Does buying a 2042 expiring resort make sense? Help me reason this out.

[PolyRob]

By WLV, I assume you mean the Villas at Wilderness Lodge which are now know as the Boulder Ridge Villas at Wilderness Lodge or BRV. There are also the Copper Creek Villas and Cabins at Wilderness Lodge or CCV. I don't see BRV currently listed on the online add-on tool, but you could always ask a guide. Still, I wouldn't buy BRV direct either. CCV during one of the periodic flash sales could make some sense for direct points with direct benefits - when they offered it this past January, the cost of 150 CCV points was just about the same as 150 Poly points. It expires in 2068, but similar to the suggested plan above, you can just direct the contract be sold in your will. Your heirs are not required to inherit your timeshare contracts.

Emphasizing this expiration is actually after PVB in 2066 since CCV opened in 2017 and PVB opened in 2015. You actually got more years with a lower points chart for the same price

 

[Momtomouselover]

Thanks guys. Much to think about. My main reasoning was just not burdening anybody with the sale once I’m gone (presuming they don’t want the dues expense), and I just like the certainty of an end date. I do like the Poly a lot though.

 

[AKVKidani]

Thanks guys. Much to think about. My main reasoning was just not burdening anybody with the sale once I’m gone (presuming they don’t want the dues expense), and I just like the certainty of an end date. I do like the Poly a lot though.

I like the certainty of an end date as well, so I feel the same way.

 

[jolynne28]

Thanks guys. Much to think about. My main reasoning was just not burdening anybody with the sale once I’m gone (presuming they don’t want the dues expense), and I just like the certainty of an end date. I do like the Poly a lot though.

I understand that, but in 2042 BWV/BCV/BRV will be worth zero. Poly will still have nearly 25 years left and have value.
Someone else can speak about the sale, but I don’t believe it will be the burden you’re assuming. If you really like Poly, then do that. Get what you like, not what you think will be easiest for your family. You could easily decide to sell it at some point, and Poly will probably give you the highest return.

 

[airjay75]

I like the certainty of an end date as well, so I feel the same way.

I understand that, but in 2042 BWV/BCV/BRV will be worth zero. Poly will still have nearly 25 years left and have value.
Someone else can speak about the sale, but I don’t believe it will be the burden you’re assuming. If you really like Poly, then do that. Get what you like, not what you think will be easiest for your family. You could easily decide to sell it at some point, and Poly will probably give you the highest return.

It is really tempting when you're first getting into DVC to think about the contract end date and how old you'll be at various end dates and think, well, I'll be done by then anyways, so maybe the earlier end date is better.

But, at least until this point, every DVC contract, even the restricted resorts, continue to command value on the resale market because there is still value to be had from the years remaining on contracts. I think it's common for many timeshares for the dues to eventually surpass the cash/rental rental rates and become worthless. That simply hasn't happened with DVC. It could, but it hasn't to date. So long as that remains true, you'll be able to exit DVC whenever you want and actually get some of the upfront money you paid back.

 

[juliebee]

I originally bought a 2042 resort because we considered that expiration date to be about perfect for us. But when we bought our next contract we decided to buy where we wanted to stay at a currently available direct resort.
If passing on the contract after your passing is a concern, frankly if the heirs don’t pay the dues and don’t sell the contract, Disney will take back the contract.

 

[VGCgroupie]

The most appealing aspect of a 2042 resort is the low low point chart.

 

[Flash_Sloth]

The most appealing aspect of a 2042 resort is the low low point chart.

And there is a little feeling of victory if you use points with lower annual dues such as VGF or Poly at a 2042 resort with a low point chart.

But if someone is using VB or OKW points at VGF or Poly Tower, that's an expensive trip with respect to the dues and the points required.

 

[Momtomouselover]

I originally bought a 2042 resort because we considered that expiration date to be about perfect for us. But when we bought our next contract we decided to buy where we wanted to stay at a currently available direct resort.
If passing on the contract after your passing is a concern, frankly if the heirs don’t pay the dues and don’t sell the contract, Disney will take back the contract.

So if you buy a contract without financing and don’t put your heirs names on it they can refuse to pay the dues? I guess I didn’t know if the property would just be reclaimed by Disney or would they force the dues on the estate. Not sure how that work given that a calculation of future dues would be near impossible. I guess I could contact my attorney but that alone may result in a bill

 

[juliebee]

So if you buy a contract without financing and don’t put your heirs names on it they can refuse to pay the dues? I guess I didn’t know if the property would just be reclaimed by Disney or would they force the dues on the estate. Not sure how that work given that a calculation of future dues would be near impossible. I guess I could contact my attorney but that alone may result in a bill

If an heir disclaims the inheritance, they generally wouldn't become the owner or be personally responsible for future dues. The estate (through the executor) would then need to determine what to do with the contract—sell it, transfer it to another beneficiary, or, if no one takes ownership and the dues aren't paid, it could ultimately end up in foreclosure. This is talking about a paid off contract. The foreclosure would be issued against the estate, not the heirs personally. Since a paid-off DVC contract has resale value, the better financial choice is usually for the executor to sell the contract if the heirs do not want it, rather than have it go into foreclosure. But if no heirs wants it, the dues aren't paid, etc--- the contract itself is basically the collateral (against the dues) and DVC will take it back via foreclosure- or it could get sold in the foreclosure market, which I'm not familiar with.

For my own situation, my adult kids probably won't want the DVC contracts. I need to write up info for them on what their choices are with the contract. I'll be including websites that sell DVC contracts and probably a link to this board, so they can ask questions here on how to sell or get guidance on how to navigate the DVC system if they keep it.

 

[vakamalua]

Our adult daughter definitely doesn't want our DVC. We are tired of paying the increasing maintenance fee & enjoying the Disney experiences far less; it's on the resale market!

 

[Flash_Sloth]

Our adult daughter definitely doesn't want our DVC. We are tired of paying the increasing maintenance fee & enjoying the Disney experiences far less; it's on the resale market!

That's one of the beauties of DVC contracts that still have a fair number of years left on them. They still have a good value on the resale market, and you get to decide when you're done with it. Yes, there is a little bit of a hassle with selling a contract, but when it does sell, that is $ that goes into your pocket.

But if it is 12 years from now, and someone owning a 2042 resort passes away, there would be only about 3 years of points left on that contract. For the estate / inheriting individuals, that would be a lot more difficult to sell on the resale market than a different resort that has 15+ years left.

 

[Brian Noble]

It wouldn't be that much more difficult---as long as it is priced correctly. On the other hand, it would presumably have to be priced a fair bit lower than the longer-dated contract.

 

[DiSM]

Full disclosure, I only own resale, but as someone looking to buy direct for the benefits, if I were in your situation and was not looking to pass my contract to kids, I would buy Poly and call it a day. You'll lose a lot less when the time comes to sell your contract because it's the only active resort for sale without resale restrictions.

I can't speak to any incentives on resorts that aren't actively in sales, but from my understanding, the best price per point comes at a higher point purchase. I believe someone posted the current OKW incentives on a post I made and for 150 pts it was $195ish a point. Poly will hold it's resale value much more that OKW, so IMO it makes more sense for you. Unless you hate Poly and are looking for the 11 month booking window at a specific resort.

hi, i know this is not a recent post but do have a question... when you state that Poly is the only active resort for sale without resale restrictions, what does that mean exactly?

 

[PolyRob]

hi, i know this is not a recent post but do have a question... when you state that Poly is the only active resort for sale without resale restrictions, what does that mean exactly?

Resale restricted resorts are the resorts that opened after 2019, including Disney's Riviera Resort, The Villas at Disneyland Hotel, The Cabins at Disney's Fort Wilderness Resort, and the future Lakeshore Lodge.

While Big Pine Key was added to The Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa and Island Tower was added to Polynesian Villas & Bungalows, they were additions to existing condominium associations rather than brand new DVC resorts. Because of that, they kept the original condominium association expirations and are not resale restricted.

If you buy a resale restricted resort, once you sell it, the resale buyer can only use those points at that specific resort. They cannot trade into the other DVC resorts. In contrast, the original fourteen resorts (Old Key West through Copper Creek Villas & Cabins) can all trade among one another when purchased on the resale market. Since Polynesian Villas & Bungalows is one of those original fourteen resorts, resale Poly points can still be used at any of those resorts. That's what makes it unique among the WDW resorts currently in active sales.

Aulani is also unrestricted and still actively sold by Disney, but that's Hawaii.

 

[skier_pete]

I think buying a direct contract at a 2042 resort is a terrible idea.

Think about it this way - let's take dues out of the equation completely as are within 10% of eachother either way.

Let's say you buy a 200 point contract direct at Boardwalk versus direct at Riviera in 2026. Riviera is $243 - $14 incentive = $229 per point. Boardwalk direct is $275 per point with no incentives.

Your upfront cost is $45800 versus $55000.

Now consider where you will be at in 16 years in 2042. Your Boardwalk contract is now worth ZERO. Your Riviera contract, worse case, is probably worth $140 per point in sixteen years, and that's conservative. That means in one case you (or your family) can sell the contract for $28000, in the other scenario you get nothing.

So now your cost of the contract over sixteen years for Boardwalk is $55000, while your cost of the Riviera contract is $17800. This means the Boardwalk contract cost you $37,200 MORE over 16 years, or you are paying an extra $2325 PER YEAR for your Boardwalk vacation versus RIVIERA vacation. (Or you could've bought an extra 150 points at Riviera!)

Again, we are ignoring maintenance fees but the different in MF right now are $9.67-$9.46 or 21 cents per point less at Riviera, or $42 a year. When you compare $42 to $2325 it's negligible. And if anything Boardwalk dues will likely rise faster.

So yeah, don't buy a 2042 direct. Don't in fact by anything short of 2060 direct IMO.

 

[WilCal]

I think buying a direct contract at a 2042 resort is a terrible idea.

1000%. Even resale only makes sense in unique situations.

Think about it this way - let's take dues out of the equation completely as are within 10% of eachother either way.

With the lower point values required for comparable room types, the higher price at OKW brings it back below average.

We are new buyers with a 100 point contract and will prob focus on 4 night studio stays. For October, the average annual maintenance across all DVC resorts was $690.74. BWV was $580, OKW was $672 (note: below average), BRV was $722, and BCV was $745.

Now consider where you will be at in 16 years in 2042. Your Boardwalk contract is now worth ZERO. Your Riviera contract, worse case, is probably worth $140 per point in sixteen years, and that's conservative. That means in one case you (or your family) can sell the contract for $28000, in the other scenario you get nothing.

So now your cost of the contract over sixteen years for Boardwalk is $55000, while your cost of the Riviera contract is $17800. This means the Boardwalk contract cost you $37,200 MORE over 16 years, or you are paying an extra $2325 PER YEAR for your Boardwalk vacation versus RIVIERA vacation. (Or you could've bought an extra 150 points at Riviera!)

I saw the same thing as well, and honestly the extremely strong resale prices of the 2042 expiration quelled my fears at what these other DVC contracts with longer terms will be worth in the future.

Much like a car, what it actually cost you is (purchase price) - (selling price).

I've seen breakeven calculations at the 8-10 year marks for a lot of contracts, so these prices at BCV and BWV are going to have to start dipping because we are a few years away from it being cheaper to just book the hotel room.

If you assume that you are going to get 100% of your money back out of the non 2042 contracts (I really don't think that is outlandish based on current 2042 expiration prices) then this is what I calculated to be the price per night of a 4 night studio stay in October over a weekend. It is basically just maintenance for the non 42s and maintenance plus linear point deprecation for the 42s:



You can see how much of a deal SSR is and also what pushed us to CCV. It only makes to buy a 42 if that resort is a deal breaker, or if you are grabbing oodles of cheap OKW 42 points and using them at 7 months in other locations.

 

[Pennstate6411]

Honestly - depends on the break even point … if you are buying a certain number of points and you know how many times you plan on staying for that time frame it becomes pure math- purchase price plus yearly maintenance… We started w resale 2042- if we love it we buy more and extend at another resort… if we don’t , maintenance fees are cut off in 15 years and we don’t have to worry about selling etc …

We bought at BRV which has much lower price per point than say BWV and BCV… how those 2 can still sell for what they sell at is beyond insane

I know they say they expire in 2042 and everyone should assume they do, but that said … you have to wonder if own at a 2042 resort if you will get an extension offer at some point- the reason I think this is because that is ALOT of dues totally wiped from the ledgers, no guaranteed maintenance fees or park spending restaurant spending etc … to have as many expire in 42 as there is I absolutely could see DVC slowly adding 5 to 10 years to keep a few people and limit the drop off of income from those resorts - maybe wishful thinking but the money lost if they all go dark Jan 42 is an actual large amount of money

 

[Sandisw]

Honestly - depends on the break even point … if you are buying a certain number of points and you know how many times you plan on staying for that time frame it becomes pure math- purchase price plus yearly maintenance… We started w resale 2042- if we love it we buy more and extend at another resort… if we don’t , maintenance fees are cut off in 15 years and we don’t have to worry about selling etc …

We bought at BRV which has much lower price per point than say BWV and BCV… how those 2 can still sell for what they sell at is beyond insane

I know they say they expire in 2042 and everyone should assume they do, but that said … you have to wonder if own at a 2042 resort if you will get an extension offer at some point- the reason I think this is because that is ALOT of dues totally wiped from the ledgers, no guaranteed maintenance fees or park spending restaurant spending etc … to have as many expire in 42 as there is I absolutely could see DVC slowly adding 5 to 10 years to keep a few people and limit the drop off of income from those resorts - maybe wishful thinking but the money lost if they all go dark Jan 42 is an actual large amount of money

They don’t have to go dark though. DVD can roll them right into the trust and create a special exchange program to allow direct points to trade to some, while they renovate others to sell new.

Basically, expanding the trades people do for regular Disney resorts.

I bet even with a raise in the charts, they’d remain popular for 7 month bookings.

 

[Pennstate6411]

They don’t have to go dark though. DVD can roll them right into the trust and create a special exchange program to allow direct points to trade to some, while they renovate others to sell new.

Basically, expanding the trades people do for regular Disney resorts.

I bet even with a raise in the charts, they’d remain popular for 7 month bookings.

They still lose out on a ton of maintenance fees … I feel like there’s gonna be an extension offer of some sort