Disneys bus pollution

mattpatton

Earning My Ears
Joined
Feb 16, 2003
Messages
28
When I went to disney I saw a few disney busses go past us and there was black smoke coming from there exsust pipes.And the made me feel sick.I think they should work on some of there busses.:eek:
 
The busses are deisel. Deisel engines send out carbon DIOXIDE (the same thing PEOPLE do!) not carbon MONOXIDE (which cars do). Both bus (deisel) and car engines also emit particulates. The difference being the size of these. With deisel engines, the particulates are larger than cars (gas) by about ten to one. This is why they are more visable. But they are also less dangerous. The small particulate matter that cars emit might be invidible, but they are far more damaging to the inner lining of the lung because they are small enough to imbed themselves.

Anne
 
Disney currently has three types of engines used in our buses.

The most commonly found engine in our RTS bus is the Detroit Diesel 6v92 engine. (183 buses) It's a 6-cylinder turbocharged 2 stroke engine, which means that it's typically harder to keep it a low emission engine. Typically after 100,000 miles, the bus tends to blow smoke as you saw. Buses equipped with a DDEC automatically sense this, and adjust accordingly (in theory) to keep the bus from smoking. Of course, this is at the expense of acceleration. Believe me, Disney is working major overtime to re-tune these engines, and the amount of smokers we have has dramatically decreased. One other thing to note... about 35 of the 6v92's have upper exhausts. While this helps keep the exhaust away from the curbside, it also makes the exhaust a more visible blacker color.

10 of our RTS buses are equipped with the low emission Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine. The S-50 engine is a 4-cylinder turbocharged 4 stroke engine. Because it's 4-stroke, it's quite a bit cleaner burning than the 6v92. However, because they have that top exhaust, they sometimes might emit a small puff of smoke as the turbo spools up. We have recently started to experiment with replacing the 6v92 with a Series 50 engine. Eventually, 10 more buses will be fitted with the S-50. (By the way... despite being a 4-banger... the S-50 has more torque than the 6v92, and can accelerate faster.)

In our 71 Low-Floor buses, we use the Detroit Diesel Series 40 engine. It's a 6-cylinder turbocharged Low Emission engine. These engines are 80% more cleaner burning than the 6v92. Combined with Ultra Low Sulfer diesel fuel, and soot filters, these engines can be just as clean burning as a Compressed Natural Gas engine bus.


One thing to note... each bus has the capability of taking 18 cars off the road every half hour. In a typical day, each bus probably takes off 200-300 cars from the road.
 
Originally posted by Chip 'n Dale Express
Disney currently has three types of (diesel) engines used in our buses.

Just curious:

Has Disney ever considered LPG (Liquid Propane or Butane) for its fleet? I run my own car on LPG, which is being promoted here in the UK as a cleaner alternative to either Gas or Diesel.

Compared to Gas, vehicles running on LPG emit around 12% less CO2 and around 30% less oxides of nitrogen (NOx), Hydrocarbons (HC) and carbon monoxide (CO). Compared to diesel there is around 90% less NOx, 1/50th of particulates and only 1/500th of the ultra fine particles.

LPG engines are also 50% quieter than diesel engines.

Is LPG not available in USA?

Andrew
 

Is LPG not available in USA?

UPS uses them in some of their trucks, but LPG is very expensive.

Anne,
While I am quite sure everything you stated was a fact, the fumes still make me (and I am sure others) sick to my stomach and gives me a wicked headache. Much more so from trucks on the highway and city busses (which are horrible) away from Disney.

I do trust Disney does everything possible to be enviornmentally friendly.
 
Originally posted by Andrew Bichard
Just curious:

Has Disney ever considered LPG (Liquid Propane or Butane) for its fleet? I run my own car on LPG, which is being promoted here in the UK as a cleaner alternative to either Gas or Diesel.

I'm not sure about LPG in specific, but I do know Disney has dabbled with alternate fuels. Unfortunetly, at this time, Diesel happens to be the best choice for us. Diesel technology is rock solid reliable, dirt cheap, easy to maintain, and no where near as pollutant as it once used to be.

We are of course always trying new things throughout the Company... While LPG might not work for our busses, I do beleive the Kiliminjaro Safaris use it for thier safari vehicles.

Personally, I'd like to see Fuel Cell technology improve, and come around to more of a reliable and cheap alternative... another 5-10 years though...
 
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
UPS uses them in some of their trucks, but LPG is very expensive.

Anne,
While I am quite sure everything you stated was a fact, the fumes still make me (and I am sure others) sick to my stomach and gives me a wicked headache. Much more so from trucks on the highway and city busses (which are horrible) away from Disney.

I do trust Disney does everything possible to be enviornmentally friendly.

Yes, deisel exhaust does have a rather pungent odor, I've also felt sickened by it--but it nothing to do with how much "Black stuff" is being produced, I believe it has to do with how hot or cool the engine is running. I could ask my DH--he's the "deisel guy" that gave me the info I posted before.

Anne
 
/
I found tyler's to be quite informative!! mainly because I have been around buses all my life!! I actually like the Diesel odor that buses emit!


the CNG buses tht Kelvin was talking about have to be fueled at a totally separate area from the diesel buses. there are some other differences between CNG and diesel buses. Unfortunately I can't think of them right now!
 
Originally posted by sue Z
I found tyler's to be quite informative!! mainly because I have been around buses all my life!! I actually like the Diesel odor that buses emit!


the CNG buses tht Kelvin was talking about have to be fueled at a totally separate area from the diesel buses. there are some other differences between CNG and diesel buses. Unfortunately I can't think of them right now!

To each their own ;)

Seriously, I tnink part of the difference is the amount of Benzene that each throws off.

Too bad they couldn't figure out how to cleanly and efficiently use animal dung to run the transit fleet--then the AK would have a place for that to go and the buses would have a never ending supply of "free" fuel :)

Anne
 
Originally posted by ducklite
To each their own ;)

Seriously, I tnink part of the difference is the amount of Benzene that each throws off.

Too bad they couldn't figure out how to cleanly and efficiently use animal dung to run the transit fleet--then the AK would have a place for that to go and the buses would have a never ending supply of "free" fuel :)

Anne

Mister Fusion, from Back to the Future!!! lol
 
I've removed all posts that had nothing to do with the WDW busses.

Will people please take a few minutes to read the Posting guidelines .

3. NO FIGHTING: Several Internet news groups are marred by the actions of a few selfish people who turn an otherwise positive forum into a soap box for their anger issues. Internet newsgroups are not moderated, and therefore, anything goes. These boards are moderated in an effort to keep the discussions appropriate to the topic at hand. Those who feel they can not abide by these rules are welcome to read the posts on the board, and respond via email to the person who posted the message. Messages that are argumentative or sarcastic in nature will be deleted without discussion.

If you have a problem with something that was posted, but cannot respond in an appropriate manner - please use e-mail or PM for your conversations with that person.

Please keep the thread on topic.
 
Drifting way off topic...

I have just about got used to the fact that UK petrol is the same thing as US gas and that a US gallon is 4/5 a UK gallon.

Can I now assume that UK LPG ( butane or proprane compressed to its liquid state) is the same thing as US CNG?

Gas Petrol sidewalk pavement stop lights brake lights hood bonnet boot trunk fender bumper roundabout traffic circle left right

Andrew
 
Having seen the Transit Bus system in Baltimore for years, I'd say the Disney Bus system is quite clean running in comparison.

TYler-I'd love to see Fuel cell technology. But the Oil Companies just won't allow it to be developed. So I'd add about 20-50 years to your projections!!
 
Chip n Dale---

Has Disney concidered using Biodiesel which is mainly soybean oil processed to burn in diesel engines? It requires no conversion or special equipment for diesel engines so they could use the busses they currently have. Biodiesel is usually blended with regurlar diesel at anywhere from a 2% to a 50% ratio, although you can burn 100% biodiesel (the exaust smells like french fries) its cost prohibitive to do so.

The city of St Louis is using it in their fleet of busses and city trucks, and Lambert airport is using it too.

We burn a 2% blend of biodiesel in our farm tractors with good results. Some guys around here burn up to 20% in their pickups.
 
Originally posted by Locknload82
Has Disney concidered using Biodiesel which is mainly soybean oil processed to burn in diesel engines?

Here in the UK last year, a supermarket noticed that it was selling huge ammounts of cooking oil. Apparently locals were running their diesel cars on the stuff and avoiding regular diesel which is very heavily taxed here.

There are also a few small companies now that collect used cooking oil from restaurants, filter it, add the appropriate additives and sell it on, legally.

This kills two birds with one stone, as it recycles a wast product that is otherwise difficult to get rid of.

Imagine buses with 'Powered by McDonalds' on the side.

Andrew
 
There was a farm meeting here recently where there was some discussion about making your own biodiesel. Apparently it can be done in your own kitchen, but if not done properly your car will run ok for awhile but eventually plug the injector nozzels.

The commercial biodiesel does not have this problem. Engines tore down after 200,000 miles on biodiesel were cleaner inside than ones run on pure diesel. The only problem is its slightly higher cost than 100% diesel. In the long run its more economical than comp nat gas because you dont have to switch equipment.
 
Originally posted by Andrew Bichard
Drifting way off topic...

Can I now assume that UK LPG ( butane or proprane compressed to its liquid state) is the same thing as US CNG?

Andrew


No, I don't believe CNG is the same as LPG. CNG is compressed natural gas (which is mainly methane).

Ed
 














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