DVC and other TShare owners

[nathandunn]

Hey,
I've read on some post (and cant find it) that some people own timeshare and other places across the country and regret not just owning DVC.

If anyone is interested in contacting me about renting at their 'other' place, please do so. If someone can tell me where I can find a place to rent other property I would be very appreciative. Places like Bahama and Mexico.

Thanks,
nathan

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

If someone can tell me where I can find a place to rent other property I would be very appreciative. Places like Bahama and Mexico.

Try the Timeshare Users Group (TUG). Here's a Link.

HBC

 

[garytam]

You can also try the redweek at www.redweeks.com. You will have to joint their membership ($) in order to get the rental detail.

 

[Zmsksirt]

Hey,
I've read on some post (and cant find it) that some people own timeshare and other places across the country and regret not just owning DVC.

If anyone is interested in contacting me about renting at their 'other' place, please do so. If someone can tell me where I can find a place to rent other property I would be very appreciative. Places like Bahama and Mexico.

Thanks,
nathan

Actually, it's just the opposite. With DVC, you do not own anything. You have a use lease on the property. With most other timeshares, you actually own them and there is no expiration date. Most savy people stay away from the DVC.

 

[JimC]

Actually, it's just the opposite. With DVC, you do not own anything. You have a use lease on the property. With most other timeshares, you actually own them and there is no expiration date. Most savy people stay away from the DVC.

Not exactly. DVC memberships are deeded real estate interests that can be sold, willed or gifted during the term of the membership (subject to ROFR). They are actually a hybrid of traditional RTU and deeded timeshares which you are describing.

 

[Zmsksirt]

Not exactly. DVC memberships are deeded real estate interests that can be sold, willed or gifted during the term of the membership (subject to ROFR). They are actually a hybrid of traditional RTU and deeded timeshares which you are describing.

You're being disingenuous. When DVC first started selling their timeshares, no deeds existed. This put off a lot of potential buyers. To allay those fears, Disney decided to issue a "deed" of your real estate interest (not ownership). The "deed" is recorded with the county appraisers office. If you examine any of the "deeds" you will notice that they all refer to "lease" owners. There is no reference to property ownership.

The DVC is a club and a club has members. Many people interested in the DVC objected to be members. They wanted to be owners. So, the DVC rewrote the contracts and issued recorded "deeds" to basically fool people into the belief that they actually owned property. In reality, they simply have a lease.

Now, who (in their right mind) is going to pay full price for a 60 year lease that is 20 years spent? As time marches on, those leases depreciate at a rapid pace. ROFR can't prop up the market forever. Of course, it will be a few years before we hit the 20 year mark, but even now the OKW resale's are starting to slide.

Having lived in Florida for over 30 years, I have first hand knowledge of the property values. DVC is designed for out of state guests. Locals don't fool around with those deals. It's too easy to pick up distressed DVC points for rental.

Residents of Florida certainly appreciate the "bed tax" money that you folks provide. We love tourists but just don't get too wrapped up in your DVC "deed".

 

[TammyAlphabet]

Zmskirt--Wow! There seems to be some animosity there. I seem to remember that when I was at DVC last I heard some nonowners who were renting points say some of the same things. I remember one lady commenting that if Disney thought that they were going to get 15,000 out of her when she can rent points, they must be mad.

Personnally, I would MUCH rather have a leasehold on a Disney property than to "own" a perpetually deeded timeshare at any of the nonDisney properties that are out there. In my opinion, the other Orlando timeshare options are cheaper than buying Disney points for a reason. And yes, the price of points will go down as they get closer to their expiration date. Other timeshare lose their value over time too, even though they don't expire. However, since I am going to be getting closer to my own "expiration" date as my membership ages, I am not really all that concerned with the leasehold vs. ownership issue.

I guess to each his own.

 

[caverill]

WOW...I agree...ZMSkirt really doesn't think much of DVC.

Maybe I am not savy enough to know the difference, but the money I have saved on deluxe on-site accommodations has been quite real.

I am not worried about the fact that my DVC membership expires when I am 82, since I will have gotten "value" from it (More then cars I will have paid much more for).

Everyone needs to make the decision if DVC (or any other TS) is the right thing for them. I would guess that of the 100,000 members of DVC, at least some of them are happy with the decision they made and do consider themselves "savy" buyers.

 

[boatboatboat]

I think Zmsksirt's main point is that when you can rent for 10 dollars per point it makes no sense to buy. Renting at 10 is much less costly then owning and "buying in" and paying dues.

Zmsksirt is the smart one. He keeps his investment to invest and obtain the returns on that investment, and simply pays us 10 bucks per point.

further proof........

 

[spiceycat]

when the finally 10 years are here - if WDW is still going great - guess what those prices won't be down. Instead WDW will buying back the contracts and RENTING out the villa.... they are very, very good at doing this. and they would before they let anyone stay onsite without a major investment....

now if WDW is having hard times - I don't know - I suspect they will give current owners a deal - but who knows what will happen....

I have meet these same people on tug - they have been claiming for YEARS that DVC is going down hill... Is overcharging, too expensive, too..... but with DVC I got the money back I invested in DVC - with the other timeshare I haven't and with Westgate I won't. Not when Westgate is offering to the public (just not current Westgate owners) a 2-bedroom for $49 a night - when they are charging me $631 in maintence fees for a week. NOT RIGHT!!!

with Landmark I will by next year. (but I got a great deal on it)

My South Africian has also gotten my investment back. (got it before the prices went up on these things)

to look for rentals also try

www.myresortnetwork.com
www.skyauction.com - not as many since RCI is being sued over this site
www.condodirect.com - this is II version but they are NOT trying to under price the resorts.

also on the tug - look in the classified ads and on the BBS board in the last minute rentals. also look in the owners referrel I posted a link
http://www.tug2.net/ads/mpromo.shtml

 

[Chuck S]

Here I am, 14 years of owning and using DVC. I can sell my points for $10,000+ more than I paid. How many other timeshare owners can say that? That $10K more than pays for the maintenance fees during those years...so basically my stays were free. Explain how that is dumb? Also explain why I'd want to own a traditional deeded timeshare when after 50 years, the resort would more than likely need to be torn down and rebuilt anyway with a special accessment. Would you want to saddle our heirs with that? Wih DVC, yes, it will be worth less as the years drag on, meaning basically it would be worth nothing to my heirs. But, with a traditional timeshare, not only would your heirs inherit something with little resale value, they'd also be saddled with whatever the cost would be to completey rebuild/rehab the place.

 

[Zmsksirt]

Zmskirt--Wow! There seems to be some animosity there. I seem to remember that when I was at DVC last I heard some nonowners who were renting points say some of the same things. I remember one lady commenting that if Disney thought that they were going to get 15,000 out of her when she can rent points, they must be mad.

No, I have no animosity toward people that lease DVC. What bothers me is this constant talk of "ownership". You don't own squat with the DVD. Yet, in your post, you refer to "nonowners". Heck, you're a non-owner. You don't own anything.

You have a very expensive timeshare lease. It depreciates over time. It is not an investment. Contrary to comments from a previous poster, you will not make money from a DVC lease no matter how hard you might try. Nor will you save money over an extended period of WDW trips with the DVC.

I have visited WDW about 3 times a year during the past 30 years. Resort discounts abound both onsite and offsite. I've rented DVC points several times and never have I paid even close to $10.00 per point. Sorry, but there are just too many distressed points.

Lots of people purchase the DVC with the best of intentions, but then things fall apart. They lose their job, divorce or come to the belated conclusion that the DVC is not a good deal. So, they have to bank points, rent points or sell and the DVC expects those problems and relishes the many turnovers! Frankly, this site is not a good place to look for or rent DVC points. I understand why people desire to pump up the price of their points, but savvy renters don't fall for that $10.00 per point nonsense.

I think we just need to be honest about the DVC. Folks that assert they have saved money via their DVC leases apparently don't check for or understand resort pricing and availability. That is why I mentioned that out of state guests are most likely to purchase a DVC lease rather than a higher quality and lower cost option.

Now, if you are willing to purchase a very expensive, pre-purchased long term timeshare lease, then the DVC is your vehicle. I have no animosity toward you at all. As a matter of fact it's just the reverse. I really like DVC owners because I often get great rental deals from them as they discover they need to unload their membership.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Troll alert!

MG

 

[Chuck S]

Troll alert!

MG

Yep, especially since (s)he has his/her facts completely wrong about what the deed actually states. We do own a real estate interest in a specific building. Just not the land it sits upon.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Now, I wish I had the time to pick apart your post, because it is soooo easy to do. I do have time for one at the moment:

Having lived in Florida for over 30 years, I have first hand knowledge of the property values. DVC is designed for out of state guests. Locals don't fool around with those deals. It's too easy to pick up distressed DVC points for rental.

Hey Z, guess what state has the most DVC Members?!?!

MG

 

[Zmsksirt]

Yep, especially since (s)he has his/her facts completely wrong about what the deed actually states. We do own a real estate interest in a specific building. Just not the land it sits upon.

Thanks! You said is very well. You own "a real estate interest". That's a lease. It is not fee simple title. You don't own any property at all. Heck, even the DVC doesn't own the property. They lease from the Disney company. I just think we need to dispel these silly ownership rumors and false sales pitches.

 

[Chuck S]

But it isn't an uncommon thing. Many business lease the land their buildings are sitting on. In fact, I looked at an entire residential subdivision near WDW with a similar set up. You buy the house, but you don't own the land. You pay about $350 per month for the small parcel your house sits on. The subdivion maintains a community use building and pool/rec area for the subdivision. While it certainly isn't something I want to do with my permanent residence, I see nothing wrong with it for a timeshare. And you haven't addressed the issues with true deeded timeshares about having to rebuild outdated/antiquated structures at the expense of the owners. Plus the fact that very few traditional timeshares have any resale value. They depreciate faster than a new car...and yes, I realize DVC has artificial price support via ROFR and will eventually be of no value, but I'll have gotten plenty of use out of it by then to justify the cost. Saying you own a real estate interest is not a false sales pitch.

 

[jfulcer]

Thanks! You said is very well. You own "a real estate interest". That's a lease. It is not fee simple title. You don't own any property at all. Heck, even the DVC doesn't own the property. They lease from the Disney company. I just think we need to dispel these silly ownership rumors and false sales pitches.

You say potatoes, I say potatos. Who cares what it is called? It's really rather an immaterial point to argue. Whatever you want to call it, I know:

• At some X point in the future my lease/ownership/rental/whatever will expire and I will receive no more value in it.
• My lease/ownership/rental/whatever cost me MUCH more than a traditional time share would cost.
• Even though in X number of years in the future, my points will expire - that means for X years my family (and most likely my daughter's children) will enjoy something that I've paid for.
• Until most likely x-10 years, I can sell my DVC if I needed to and *make money*. My parents, who owned a timeshare that they suddenly found themselves unable to use anymore got literally taken to the cleaners trying to resell it. At x years from now, I could literally care less that it just 'ends' because I will have gotten my money's worth many times over.
• I can use my points anywhere, anytime, anyhow I want. Take a cruise? Sure! African Safari? Sure! Hawaian vacation? Sure? Grand Floridian stay as a wedding present? Sure! Stay at literally hundreds of high quality resorts across the nation? Sure! Trade out to stay at hundreds more other Timeshare resorts? Sure! Let me know of any other time shares that allow you that kind of flexibility that hold their value well and I'll look into being a member/owner/leasee there also!

You even go on to talk about 'distressed' DVC points for sale/rent. I would tend to think that because there are many, many more 'normal' timeshares out there, that you could find many many more distressed timeshares available. But that's just a guess.

I could go on. And on. But I really won't change your mind and you won't change mind. What you may not realize is the large majority of us DVC Owners aren't in it for an investment, or a way to make money. It's a way for us to vacation in style while we are still young enough to enjoy it.

We're all collectively glad that you have benefitted well from those distressed points. Score one more for happy DVC Vacationers, both member or non member.

 

[jfulcer]

Thanks! You said is very well. You own "a real estate interest". That's a lease. It is not fee simple title. You don't own any property at all. Heck, even the DVC doesn't own the property. They lease from the Disney company. I just think we need to dispel these silly ownership rumors and false sales pitches.

Chuck S stated what you stated, and what I understand of my ownership too. We own a part of one building. Maybe a light switch if we're lucky. Not the land, and not permanently. So we're on the same page?

 

[Zmsksirt]

I could go on. And on. But I really won't change your mind and you won't change mind. What you may not realize is the large majority of us DVC Owners aren't in it for an investment, or a way to make money. It's a way for us to vacation in style while we are still young enough to enjoy it.

You've hit the nail on the head! I agree with you. Youth, inexperience and money are the best friends of the DVC.