling ahead of schedule in 2041 or something like that, especially to existing owners - but I doubt anyone would buy into a contract that starts in Feb 2042 in 2035?

If Disney started to allow owners of "BWV2" in 2035 I would think you would run afoul of the original BWV deed and contract owners -- because you'd be interfering with the existing contracts and preventing original owners from using their points. Disney could start to buy back points through ROFR and use them for cash stays I guess?

Sure, Disney could not declare all of the 20M points from the 3 resorts at the same time - they could do like they've been doing with RIV and just declare a percentage of the property for DVC and then as they sell points, they could declare more of it into the new resort I guess, but it would still take years to sell 20M points. RIV has already taken years. Whatever they don't declare they can obviously offer for cash says as well.

This also assumes that Disney does absolutely nothing with the rooms and they would be exactly the same from the first contract to the next. If they plan to refurbish rooms or do something to attract new buyers to these resorts, you couldn't just flip the rooms that easily.

Thats why I think Disney is going to need to take different strategies at least for the 3 WDW resorts. HHI and VBR will likely be sold off to a 3rd party.

The WDW ones, Disney is going to have to get creative, which is why I think they could possibly offer an "extension" to existing owners. It won't be an extension the same way OKW is, it will be a brand new deed but with a shorter timeframe to push at least 1 of the resorts outside of the 2042 window.

That will allow Disney to entice existing owners to "extend" for some amount of time without needing to do anything to 1 of the resorts as well as allow them to change the point values for rooms. Not everyone will buy into the extension, so Disney will try to entice owners of the other 2 resorts to buy into the 1 extension contract -- it buys them time and gives them some cash flow.

It is feasible BCV could be demolished to build something new with more density (think a tower style hotel) and then the 3rd building could either be fully renovated and sold as a new resort, turned into hotel rooms - or something else.

Maybe BRV could get rolled into the CCV deed and the additional points are sold off to existing owners first then new owners or they do an extension contract like I described with BWV.

Will definitely be interesting to see what they actually do, I'm just speculating of course, but I agree with Nabas that there would be too many points for Disney to just try and sell all of them as "new" resorts imho.

What they should have done originally imho is given BCV a full 50 years (BCV only got 40 years, opened in 2002 -> 2042). If they gave BCV the full 50 years and it expired in 2052, you'd have 1 less resort expiring in 2042, BRV could also have been 2044 (opened in 1994) and BWV should have been 2046 (opened in 1996).

That would have spread things out for them and given them a bit of a buffer to resell some of these expiring resorts instead of them all expiring at the same time.
I understand that the points for the 2042 resorts all expire in January 2042. What I was confused by is the reference to those 20 million points "hitting the market." They don't hit the market, they go away.

My reference to DVD needing to be selling something in 2035 was not meaning that they were going to sell either a BWV2 or BCV2 using the same rooms, that cannot happen. But they have to be selling something as that's what they do.

I think they will build a whole new resort somewhere in the Yacht or Beach Club area to be actively selling as the legacy BCV and BWV expire. That would give them active sales in the Epcot area and allow for a refurb at the legacy resorts a few years down the road. That real estate is too prime to not leverage.
 

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