Extracurricular activities are not the same as when I was in school

[momz]

extracurricular activities were for fun when I was a kid. It served to build confidence, learn to work as a team and learn new skills. Many times, that is still the case. But unfortunately, all too often it goes too far. I have seen local families struggle financially so their kid can be on a travel team (I've been constantly asked to buy stuff for their fundraisers, I've learned to decline because I have my own kids support). Others sacrifice their time with family for these events, to the point of completely separating from all family functions because junior has practice. I have seen families go as far as to compromise their religious convictions and work obligations because going to church or work conflicts with precious's weekly tournament schedule. Now, I'm not talking once in a while, but every weekend for months on end.

Now, this story takes it even farther, to the point of intentionally inflicting injury. And for what purpose? Take a look at this story about a cheer coach requiring "power stretching" and intentionally causing tearing of the muscles, tendons and ligaments while forcing girls to do splits. This is far far far from the norm for cheer coaching I hope. It is the extreme, but it speaks to what people are willing to do for their kid's sports career.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/2...-shes-being-cyberbullied-for-speaking-up.html

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Yea I'm not into giving up my life for my kids extra curricular activities. They were/are allowed to play one sport per season. It had to be recreational. No travel.

Once they hit high school they can play what they want since the school takes care of the busing to away games. And there are late buses that bring them home after practice. If the late bus isn't running I can pick him up or he can walk home (we are within walking distance). My son has done baseball and basketball.

DD is still in 6th grade so no school sports yet. DD wants to do cheerleading for our township. Practice is every night from 5-8 pm and games on Sunday with travel games as far as an hour drives. There's no way I'm committing to that and giving up my weekends and all weeknights. It just won't happen. I told her she can do cheerleading when she gets to high school.

 

[sam_gordon]

extracurricular activities were for fun when I was a kid. It served to build confidence, learn to work as a team and learn new skills. Many times, that is still the case. But unfortunately, all too often it goes too far. I have seen local families struggle financially so their kid can be on a travel team (I've been constantly asked to buy stuff for their fundraisers, I've learned to decline because I have my own kids support). Others sacrifice their time with family for these events, to the point of completely separating from all family functions because junior has practice. I have seen families go as far as to compromise their religious convictions and work obligations because going to church or work conflicts with precious's weekly tournament schedule. Now, I'm not talking once in a while, but every weekend for months on end.

Now, this story takes it even farther, to the point of intentionally inflicting injury. And for what purpose? Take a look at this story about a cheer coach requiring "power stretching" and intentionally causing tearing of the muscles, tendons and ligaments while forcing girls to do splits. This is far far far from the norm for cheer coaching I hope. It is the extreme, but it speaks to what people are willing to do for their kid's sports career.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/2...-shes-being-cyberbullied-for-speaking-up.html

I think we talked about this when it happened.

I will say (as a sports parent), we spend time separated (DW will take DD and I'll take DS or the other way around). But that's a choice we make. There's no single right way to parent and there's no single right way to have kids involved in activities. There are people who spend less (both in money and time) on their kids activities than we do and there are people who spend more. I would never say the way we do things is the "right way" to do things. I will present what we've done and say it works out for us.

I was talking to parents of one of DS' soccer teammates. Back in April, DS got the opportunity to go to Spain and play in an international tournament. DW & I went with him. The dad of the other player made a comment about how financially he'd never pay for something like that. I don't remember the exact words he used, but it came off as an insult.

It gets old when people point out the extremes and seem to believe it's the "normal". My kids play soccer. We know kids who play basketball, or are in theater or dance, or who are involved in their church. WHO CARES? It's one thing to say "that's not for our family", but to criticize a family for making that choice is rude. I'm sure that's not what you meant by your post, but I'm sure some responses will be hinting at it.

 

[Southernmiss]

I think we talked about this when it happened.

I will say (as a sports parent), we spend time separated (DW will take DD and I'll take DS or the other way around). But that's a choice we make. There's no single right way to parent and there's no single right way to have kids involved in activities. There are people who spend less (both in money and time) on their kids activities than we do and there are people who spend more. I would never say the way we do things is the "right way" to do things. I will present what we've done and say it works out for us.

I was talking to parents of one of DS' soccer teammates. Back in April, DS got the opportunity to go to Spain and play in an international tournament. DW & I went with him. The dad of the other player made a comment about how financially he'd never pay for something like that. I don't remember the exact words he used, but it came off as an insult.

It gets old when people point out the extremes and seem to believe it's the "normal". My kids play soccer. We know kids who play basketball, or are in theater or dance, or who are involved in their church. WHO CARES? It's one thing to say "that's not for our family", but to criticize a family for making that choice is rude. I'm sure that's not what you meant by your post, but I'm sure some responses will be hinting at it.

In complete agreement. Good answer.

We have done what is right for our family, not any one elses. Our kids were allowed 1 activity per season (with 4 it was too much to keep up with more). Now that only DD is home, we are able to allow her to have 2 activities per season.

We prioritized what is important for our family. Sure, there are Sunday and travel games, but guess what ? As a church secretary, DD is in church a lot more than a lot of kids we know who are not involved in activities. Church is not just on Sunday - Saturday Masses and holy days and youth group. Not to mention the days she comes to help me with projects.

Some families go to the extreme with any activity they are involved in, even church. Some families, don't do any activity. It is what works for them. No one else.

Our kids have learned very valuable skills in prioritizing their time and learning how to be dedicated and on time, working with a varied group of people and so much more.

And no activity is like when I was in school 30 years ago. My old high school is all modern and just rebuilt this year. I am glad for those kids that get the modern technology, but don't begrudge them because it's not what I had.

 

[Marchand63]

I think we talked about this when it happened.

I will say (as a sports parent), we spend time separated (DW will take DD and I'll take DS or the other way around). But that's a choice we make. There's no single right way to parent and there's no single right way to have kids involved in activities. There are people who spend less (both in money and time) on their kids activities than we do and there are people who spend more. I would never say the way we do things is the "right way" to do things. I will present what we've done and say it works out for us.

I was talking to parents of one of DS' soccer teammates. Back in April, DS got the opportunity to go to Spain and play in an international tournament. DW & I went with him. The dad of the other player made a comment about how financially he'd never pay for something like that. I don't remember the exact words he used, but it came off as an insult.

It gets old when people point out the extremes and seem to believe it's the "normal". My kids play soccer. We know kids who play basketball, or are in theater or dance, or who are involved in their church. WHO CARES? It's one thing to say "that's not for our family", but to criticize a family for making that choice is rude. I'm sure that's not what you meant by your post, but I'm sure some responses will be hinting at it.

Also was a sports parent, I loved going to my DSs games and spending time with him. As for turning down family functions, have you read the DIS on families?
Sometimes it was a great excuse not to put up some family.

I have never regretted money or time spent on my kids. I proudly say I maybe missed 2 or 3 games he ever played. How many parents miss their kids lives because they have too many meetings to go to? I would rather miss a meeting than my kids life.

I can also say we are closer than most "church" families who don't always practice what they preach.

 

[soccerdad72]

I'm not sure what the cheerleading story has to do with your first paragraph? If parents are condoning this sort of thing, then yes, it's out of control, but I don't think there's a lot of people that agree with this coach's decision.

As far as extracurricular activities go, yes, I do think there's more planned activities than there was when I was a kid, but it's up to each family to decide what is best for themselves. We are also a sports family, soccer mostly, but our boys play other sports as well. We also limit them to one "travel" sport, but encourage them to play other things as well. There are certainly weekends when my wife and I are split up (less now so, since our oldest is driving), but I don't necessarily know that it's taking away from "family" time.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Abuse like this is nothing new. It went on when I was a kid just as it does now. It's just that now that everyone has a phone with a video function, it's being caught. The shame of it is, these allegations would have been brushed aside back in my day because there wouldn't have been that obvious video. These videos provide slap you in the face level proof that we just didn't have back then. And yet even today there are probably people involved that will deny what that video shows. Oh that video is out of context, blah blah blah.

But I see abuses like these as a separate issue from sports tourism and travel leagues. Abuses can happen anywhere. All places. All walks of life. Oh wait. I just learned on the Dis abuses only happen in Hollywood. My bad.

 

[mjkacmom]

I have 5 kids, and never even limited their activities. For years, we had at least 8 games every weekend! So instead of being home cleaning and doing needed repairs, we were out in the fresh air with family and friends. I love our hectic life of Sports and dance every day, 7 days a week, plus church activities (peer leadership and ccd teaching). So many kids sit around connected to their devices or in front of screens.

Back in my day, we just hung around and got into trouble, my kids have no time for that. They’ve learned how to organize thei time, get great grades, and have close circles of good friends.

And if they are no longer interested in an activity, that’s fine. My boys played baseball from 5 - 14, dd14 is going to stop competing dance soon after 8 years (dd 16 is going to continue until graduation), dd21 did no sports, dd16 just a little soccer and xc, which she loves.

Swimming was non negotiable, for safety reasons, years and years of that.

 

[Hikergirl]

I think there are two separate issues in your OP. I believe that the coach was fired, and while it may not be an isolated incident I'm not sure that kind of abuse is the norm in extracurricular activities.

As long as the families are choosing the way they do things, then I really don't care what they give up to support their kids activities. Nobody is forced to do anything.
There are things I wouldn't do, but I'm not going to say those things are wrong. What doesn't work for one family may work for another.

 

[NYCgrrl]

News from earlier in the summer updated:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/forced-splits-cheerleading-denver-no-charges-coach-ozell-williams/
Power stretching can also be found in modern and ballet classes; yoga, gymnastics and just any sport/activities that requires full use of your body and it's been around since I was a little girl which was a long long long time ago, LOL.
I don't consider it a form of abuse but realise that as a nation we are not big on using our bodies.

 

[Marchand63]

News from earlier in the summer updated:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/forced-splits-cheerleading-denver-no-charges-coach-ozell-williams/
Power stretching can also be found in modern and ballet classes; yoga, gymnastics and just any sport/activities that requires full use of your body and it's been around since I was a little girl which was a long long long time ago, LOL.
I don't consider it a form of abuse but realise that as a nation we are not big on using our bodies.

It is very common. My DH plays hockey and they do this all the time before games. They will have someone push down on them as they are in a stretch position

 

[Colleen27]

I don't think that's anything new. I played travel ball as a kid, and resented the hell out of my mom (for about 15 minutes, until my friends who did play at that level started having to miss other fun things for softball) for not letting me go to the next level which would have been even more time, money, and travel expenses. I also swam on a club team that cost a decent chunk of change, just so I could swim year-round when the rec program was summers only.

We drew a pretty hard line with our kids when they were young, simply because with three of them and only one of me (DH's hours are too long and too erratic to count on him to handle sports commitments on a regular basis) there was no way to accommodate them all playing at that level. So rather than pick and choose and make so much of our free time about just one child, we didn't allow travel sports at all. Of the three kids, only DD16 really raised the issue more than just in passing, when she was a U10 and all the best players from her softball team were moving over to the travel/tournament team. I said no then. When she got the invite to try out later, as a 12yo, she said no without even consulting me. She wasn't interested in giving up her other activities or our travels in order to play year-round softball.

I'll admit, I'm not a big fan of travel sports. I personally can't see devoting the family's free time to one child's activity, or making all of our vacations revolve around out-of-state tournaments. But if another family considers that a good use of their time and money, that's up to them. I'm sure there's no shortage of people who think we're crazy for pinching pennies to pay private school tuition or traveling as much as we do or going to WDW so often. I don't care what they think, and I doubt very much they care what I think about their travel sports.

 

[scoutie]

The great thing is that there are a lot of different ways to play sports in most communities. There is the travel option, the park district option, and often time an intramural option. My kids have done all types. My seventh grader just made the school's basketball team, but before that he played through the park district. My daughter is a competitive gymnast who practices 16 hours a week. I never ever thought that I would support this, but she's good enough where she doesn't feel challenged unless she's in a program where she can compete against kids at her ability level, and I will admit that it's made her focused, organized, and inspired. Each kid is different. Each family is different. Luckily, we live in a society where there are options to fit each lifestyle.

 

[Skippy918]

Although from what I’ve seen, the older the kids get the less choices there are for non competitive options and advancing in said options. My son does gymnastics once a week. For boys recreational classes, the level maxes out at intermediate. If he wants to advance, he has to join the team, which he doesn’t want to do, and my work schedule doesn’t allow for it as well. That might change once he gets to middle school because the middle school is across the street from the gymnastics place.
A friend of mine was also telling me that in order to be on the high school swim team, one must also be on a club team. So not only does the teen have to do swim practice in the morning, they have afternoon swim practice and therefore can’t join any other activities.

 

[momz]

Issue #1. Power stretching. I am seeing several people post that this is normal and common? The girl was screaming and crying to stop. People were holding her arms up and others were holding her legs while another pushed her into the splits. She was completely restrained on all four limbs and was screaming out in fear. That sounds like assault to me.

Issue #2. After 7th grade, there are no more rec leagues. It's either travel or school. And you can't be on the school team if you don't travel on the off season. We could afford it financially, but don't see the value in it. Also, none of us (kids included) are willing to sacrifice everything else for sport. We love to travel when and where we decide to go. The kids have other activities that they would have to give up if they wanted to do just one sport (piano, band, theater, dating, working, hang out doing nothing, going places with friends). Currently, my oldest is on a three week student exchange trip over seas. Can't do that if you play sports.

My point on issue #2 is that sports is either all or none. Gone are the days of rec league sports. Why can't there be sports for the fun of it, why must it be ultra competitive race to the top? I don't understand the point of working to the point of injury, and driving the kids to compete to the point of tears. I also don't see the value in the titles that are fought for. "Worlds", "Nationals", whatever. It seems that wherever parents are willing to spend money, there will be an organization there to create a blown up title and plastic trophy for the competitors.

The way I see it, childhood is short and you only get one shot at it. I'm not willing to give my kids childhood over to to glitz and glamour of sports. Let them play and explore and build and day dream. Let them have the freedom to experience the broader world beyond the confines of three hour practices 6 days a week ad nauseum. But also, let them play ball in the sand lot with the neighborhood kids if they want.

 

[NYCgrrl]

Issue #1. Power stretching. I am seeing several people post that this is normal and common? The girl was screaming and crying to stop. People were holding her arms up and others were holding her legs while another pushed her into the splits. She was completely restrained on all four limbs and was screaming out in fear. That sounds like assault to me.



The way I see it, childhood is short and you only get one shot at it. I'm not willing to give my kids childhood over to to glitz and glamour of sports. Let them play and explore and build and day dream. Let them have the freedom to experience the broader world beyond the confines of three hour practices 6 days a week ad nauseum. But also, let them play ball in the sand lot with the neighborhood kids if they want.

Children have been known to exaggerate and from my recollection they are even better at it with an audience.
Or maybe the young lady has a rare muscle disorder so let's be thankful it's been found.

I can't say anything about the glitz and glamour of sports since that wasn't the focus of my childhood activities and my mother couldn't afford it even if she wanted to and trust me, the glitz existed then too. Our next door nabe studied dance at a neighborhood dance school and I'll never forget envying her pony costume; couldn't dance worth spit but boy did she look good, LOL. My mother wanted her DDs to be strong in spirit and body and I thank her foresight.

For me, and my classmates it was a black basic leotard for all our recitals. We learned from locally and nationally known dance instructors/choreographers and they worked us harddd. I learned yoga, breathing and Pilates exercises that still serve me well 50 odd years later, long before it became fashionable. Andddd if a teacher had to put her knees on your back and push to "power stretch" you (new terminology for me; they just did it) you just accepted and focused more for the next class.
I'm not seeing any abuse/assault; I see liberation, power, and self awareness.

Nothing wrong with children playing in a sandlot; nothing wrong with organised sports. The only thing that would be wrong is if children didn't have a chance to enjoy the fleeting time of youth.

 

[sam_gordon]

Issue #2. After 7th grade, there are no more rec leagues. It's either travel or school. And you can't be on the school team if you don't travel on the off season. We could afford it financially, but don't see the value in it. Also, none of us (kids included) are willing to sacrifice everything else for sport. We love to travel when and where we decide to go. The kids have other activities that they would have to give up if they wanted to do just one sport (piano, band, theater, dating, working, hang out doing nothing, going places with friends). Currently, my oldest is on a three week student exchange trip over seas. Can't do that if you play sports.

There are rec leagues around here past 7th grade. The problem is numbers. There just aren't enough kids interested in rec to help sustain leagues. There's nothing wrong with not being on a team, just like there's nothing wrong with being on one.

My point on issue #2 is that sports is either all or none. Gone are the days of rec league sports. Why can't there be sports for the fun of it, why must it be ultra competitive race to the top? I don't understand the point of working to the point of injury, and driving the kids to compete to the point of tears. I also don't see the value in the titles that are fought for. "Worlds", "Nationals", whatever. It seems that wherever parents are willing to spend money, there will be an organization there to create a blown up title and plastic trophy for the competitors.

1) There can be sports "just for the fun of it". Go ahead, I'm sure your community would love a volunteer to organize it. Oh, wait, you're travelling. I'm sure someone else will step in and take care of it.
2) Where's the value in theater? You practice for a couple months, do the show, and then it's done. I say that as a former theater geek. The "value" of the titles is working hard for something and seeing it through to completion. I'm guessing band members shouldn't practice to put on a good performance?

The way I see it, childhood is short and you only get one shot at it. I'm not willing to give my kids childhood over to to glitz and glamour of sports. Let them play and explore and build and day dream. Let them have the freedom to experience the broader world beyond the confines of three hour practices 6 days a week ad nauseum. But also, let them play ball in the sand lot with the neighborhood kids if they want.

And no one here (at least as far as I can tell) is saying they shouldn't do what they want. So why shouldn't the sports kids get to do what they want? Now, if a parent is signing a child up for an activity (whether sports, piano, band, theater, etc) and the child shows no interest in it, they shouldn't sign them up again. But if the kid wants to play sports, join the band, theater, whatever, where's the harm? Oh, and I remember daily, multi-hour practices when a theater show was getting ready to go on. I guess that's ok though.

 

[Colleen27]

Issue #2. After 7th grade, there are no more rec leagues. It's either travel or school. And you can't be on the school team if you don't travel on the off season. We could afford it financially, but don't see the value in it. Also, none of us (kids included) are willing to sacrifice everything else for sport. We love to travel when and where we decide to go. The kids have other activities that they would have to give up if they wanted to do just one sport (piano, band, theater, dating, working, hang out doing nothing, going places with friends). Currently, my oldest is on a three week student exchange trip over seas. Can't do that if you play sports.

Man, I'm glad it isn't like that here. It becomes hard to find rec sports in some team sports (basketball, football) starting in 7th grade when the school teams start. A few others drop off in high school (baseball, softball, soccer). But none of our high school teams are so competitive that making varsity requires playing travel in the "off season" - in fact, coaches are more likely to encourage cross-training in other sports over playing the primary sport year-round (most of the varsity football team runs track in the spring, for example). And there are JV, freshman, and intramural teams for kids who aren't ready for varsity. Plus some sports are available in a rec version even for high schoolers - tennis, track, swim, etc.

 

[mjkacmom]

Issue #1. Power stretching. I am seeing several people post that this is normal and common? The girl was screaming and crying to stop. People were holding her arms up and others were holding her legs while another pushed her into the splits. She was completely restrained on all four limbs and was screaming out in fear. That sounds like assault to me.

Issue #2. After 7th grade, there are no more rec leagues. It's either travel or school. And you can't be on the school team if you don't travel on the off season. We could afford it financially, but don't see the value in it. Also, none of us (kids included) are willing to sacrifice everything else for sport. We love to travel when and where we decide to go. The kids have other activities that they would have to give up if they wanted to do just one sport (piano, band, theater, dating, working, hang out doing nothing, going places with friends). Currently, my oldest is on a three week student exchange trip over seas. Can't do that if you play sports.

My point on issue #2 is that sports is either all or none. Gone are the days of rec league sports. Why can't there be sports for the fun of it, why must it be ultra competitive race to the top? I don't understand the point of working to the point of injury, and driving the kids to compete to the point of tears. I also don't see the value in the titles that are fought for. "Worlds", "Nationals", whatever. It seems that wherever parents are willing to spend money, there will be an organization there to create a blown up title and plastic trophy for the competitors.

The way I see it, childhood is short and you only get one shot at it. I'm not willing to give my kids childhood over to to glitz and glamour of sports. Let them play and explore and build and day dream. Let them have the freedom to experience the broader world beyond the confines of three hour practices 6 days a week ad nauseum. But also, let them play ball in the sand lot with the neighborhood kids if they want.

What? Ds19 played soccer all through high school (started travel, at 8). He did every high school musical, and sang in the top choir. He even rowed crew one season, had a couple of seasons of winter track, worked, and dated, and spent a lot of time with friends (he’s a social guy).

Dd16 runs xc and track, every day. She is a competitive dancer, almost every night, and does compete at nationals (there is only one in the organization per year, thousands of dancers, she dances against around 150 dancers, there is one winner), and the one Worlds (only about 1% of dancers make it to this level) against closer to 200 dancers (one winner). She can’t work, but has a boyfriend, and an active social life. And she always does the high school musical.

Ds14 plays high school and club soccer, will play high school basketball in the winter. Again, a very active social life.

Dd14 plays high school soccer, will do winter track, spring track plus spring soccer. She has the same dance experience as her sister (so glad they got to travel overseas so many times), and a very active social life. She will be going out for the musical.

The team bonding, the time management skills that develop, not to mention being in great physical shape, being able to run 6 or so miles easily, has been a fantastic experience for my kids.

 

[soccerdad72]

I suppose it depends on your town, but around us, there are always options for recreation level sports of all kinds. Our city has rec soccer, baseball/softball and basketball (off the top of my head) for ages all the way up through high school.

I do, however, think the days of 'going to the sandlot' are over. Kids may get together at someone's house and play basketball or something like that, but nobody's meeting up at a baseball field for a pickup game (like when I was a kid). Unfortunately, most 'sandlot' fields are gone these days - all the fields are for team use only and only if approved by the city.