Can any one give me some advice, in 1987 I was cautioned in the U.K. for criminal damage at the age of 17 although this did not stop me becoming a special constable, will this stop me gaining entry to the U.S.A? . I have been granted entry twice before but I must admit that I am a bit worried now as we are travelling in two weeks on a family holiday.
Entry to the USA with a 15year old caution
- Thread starter parry49
- Start date
steve404
Earning My Ears
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- Feb 5, 2004
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- 73
Parry, form the US embassy site;
'Under United States visa law people who have been arrested are required to declare the arrest when applying for a visa. If the arrest resulted in a conviction, the individual may be permanently ineligible to receive a visa. In order to travel, a waiver of the permanent ineligibility is required. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to United States visa law. Therefore, even travelers with a spent conviction are required to declare the arrest and/or conviction.
Court records, usually called a "Memorandum of Conviction" (MOC) in Great Britain and Certificates of Conviction in Northern Ireland are obtained from the clerk of the court(s) in which the individual was tried. Such court records must show the nature of the offense(s) committed, the section(s) of law contravened and the actual penalty imposed. If the MOC or Certificate of Conviction is not available from the court in which the individual was tried, he or she can still obtain the court record(s) from a division of New Scotland Yard at the address below, if convicted in the Great Britain, or the Royal Ulster Constabulary station, if convicted in Northern Ireland. In the event that the memorandum of conviction, or Certificate of Conviction is unavailable, the applicant MUST obtain a letter so stating from the Clerk of the Court.
National Identification Service
Subject Access Office
Room 331, New Scotland Yard
Broadway, London SW1 0BG
Tel: 020-7230-2958'
Reading this it appears that if you have a 'conviction' then you should declare it as the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to US law, whether or not a 'caution' counts as a conviction is probably something only known to the US Embassy, I think you would be best contacting them to make sure!!
From a bobby who should know probably??
Steve.......................
'Under United States visa law people who have been arrested are required to declare the arrest when applying for a visa. If the arrest resulted in a conviction, the individual may be permanently ineligible to receive a visa. In order to travel, a waiver of the permanent ineligibility is required. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to United States visa law. Therefore, even travelers with a spent conviction are required to declare the arrest and/or conviction.
Court records, usually called a "Memorandum of Conviction" (MOC) in Great Britain and Certificates of Conviction in Northern Ireland are obtained from the clerk of the court(s) in which the individual was tried. Such court records must show the nature of the offense(s) committed, the section(s) of law contravened and the actual penalty imposed. If the MOC or Certificate of Conviction is not available from the court in which the individual was tried, he or she can still obtain the court record(s) from a division of New Scotland Yard at the address below, if convicted in the Great Britain, or the Royal Ulster Constabulary station, if convicted in Northern Ireland. In the event that the memorandum of conviction, or Certificate of Conviction is unavailable, the applicant MUST obtain a letter so stating from the Clerk of the Court.
National Identification Service
Subject Access Office
Room 331, New Scotland Yard
Broadway, London SW1 0BG
Tel: 020-7230-2958'
Reading this it appears that if you have a 'conviction' then you should declare it as the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to US law, whether or not a 'caution' counts as a conviction is probably something only known to the US Embassy, I think you would be best contacting them to make sure!!
From a bobby who should know probably??
Steve.......................
AlanUK
<font color=blue>UK Trip Planning & Trip Reports M
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2004
- Messages
- 2,936
Hi Parry,
I think you should take Steve's advice and contact the US Embassy ASAP.
From reading the 'rules' that Steve has posted the ineligiblity applies even if you have been arrested
The danger you face is that if you do manage to gain access to the US using a visa waiver now and have ticked all the 'No' boxes in order to do so, you may get discovered at a later date and then permanently excluded for entering the country illegally.
Best to find out now and see what action might need to be taken.
Good luck.
Alan.
I think you should take Steve's advice and contact the US Embassy ASAP.
From reading the 'rules' that Steve has posted the ineligiblity applies even if you have been arrested
The danger you face is that if you do manage to gain access to the US using a visa waiver now and have ticked all the 'No' boxes in order to do so, you may get discovered at a later date and then permanently excluded for entering the country illegally.
Best to find out now and see what action might need to be taken.
Good luck.
Alan.
AlanUK
<font color=blue>UK Trip Planning & Trip Reports M
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2004
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- 2,936
Just a thought, but you could apply to the police for a look at your records under the Data Protection act. Not sure how long the results would take to come back, but it would give you a good idea of what information is held on file.
alexandra uk
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2002
- Messages
- 892
Does anyone know exactly what info goes on to these new machine readable passports ?
If it does include criminal convictions the info will come up when they're scanned.
Say someones conviction isn't spent for another X amount of years, but they already have a new machine readable passport, will the U.S then have the information
If it does include criminal convictions the info will come up when they're scanned.
Say someones conviction isn't spent for another X amount of years, but they already have a new machine readable passport, will the U.S then have the information
Hi,
Heres what I know.
The usa currently does not have records of people and their convictions.
My friend visited me 3 months ago here in Florida. He has a criminal conviction ( Community Service and a 5 year suspended sentance. He sailed through customs on the visa waiver programme. Whilst I do not agree with people lying on these forms, I have to say that with the huge amount of Brits flying into the Usa everyday,there have to be quite a few thathave been arrested or got into a scrape with the law along the way. So unless you are an escaped criminal wanted for terrorism or murder then I would not worry. All the machine readable passports contain are the same details that are on the passport anyway. Can you imagine the sheer amount of info the usa systems would have to contain if everybodys history were on their passports????.
I would go on holiday and have agreat time.
Heres what I know.
The usa currently does not have records of people and their convictions.
My friend visited me 3 months ago here in Florida. He has a criminal conviction ( Community Service and a 5 year suspended sentance. He sailed through customs on the visa waiver programme. Whilst I do not agree with people lying on these forms, I have to say that with the huge amount of Brits flying into the Usa everyday,there have to be quite a few thathave been arrested or got into a scrape with the law along the way. So unless you are an escaped criminal wanted for terrorism or murder then I would not worry. All the machine readable passports contain are the same details that are on the passport anyway. Can you imagine the sheer amount of info the usa systems would have to contain if everybodys history were on their passports????.
I would go on holiday and have agreat time.
AlanUK
<font color=blue>UK Trip Planning & Trip Reports M
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I'm not sure what information goes onto machine readable passports but it is important to remember that the rehabilitation of offenders act does not apply to US Visa regulations and so for this purpose an arrest or conviction is never 'spent'.
The limitation here is most likely to be one of access to the information. As evidenced in recent high profile cases even the different forces within our borders have difficulty sharing this type of information between each other.
The limitation here is most likely to be one of access to the information. As evidenced in recent high profile cases even the different forces within our borders have difficulty sharing this type of information between each other.
alexandra uk
DIS Veteran
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- Jul 14, 2002
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- 892
A friend of my brother in law went to Orlando and got pulled in for a conviction 21 years old. They let him through. It was only a minor incident when he was 18.
I couldn't belive it - How did they know about it ???
I don't think I would be willing to run the risk of booking and paying for a holiday to get to immigration, get pulled in and refused entry.
Imagine having to try to explain it to your kids
I couldn't belive it - How did they know about it ???
I don't think I would be willing to run the risk of booking and paying for a holiday to get to immigration, get pulled in and refused entry.
Imagine having to try to explain it to your kids
alanUk
You cannot apply for Police records under the DPA - they are exempt from this provision as far as I am aware.
Currently, the US Immigration Service does not have any access via the Home Office to criminal records - the DPA does prevent data leaving the EU unless the data protection regime in the destination country is equal to or exceeds the DPA. US data protection legislation does not come within a country mile of this provision.
However, UK Court records are public records and can therefore be obtained (on an individual basis) by anybody.
Others here are absolutely right that the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply top the US. Personally, I still have an indefinite visa in an old blue passport - the visa does not expire with the passport.
The machine readable section of your passport does not contain any data regarding convictions. You can read the data on your passport - its the bottom two lines on the page with your picture and it simply repeats the data above - it is in an OCR font so that it can also be read by machine
You cannot apply for Police records under the DPA - they are exempt from this provision as far as I am aware.
Currently, the US Immigration Service does not have any access via the Home Office to criminal records - the DPA does prevent data leaving the EU unless the data protection regime in the destination country is equal to or exceeds the DPA. US data protection legislation does not come within a country mile of this provision.
However, UK Court records are public records and can therefore be obtained (on an individual basis) by anybody.
Others here are absolutely right that the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply top the US. Personally, I still have an indefinite visa in an old blue passport - the visa does not expire with the passport.
The machine readable section of your passport does not contain any data regarding convictions. You can read the data on your passport - its the bottom two lines on the page with your picture and it simply repeats the data above - it is in an OCR font so that it can also be read by machine
alexandra uk
DIS Veteran
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- Messages
- 892
So why do people bother applying for visas ?
If the U.S immigration have no access to criminal records, then they have no way of finding out.
You could quite happily sail through on the visa waiver programme every year.
Personally, I wouldn't risk it.
I had to cancel my 2002 trip for this reason.
If the U.S immigration have no access to criminal records, then they have no way of finding out.
You could quite happily sail through on the visa waiver programme every year.
Personally, I wouldn't risk it.
I had to cancel my 2002 trip for this reason.
Van Helsing
My glass is half empty.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2004
- Messages
- 1,390
parry49 you don't need a visa
GENERAL CLASSES OF ALIENS INELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE VISAS AND INELIGIBLE FOR ADMISSION; WAIVERS OF INADMISSIBILLITY
I don't think your crime was of Moral Turpitude and as such you don't need a visa.
Further more as you were under 18 ( even if it was a crime of Moral Turpitude ) this Exception.-Clause would let you in
the crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age, and the crime was committed (and the alien released from any confinement to a prison or correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States.
If you ring the US embassy and qoute these 2 bits on info - i'm sure you'll here what hold on to i check
One thing i would do just incase is get a Court record if you can.
GENERAL CLASSES OF ALIENS INELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE VISAS AND INELIGIBLE FOR ADMISSION; WAIVERS OF INADMISSIBILLITY
I don't think your crime was of Moral Turpitude and as such you don't need a visa.
Further more as you were under 18 ( even if it was a crime of Moral Turpitude ) this Exception.-Clause would let you in
the crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age, and the crime was committed (and the alien released from any confinement to a prison or correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States.
If you ring the US embassy and qoute these 2 bits on info - i'm sure you'll here what hold on to i check
One thing i would do just incase is get a Court record if you can.
alexandra uk
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2002
- Messages
- 892
Does anyone know what a crime of Moral Turpitude is ?
AlanUK
<font color=blue>UK Trip Planning & Trip Reports M
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PatDavies
Under the DataProtection Act of 1998 you are entitled to apply to any organisation that holds information about you for a copy of that information. There are exceptions that apply to this where the information cannot be given if it would identify another individual, and in the case of law enforcement agencies where the information pertains the prevention or detection of a crime. For the purposes of an existing offence or caution this is unlikey to be the case. The Act does extend to the Police.
Van Helsing
The following comes from the USEmbassy in London website..
Whilst I am not disagreeing that a visa may not be required for entry, the information available on the Visa Waiver Programme about this issue would indicate that it would be good sense to check it out, rather than rely on an assumption.
Alexandra UK
A crime of moral turpitude is one which implies a stain on character as it is against good morals, which means it could be extended to include nearly every crime imaginable except minor traffic offences. It's a very difficult term to apply an exact definition to.
Under the DataProtection Act of 1998 you are entitled to apply to any organisation that holds information about you for a copy of that information. There are exceptions that apply to this where the information cannot be given if it would identify another individual, and in the case of law enforcement agencies where the information pertains the prevention or detection of a crime. For the purposes of an existing offence or caution this is unlikey to be the case. The Act does extend to the Police.
Van Helsing
The following comes from the USEmbassy in London website..
Whilst I am not disagreeing that a visa may not be required for entry, the information available on the Visa Waiver Programme about this issue would indicate that it would be good sense to check it out, rather than rely on an assumption.
Alexandra UK
A crime of moral turpitude is one which implies a stain on character as it is against good morals, which means it could be extended to include nearly every crime imaginable except minor traffic offences. It's a very difficult term to apply an exact definition to.
*Flower*
Needs to Win the Lottery!!
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- 3,663
This was posted on the DIBB by 'westhamman'
question on Disboards site
Like quite a few people I presume I look at both this and Disboards site. For some reason I cannot enter posts on Disboard despite being registered. There is a entry on there at moment in UK planning where Parry 49 is enquiring about a caution he recieved in 1988 or somewhere about that time. he wants to know if he can still use Visa Waiver. The answer to his question is Yes he can, as long as all he recieved is a Caution. Cautions now called reprimands and warnings are not and were convictions. You have to appear in Court to recieve a conviction as a youth. I have worked in a Youth Offending Team for last 5-years. If somebody could put reply onto Disboard site it may put his mind at rest.
Dave
I hope that this helps........
question on Disboards site
Like quite a few people I presume I look at both this and Disboards site. For some reason I cannot enter posts on Disboard despite being registered. There is a entry on there at moment in UK planning where Parry 49 is enquiring about a caution he recieved in 1988 or somewhere about that time. he wants to know if he can still use Visa Waiver. The answer to his question is Yes he can, as long as all he recieved is a Caution. Cautions now called reprimands and warnings are not and were convictions. You have to appear in Court to recieve a conviction as a youth. I have worked in a Youth Offending Team for last 5-years. If somebody could put reply onto Disboard site it may put his mind at rest.
Dave
I hope that this helps........
Van Helsing
My glass is half empty.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2004
- Messages
- 1,390
alexandra uk here you go
Crimes Involving Moral Turpitude." This list is not exclusive and DAOs will consult with Service counsel for more in-depth information.
Crimes Against The Person
Murder/Intentional Homicide
Voluntary Manslaughter
Homicide by Reckless Conduct
Involuntary Manslaughter w/ Reckless Disregard
Attempted Murder
Kidnapping Mayhem
Assault or Attempted Murder Upon Government Officers
Carrying a Concealed Weapon w/ Intent to Use Against the Person of Another
Assault w/ a Deadly Weapon
Assault w/ Weapon Likely to Produce Bodily Harm
Interfering w/ a Law Enforcement Officer
w/ Use of Deadly Force
Attempting to Obstruct/Impede the Progress
of Justice
Aggravated Assault Against a Peace Officer
Crimes Against Property
Attempted Arson
Blackmail/Extortion
Forgery
Uttering a Forged Instrument/Forged Prescription
Making False Statements of Financial Condition
Robbers'
Embezzlement
Larceny/Theft
Grand theft
Petty Theft
Receiving Stolen Property
Concealing Assets in Bankruptcy
Encumbering Mortgaged Property w/ Intent to Defraud
Fraudulently Issuing Check w/ Insufficient Funds
Fraudulently Issuing Worthless Check
Illegal use of ATM or Credit Card
Passing Forged Instrument
Attempted Fraud
Using Mails to Defraud
Making False Statements in Acquisition of Firearm
Securities Fraud
Welfare Fraud
Transporting Stolen Property
Obtaining Money by False Pretenses
Bribery
Malicious Trespass
Sexual and Family Crimes
Assault w/ Intent to Commit Abortion
Attempted Assault w/ Intent to Commit Carnal Abuse
Statutory Rape/Rape
Indecent Assault/Sexual Battery
Adultery
Bigamy
Prostitution
Sodomy
Gross Indecency
Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor/Sexual Acts
Taking Indecent Liberties w/ a Child
Incest
Crimes Against the Government
Falsely Issuing a Narcotic Prescription
Offering a Bribe
Making, Passing, or Possessing Counterfeit Coins
Conspiracy to Violate IRS Laws
Securities Fraud
Counterfeiting
Smuggling Merchandise
Impersonating Federal Officer
False Statements/Firearm
False Statements or Entries
Harboring a Fugitive
Using False Names & Addresses to Violate Postal Laws
Uttering/Selling False/Counterfeit Immigration Documents
False Statements to Obtain a Passport
False Statements in LPR Application
Perjury
Theft from U.S. Mail
Taking Kickbacks
Receiving Funds by False Statements
Trafficking in Narcotics
Failing to Report Income
Union Official Unlawfully Accepting a Loan
Kickbacks on Government Contracts
False Statements/Selective Service
Falsely Representing Social Security Number
False Statements/Unemployment Benefits
Crimes Involving Moral Turpitude." This list is not exclusive and DAOs will consult with Service counsel for more in-depth information.
Crimes Against The Person
Murder/Intentional Homicide
Voluntary Manslaughter
Homicide by Reckless Conduct
Involuntary Manslaughter w/ Reckless Disregard
Attempted Murder
Kidnapping Mayhem
Assault or Attempted Murder Upon Government Officers
Carrying a Concealed Weapon w/ Intent to Use Against the Person of Another
Assault w/ a Deadly Weapon
Assault w/ Weapon Likely to Produce Bodily Harm
Interfering w/ a Law Enforcement Officer
w/ Use of Deadly Force
Attempting to Obstruct/Impede the Progress
of Justice
Aggravated Assault Against a Peace Officer
Crimes Against Property
Attempted Arson
Blackmail/Extortion
Forgery
Uttering a Forged Instrument/Forged Prescription
Making False Statements of Financial Condition
Robbers'
Embezzlement
Larceny/Theft
Grand theft
Petty Theft
Receiving Stolen Property
Concealing Assets in Bankruptcy
Encumbering Mortgaged Property w/ Intent to Defraud
Fraudulently Issuing Check w/ Insufficient Funds
Fraudulently Issuing Worthless Check
Illegal use of ATM or Credit Card
Passing Forged Instrument
Attempted Fraud
Using Mails to Defraud
Making False Statements in Acquisition of Firearm
Securities Fraud
Welfare Fraud
Transporting Stolen Property
Obtaining Money by False Pretenses
Bribery
Malicious Trespass
Sexual and Family Crimes
Assault w/ Intent to Commit Abortion
Attempted Assault w/ Intent to Commit Carnal Abuse
Statutory Rape/Rape
Indecent Assault/Sexual Battery
Adultery
Bigamy
Prostitution
Sodomy
Gross Indecency
Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor/Sexual Acts
Taking Indecent Liberties w/ a Child
Incest
Crimes Against the Government
Falsely Issuing a Narcotic Prescription
Offering a Bribe
Making, Passing, or Possessing Counterfeit Coins
Conspiracy to Violate IRS Laws
Securities Fraud
Counterfeiting
Smuggling Merchandise
Impersonating Federal Officer
False Statements/Firearm
False Statements or Entries
Harboring a Fugitive
Using False Names & Addresses to Violate Postal Laws
Uttering/Selling False/Counterfeit Immigration Documents
False Statements to Obtain a Passport
False Statements in LPR Application
Perjury
Theft from U.S. Mail
Taking Kickbacks
Receiving Funds by False Statements
Trafficking in Narcotics
Failing to Report Income
Union Official Unlawfully Accepting a Loan
Kickbacks on Government Contracts
False Statements/Selective Service
Falsely Representing Social Security Number
False Statements/Unemployment Benefits
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