DEBATE: Mr. Scoop’s Challenge

Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by Another Voice, Sep 10, 2002.

  1. Another Voice

    Another Voice Charter Member of The Element

    Jan 27, 2000
    In a thread and in a private message, Mr. Scoop has asked me to provide specific examples of what I would do to turn WDW around if I was suddenly appointed Grand Gumbah. And specifics, not just the “give ‘em quality” line of my other postings. I hope our kind moderators will give me a little leeway and verge from the traditional news and rumors. I generally hate these make-believe games, but I think it’s only fair to give others the chance to play Statler and Waldorf.

    And since I was the one that first mentioned “cold hard business” I think it’s only right that I play by my own rules. It’s much too easy to suggest pouring in $300 million to build Beastly Kingdom. Besides, that’s not very practical at the moment.

    So I’ve written down a group of ideas that – taken together – I think would fulfill Mr. Scoop’s criteria from his message. Unfortunately a few ideas have turned out to be a rather long post. Rather than publish it all at once, I’ve decided to drop them out a few at a time for people to comment on and bash as they choose. If no one cares, I’ll stop.

    So here are my first suggestions for gang to pick apart and the one that most directly addresses the Character Show and nighttime test runs issue:

    Weenies aren’t just for the parks.

    This whole topic started because of the proposed Character Show as a way to keep people in the Magic Kingdom longer. The closing-time spectacular (or weenie) is a good concept that’s proven successful at Epcot and the Disney/MGM Studios. And adding one to the Magic Kingdom seems like a no-brainer. But this is not the time to be no-brained.

    Nothing screams “value” to a guest like “free” does. So – how about a new fireworks show in the middle of the Seven Seas Lagoon? It serves the same purpose as a closing show at the Magic Kingdom (people will stick around in the park waiting for the show), but this one has other benefits. First of course is that it suddenly becomes an instant “perk” for guests at the Disney resorts. Gee – fireworks from your hotel without having to squint into the distance. Disney already charges extra for “fireworks” view rooms so it’s a proven draw.

    And since it’s a new venue, it would be great opportunity to try new effects and new shells. Something low level over water – but still with tremendous sightlines from 360 degrees will produce a show that’s completely different than the traditional castle show. And the scale will make it very different than Epcot’s show. The second key element of “value” is something that’s unique and different. Sure, Sea World can shoot up the same shells as Disney does – but can they do this?

    Next, it’s FREE and people will always love that. No “having” to go to the Magic Kingdom – but just think about how many of those people will choose to eat at a resort restaurant or shop in a resort shop. And gee, if they’re going all the way to the north end of the property they might as well stop in at the MK anyway. Why do you think casinos in Vegas plop volcanoes and fountains and pirate ships out in front? And just think about all those other revenue possibilities that go along with a “free” show. Don’t you think a picnic dinner on that grassy area besides the docks would be a fun way to wait for the fireworks?

    A centralized show is also a great way to get across the idea of “Walt Disney World” as a resort. Too often it feels that WDW is no longer a coherent whole, just four parks, a cluster of hotels and a few other tourist attractions all competing for a guest’s attention and wallet. A key way to increase the average guest’s perception of value to make WDW seem larger than its parts. A show that’s “property-wide” instead of tied to a single park will help to reinforce the entire resort.

    And no, this one show in and of itself will not cause anyone to sudden decide to visit WDW. That problem will need to be tackled from many different directions.

    P.S. if fireworks won’t work then just put in some other stunning show. And without actors you’d be amazed about how cheap these things are to produce.
  2. mjstaceyuofm

    mjstaceyuofm Mouseketeer

    Mar 4, 2002
    First off, I think I would like to hear more of your ideas. This is fair game for a topic I think. Next, on to the discussion.
    Is the problem that people are not sticking around long enough in the parks? My impression was just the opposite - people are upset that the park closes so early (at least I am). Or is it that not enough people stick around (in Disney's eyes) for Disney to justify keeping the park open?
    I would also agree with this statement. Case in point. The family and I usually stay at OKW. As usual, we don't rent a car but like to get to other hotels to eat. Well, POFQ is just around the corner (we used ot frequent Bonfamille's before it closed :mad: ), but try walking there with no sidewalks. We complained to the folks at PO and at OKW and got the same story - we're separate business units and no one wants to front the money for a sidewalk or path connecting the two resorts. This is a bad strategy as far as I'm concerned. WDW should be a coherent place that does not compete against itself for $. I just don't get it sometimes.

    I like the idea of a nighttime Seven Seas show, but I wonder how much infrastructure beyond the show would be required to make it work. I'm thinking speakers around the lagoon, added viewing vistas at all the resorts and outside the MK and perhaps even some more restaraunts. Just some thoughts.

    Keep 'em coming AV...
  3. Avatar


    to hide this advert.
  4. Dad of 5

    Dad of 5 Isn't this what money is for?

    Sep 21, 2001
    While I think it would be a super idea to have another fireworks show, would the WDW mgmt reply "We already have the water parade nightly. It runs across the entire Seven Seas Lagoon, and is visible from all the area resorts. And it's free. And we're already doing it. NEXT!"

    Just "another" another voice (if those two words aren't trademarked :smooth: ).
  5. Bstanley

    Bstanley DisNoid

    Mar 1, 2001
    Sounds like a good show/idea. I know I enjoy the fireworks over Seven Seas Lagoon during Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party a lot and this would be bigger and 'badder'.

    I hate to sound like a 'suit', but with a show like this you would also see increases in dinner reservations at the monorail resorts as well as keeping people in the MK.

    Now how do we work in the Electric Water Parade?

    P.S. - You know Scoop, making AV give away good ideas will probably end up costing him money. As a consultant ideas are a part of his stock in trade. :-)

    P.P.S. It's modestly interesting that the first idea didn't involve extending the hours.
  6. Peter Pirate

    Peter Pirate Its not the end of civilization...But you can see

    Dec 19, 1999
    One problem I see is a possible increase in transportation issues if it were to catch on & people arrived just for the "spectacular" - Issue's that I'm sure could be dealt with easily though.

    I semi-disagree with Mr. Voice's assesment that (a relatively simple show like) this wouldn't be somthing that woud make people come back to Disney as depending upon how elaborate they decided to be, it very well could be a show stopper...People do/have decided to come to WDW based on Illuminations after all...

    :cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:


    Jan 8, 2001
    Haven't they already done fireworks out on the lagoon ? In Dec we were spinning around in a water mouse and got a chance to watch workers setting up what was supposed to be a huge display on one of the islands. I'm pretty sure it had something to do with Walt's 100th. Regardless, I'm a fireworks fanatic so let the boomimg begin.
  8. Sarangel

    Sarangel <font color=red><font color=navy>Rumor has it ...<

    Jan 18, 2000
    Scoop, I like your idea. Create something like the fountain show at the Bellagio in Las Vegas, but add fireworks a la M. Voice. There's an infrastructure issue - building fountains, floats for the fireworks, lighting, music, etc. But it would go a long way towards creating a percieved value.

    On the other hand, as Devil's advocate, they tried this at DCA and it didn't work. Last Christmas they created Luminaria (low level fireworks and water effects) for the DCA Pond and, while it was cute, it didn't draw the guests in. I guess we've gotten used to the Jumbo-sized Weenies, and that's what it would take at WDW.

    The only other problem I can see with one of us floating an idea on a public board like this is that it seems like that would be a way to guarantee that nothing like what we envision would ever occur, given the lawsuit-happy culture we live in (sorry, scoop, I know lawyers need to make a living too). :)

  9. Lewisc

    Lewisc <a href="

    May 23, 2000
    Go back and read Tikimans post on the problem at POLY this July 4th. This will only work if they can control the amount of non-resort guests who hang out for the free show. I like the idea but I'm not sure if the monorail resorts need that much help in filling rooms and restaurants.

    I'd move (or build an additional TTC) by DD. Create the Universal experience where you end your day into shops, restaurants and PI. May have to build a parking garage and a monorail (or train) to the parks. Take care of all the people entering from the I-Drive area. As an alternative build something by WWS. Keep the non-resort guests out of the middle of WDW (cut down traffic).
  10. DisneyKidds

    DisneyKidds <font color=green>The TF thanks DisneyKidds for mo

    Mar 30, 2001
    I certainly like the idea of fireworks over 7 Seas Lagoon. Cool. Great benefit for the resort guests. Takes even more of the magic outside of the parks and makes the whole MK resort areas more of an all-encompassing attraction. How cool is it to be at a resort, or on a boat, or the monorail, etc. and see the Electrical Water Pageant float by? Well, it is really cool and is often just stumbled upon. Fireworks would be 10x that cool.


    I don't see this idea as doing much to address the goal of a MK evening ending event. I say so primariy due to viewing. Using new elements, low level shells over the water, etc., etc. would be great. However, fireworks over the Lagoon could probably not be viewed effectively (as a park closing event) from inside the MK. Where would all those people stand?

    Now, the fireworks over the Lagoon in addition to an evening ending event inside the you are talking.
  11. MikePezz

    MikePezz 1,000th happy haunt

    Aug 28, 1999
    I remember hearing years back about a proposed water pageant to be done in the lagoon between the boardwalk and Yacht and Beach Clubs. It was supposed to be based on Noah's Arc and use smaller light screens than the Seven Seas Lagoon version. Anyone else remember hearing this rumor back in the early 1990's? It was as if Disney was trying to find something to perk up the Epcot resorts (well, the magic kindgom premium hotels get a the electric water pageant, the epcot resorts should get something).

    Every new years eve, fireworks are shot off from one of the islands in the middle of the seven seas lagoon, so your idea Scoop is not far fetched at all. We stayed at the Grand last new year's and had a great view of the show (they were coordinated with the fireworks at the Magic Kingdom).
  12. raidermatt

    raidermatt Beware of the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression

    Sep 26, 2000
    DK- The idea would probably be to have the 7 Lagoons show soon after MK's closing time. This would encourage guests to stay in MK until near closing.

    I think the Pirate is right, any transportation issues could be dealt with. With viewing areas all around the Lagoon, there should be plenty of spots available, so no need to leave the park early and get a good spot.

    Now, would it work? What goals would it accomplish?

    Well, it would definitely add value to the WDW resort as a whole, particularly the resorts in the area. No question about that, and if it can be done relatively inexpensively as AV says, then on the surface at least, it would be cost justifiable.

    It would increase the demand for restaurants and rooms with a view, as AV said.

    It would certainly provide another option, which we know is a value for guests.

    Would it keep people in the MK until closing, just as the parade and fireworks do? Probably.

    Potential drawbacks? It could actually draw people out of the other three parks early to get over to the Lagoon.

    The demand might not be as high as we think.

    However, the main point is that this is EXACTLY the type of idea WDW should be mulling over. Its the kind of idea that should be discussed, studied, and maybe even tested.

    Without more data (surveys, impacts of other decisions, etc), its difficult to really say yes or no on whether this should be implemented. But its definitely worth exploring...
  13. Testtrack321

    Testtrack321 <font color=blue>Good GOD, man, quit banging your

    Jan 13, 2001
    How about having a fireworks show shown simultaniously on all the body's of water on property and in all the parks? Lazers, fireworks, and higlighting lots of parks. People would stay more than 3 nights to see all the parts of the shows at each location.
  14. DisneyKidds

    DisneyKidds <font color=green>The TF thanks DisneyKidds for mo

    Mar 30, 2001
    Agreed. Close the park and then have this Show. However, I still think there would be a plethora of logistics issues.

    Picture, if you will, a MK closing - even in the offseason and especially if the majority of the guests stuck around. Even with off season crowds, it is still a cattle call. Sure, not like the summer, but there are still a lot of people. So you send them out of the MK. Do they try and glimpse the fireworks as they wait in line for the monorail or sit on a boat to the TTC? That isn't much of a show. Or do you do the fireworks long enough after close that the exodus dissipates and people find a viewing place? If you do this, are the majority of people going to stick around for that 30+ minutes? What are the viewing places? Would the majority of people want to invest the time to get to one of the resorts to see the show, and then back to wherever afterward? Would resort guests complain about the resorts being overrun?

    I think it is a great idea, it just not to be sold as any kind of MK closing event.
  15. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

    Jul 21, 2000
    With one single idea, even if he had never uttered a word before this, AV shows - CLEARLY, that he "GETS IT"!!!!

    Thanks AV!! :bounce:
  16. HorizonsFan

    HorizonsFan DIS Veteran

    May 4, 2000
    An EXCELLENT idea!
    As far as viewing areas go, I think the unfinished walkway towards the GF could handle quite a large number of people as well as the monorail resorts. This could generate extra revenue in the form of Seven Seas Lagoon Show cruises as well...
    Keep 'em coming AV!
  17. DisneyFanGuy

    DisneyFanGuy Disney Nut

    Jun 4, 2000
    A Seven Seas lagoon show is a great idea! It would absolutely unite the resort, and add a huge dash of magic. I love love love the idea. Disney could even build special viewing areas in the premier hotels and offer a desert banquet like DL does with Fantasmic.

    It does NOT, however, deal with the desire to keep people longer in the MK. People would leave and try to make the show.

    How about this. Do a full blown show in the Rivers of America area similar to how DL handles Fantasmic? A completely different plot line, new effects.........

    If they build it people will come.
  18. YoHo

    YoHo If you have any poo to fling, now is the time.

    Nov 1, 1999
    Wait wait wait, now What problem are we trying to solve?

    The issue is getting people to the parks, not keeping them there longer. I would bet that if the parks were open til 10 in the off season, there would be a reasonable number of people there til 10. the issue is one of costs and getting more people there to spend more money. This accomplishes that.

    I would like to add that if they remain running during the show, the Monorail and big boats should have the music piped in.

    As to the Legalities of this ever happening, I bet Disney could get around it if they liked the idea (maybe Scoop or AV should pitch it to an insider) I mean their lawyers are knee deep in Pooh right now (best double entandre ever) but they could work it out and I know I for one would give up any rights to any idea if it meant that Disney World would be improved.
  19. EUROPA

    EUROPA DIS Veteran

    Dec 26, 2000
    1,731 that is a problem that Disney made up. They need the same number of people to spend more money so they can fund the other parts of the company. The parks still prodcuce about the same profit margins that they have for years.

    Like I've said in another post until everybody agrees on what the real problem is then point is moot and people will keep draging the post to slove two different "problems"
  20. YoHo

    YoHo If you have any poo to fling, now is the time.

    Nov 1, 1999
    My Reference was only to the problem AV's solution solves. IF that is not the issue other people think needs solved then obviously we are all on different pages.
  21. EUROPA

    EUROPA DIS Veteran

    Dec 26, 2000
    See that's just it, not everybody agrees on what the problem is or else we would not be having these post back and forth .

Share This Page