DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[TwoMisfits]

This right here is the crux of the problem. They are altering the program and hurting legitimate users while the fakers will continue to fake. A perfect example is my sister in law whose child had DAS for ADHD when he was younger, but no longer needs it. She still uses it now that he’s an adult when they go to the parks. I think because it’s a “real diagnosis” she doesn’t feel guilty for doing it and knows the words to use in the interview so she gets it. He would still qualify under the new system and has zero need for it.

This goes back to my "greater scrutiny on developmental disabilities in adults" is probably coming.

 

[Philsfan77]

I would be very surprised if ADHD is addressed the same way under the new system. For one thing, plenty of pushy parents badger doctors into writing ADHD diagnoses for their kids so they are allowed more time to do tests like SATs, and this should not automatically lead to DAS being granted. And even under the existing system there have been reports of DAS being refused for ADHD (screenshot attached is from April 2023).

https://www.disboards.com/threads/did-the-rules-for-das-change-recently.3915847/

That thread is kind of part of the issue. A lot of people coaching on what to say, or to anticipate as a question from the cast member to have an answer ready to give back. I also would think a return to line pass for this person would be efficient enough to meet their needs than DAS based on what they describe (being able to fly, but needing to move occasionally and being in a car for 30 minute increments and then needing a movement break), these could reasonably be accommodated by this person leaving the line when they need a movement break and then returning after they have self-soothed.

 

[Keladry84]

If you meant to say you don't need tickets, then that is correct. I called yesterday and I realized that I already had my approved case number for August visit even though I don't have a purchased ticket officially, but will soon , going to enjoy Universal all that much more this year over Disney, because I don't have anything to hide so going through a more scrutinized medical process was very easy for me and felt far more comfortable with that process than having to do an online video chat or in person chat

Thank you, I forgot the word "not!" I've updated my previous post

 

[ClaraOswald]

I think it might be worth understanding how very conflicting these two statements are in multiple ways.

On one level you are assuming things about children who do not have a neurodivergence in an environment like Disney, on another level you are assuming that the child with the neurodivergence has a worse reaction than one who does not and on another level you say you recognize that every single person is vastly different but don't apply that to two children with neurodivergence never mind applying that too a child who does and a child who doesn't.

This is one of the reasons why people are going to continue to push back against some of these comments. We need to recognize that we really can't assume the behaviors of any one individuals (child, adult, neurodivergent or not, etc)

My point with the first statement is that neurotypical brains work differently than neurodivergent brains. It's an apples and oranges type of thing so there's no point in comparing the two.

 

[Keladry84]

We’re at 141 pages and not a single theory how this change is going to cut down on abuse by those faking. We mostly all accept abuse is the catalyst for this change, so where’s the fix for that?

Not really a theory....but maybe an observation. I've seen some people state that the fakers will now just claim "autism" and research characteristics etc. At first this kind of worried me, especially as I am autistic and fear facing more scrutiny from CMs in the interview, as well as being disbelieved regarding my needs and explanation.

BUT, the more I read people's responses on here, the less worried I become. Most responses I've seen show that there is at best only a very surface level of what autism is, the person's experience, and just why they would need accommodations in a queue. The only responses I've seen that ring true to really explain are those posted by others who have stated they are autistic. Everyone else reads like at best they have read a description of autism but aren't living it (which is actually true).

Disney stated they are pairing with health care individuals. I would hope some of those would be experts in autism, and be able to properly train CMs to tell the difference. This could be true for other disabilities as well. I do think that this will help cut down on abuse.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well - IF (as it’s been suggested) a large group of the DAS fakers were claiming IBS/UC as their need - and those conditions will no longer be eligible for the DAS program but rather by an alternative process (as it’s also been theorized in these 141 pages based on Disney’s confusing statements) - I think there’s an answer right there….

I must admit in the last 1 1/2 years or so (IMO only) the conversations about DAS have been so much around conditions that one would describe as "bathroom issues" meaning they related to someone's needs for a bathroom (basic level description here). Developmental disabilities appear to have taken a backseat IMO on the need and utilization of DAS purely an observation on my part.

I don't think that is a "faker" vs "authentic" conversation just from making that observation just that I've noticed a different predominant conversation occur on the threads. Some of course spurned by the DLR adjustment months back.

 

[ClaraOswald]

The more I read, the more I think Disney isn't trying to crack down on fakers, per se. I think they are just trying to find different, more appropriate accommodations for all different types of disabilities. And in the process, it will (hopefully) cut down on fakers just trying to get DAS.

Basically, if a non-DAS accommodation will work better for some people/types of disabilities, they will offer that. And it would hopefully make it less appealing to some fakers. (Though there will always be those who skirt the system, no way around that when so many dishonest people are in the world.)

 

[TwoMisfits]

The more I read, the more I think Disney isn't trying to crack down on fakers, per se. I think they are just trying to find different, more appropriate accommodations for all different types of disabilities. And in the process, it will (hopefully) cut down on fakers just trying to get DAS.

Basically, if a non-DAS accommodation will work better for some people/types of disabilities, they will offer that. And it would hopefully make it less appealing to some fakers. (Though there will always be those who skirt the system, no way around that when so many dishonest people are in the world.)

I think what you mean to say is that if a non-DAS accommodation will STILL work for some people/types of disabilities, they will offer that. Nothing will work BETTER than DAS, but it doesn't need to. For the law, it just needs to be reasonable and work "enough".

 

[vspenn]

I think it might be worth understanding how very conflicting these two statements are in multiple ways.

On one level you are assuming things about children who do not have a neurodivergence in an environment like Disney, on another level you are assuming that the child with the neurodivergence has a worse reaction than one who does not and on another level you say you recognize that every single person is vastly different but don't apply that to two children with neurodivergence never mind applying that too a child who does and a child who doesn't.

This is one of the reasons why people are going to continue to push back against some of these comments. We need to recognize that we really can't assume the behaviors of any one individuals (child, adult, neurodivergent or not, etc)

that's the point. A neurotypical child will still have same behavior that meets the bar for DAS. it may not be as severe as a neurodivergent child or adult, but it also can be the same since there is so much variation. The end result is that I have had to leave lines and abandon rides at Disney with my neurotypical child because the line was too long and no amount of distraction, snack or whatever made it possible for them to remain standing in line without severely disturbing others. Isn't that the question - what makes you not able to stay in a long line? and yet, no one is suggesting that neurotypical kids get any kind of accommodation, regardless of age.
I mentioned this earlier, but Legoland has a good solution - they have lego build stations through the lines and lines circle around them. kids go to the build station while parents stay in line, everyone can see their kids and when it's time, they go to their parents. this is a humane way to help kids manage multi-hour lines. I wish Disney had something similar instead of claustrophobic, narrow, sardine-can lines or just standing in the open sun (looking at you, Toy Story land in HS!). Tiana line is going to be more of the same - standing in open sun with nothing for kids to look at or do.

 

[lynzi2004]

What if Disney offered accommodations based on that line for that person at a particular time/day? Sure we all want to know where and when we will ride our next ride, but even Genie+ users don’t know that bc they can’t select the time they want to return (which was one of the biggest uproars when it was rolled out, other than costs.)

For instance, you have IBS (you’ve qualified for DAS in the past, so you’ve always got it, just “in case” you have a bathroom emergency) Now, with Disney changing the accommodations, you just get in line. And you wait through 2-3 standby lines that morning with no bathroom issues. You go to get in line for your 4th ride and then it hits and you have to “go” You speak to a CM and get a return to line or bathroom pass. I don’t have IBS or pretend to know what that is like, but I’m thinking if I’m legitimately running to the bathroom every few minutes, I’m not going to be wanting to continue to be in a theme park all day when/if problems arise once I can see it’s going to be a multiple issue kind of day. From the reports here, it can vary day by day for many people. Disney could potentially add the accommodation for return to line, old DAS, etc if they can scan your magic band and realize this has been a problem multiple times that day vs giving a DAS for all day accommodation and it maybe never needing to be used that day, but the user still using it bc they can.

Same with my autistic son. I honestly don’t know how he would do waiting in a 1-2 hour line bc I know enough not to try it if for some reason we don’t have DAS or they change it to where I can’t ride with all my kids at the same time, I will purchase Genie for our family. Even if the times, etc don’t always work out for us, I could probably get it close enough or at least better than getting in a standby line. But bc the DAS option has been available, we used it. A friend of mine also has a son with autism (and I am very aware that no two autistic kids are the same) they haven’t taken their kids to Disney yet, but she has talked about how with his diagnosis he would be eligible for DAS. But at the same time, he was standing in 30+ min lines at the county fair chatting with his friends and just having a good old time. Same for my son, maybe I try the standby line with him and if we make it fine, we continue to do that until there’s a problem. Once there’s a problem, then we speak with someone about a DAS pass for the day (not the entire trip)

I don’t know just throwing out some options, maybe it’s bc the DAS is in use, but I don’t routinely see people having medical emergencies in line. That’s also not something I want to see, but maybe Disney is so busy accommodating the “what if’s” that we are missing the bigger picture. In some ways, Genie+ could be viewed as an accommodation even though it’s paid. If anyone, for any reason, can’t stand in the standby line, the option to purchase Genie+ is available to all to skip the line. If it was back to all Standby only, that would be a disadvantage to a large group of people. In fact, we specifically didn’t bring our son during the Covid period that Genie wasn’t available, even though my husband and I took a trip. (This was before I knew about DAS.) we always had just used FP before. Maybe certain lines trigger PTSD, etc. then those would be the first rides you should choose with your Genie+. Even if JC sells out first, and you don’t really want to wait in that line but you CAN, but the dark, claustrophobic HM line is what gives you problems, then pick HM with Genie+ first and wait in the JC line that is outside. It may not be what everyone else wants to hear but it would technically get the job done and lessen the people in the LL bc you are using standby for a ride you would normally have used accommodation for even though it wasn’t necessary for that ride. Same thing could be said for JC and Space mountain in reverse if heat was the issue. Book JC for your genie and get in the Space standby line. If the reason you have DAS is for heat related issues, is there any reason you are using it on Space Mtn anyway?!

Just trying to think through how we will navigate the parks differently depending on how DAS is adjusted.

 

[ClaraOswald]

Not really a theory....but maybe an observation. I've seen some people state that the fakers will now just claim "autism" and research characteristics etc. At first this kind of worried me, especially as I am autistic and fear facing more scrutiny from CMs in the interview, as well as being disbelieved regarding my needs and explanation.

BUT, the more I read people's responses on here, the less worried I become. Most responses I've seen show that there is at best only a very surface level of what autism is, the person's experience, and just why they would need accommodations in a queue. The only responses I've seen that ring true to really explain are those posted by others who have stated they are autistic. Everyone else reads like at best they have read a description of autism but aren't living it (which is actually true).

Disney stated they are pairing with health care individuals. I would hope some of those would be experts in autism, and be able to properly train CMs to tell the difference. This could be true for other disabilities as well. I do think that this will help cut down on abuse.

Spot on.

Yeah...I think I need to bow out of this thread because it's just getting frustrating to read so much misinformation about autism. I get enough of that in literally every other aspect of my life. I don't need it bleeding into my free time here on the DIS.

Hopefully the new training the staff gets will health weed out people faking autism because those people are trash!

Honestly, it's probably best if people keep up with their wrong assumptions because maybe the fakers will use that when trying to get DAS. Ha!

 

[voxparse]

Just like locks and security systems, you will never stop the determined people. You build a system that discourages crimes of convenience and do your best.

 

[sarahk0204]

If anyone, for any reason, can’t stand in the standby line, the option to purchase Genie+ is available to all to skip the line. If it was back to all Standby only, that would be a disadvantage to a large group of people.

DH and I had a trip in October 2021 just before Genie+ came out. At that time, there was a lot of discussion online whether the parks still needed Fastpass+, or if we could just continue to have only standby lines, because Fastpass slowed down the standby queues. (The Fastpass (now LL) lines were used a little during that time, which I know now was DAS, as well as VIP and guest recovery.)

The standby queues during that trip were awful, with CM's with the sign to where the line started pretty far from the entrance to some attractions. And this is a time when social distancing had pretty much been eliminated from the queues, so that wasn't artificially making the standby lines look longer.

So, I knew then that standby only was not feasible as the parks increased capacity. Genie+ came out a few weeks after our trip.

 

[Kgrace1989]

I have severe trauma induced arthritis in my back, left arm and wrist. In fact I am considered as having a physical disability. I was a concert pianist - Juilliard trained. I also have a total knee replacement and scheduled for another one. My DD and I love to ski. My DD is a fantastic skier. Had she not gone to Riverview School in MA, she would have qualified to be on the US Para Olympic Ski Team. Skiing is something we do. Frequently I would come home from work and we would drive to Park City for a couple of runs. We lived to ski. My DD needs accommodations. She either has to have the snow painted on the side of the run or someone needs to ski there so she doesn’t ski off the side of the mountain or cliff. However, I am no longer physically able to ski. I can no longer hold a pole in my left hand. I can’t handle the pain in my back. No amount of accommodation could make it possible for me to ski. The National Ability Center has tried everything with me as they know our love for skiing.

This is my point. Sometimes we need to make the very difficult decision that no matter how much we want to do something, no matter how others (Disney in this case) try to accommodate our particular needs, we simply can no longer do the thing we love. Does it suck? Yes, totally!!!

I think people need to make a decision, given the new parameters of accommodations Disney is able to do. If the accommodations still are able to work for you and your situation, great! If not, I can certainly feel for you and I have empathy but it is a fact that Disney can no longer sustain the amount of DAS users.

Disney is saying that the amount of individuals needing a DAS is interrupting their business. It is horrible when you wait in a virtual queue for 45 minutes to an hour, go to the attraction when it is your turn and then have to wait an additional 30 minutes in the LL. It is frustrating when you purchase the LL or ILL and then end up waiting 30 to 45 minutes. Clearly something has to be done for their every day operations to function.

Disney is drawing a new line in the sand. That is reality. Everyone needs to figure out if it will work or not. Everyone needs to figure out a different way or decide that going to the parks is no longer possible and find something else to enjoy.

I really love this response… i think it is really nuanced to acknowledge that Disney (or any place) can only do so much to help people enjoy their parks. And you are right, it isn’t sustainable to think Disney can offer open ended access to the LL for every disabled person and their entire party.
And I know that the guests using DAS are waiting the same amount of time as the standby line, but when they are able to go eat lunch or see a show ect and then come back to the LL to ride, it really is an opportunity to have an “enhanced” experience over a standby line guest.
And please note that I am saying the *opportunity*not that it automatically offers an enhanced experience.
Because a DAS guest might have DAS and still not have a great day in the parks, but the opportunity to have a better experience than those without DAS is definitely there because if it wasn’t possible to have an easier day with DAS then it wouldn’t be abused like it is.

 

[audrey2580]

Spot on.

Yeah...I think I need to bow out of this thread because it's just getting frustrating to read so much misinformation about autism. I get enough of that in literally every other aspect of my life. I don't need it bleeding into my free time here on the DIS.

Hopefully the new training the staff gets will health weed out people faking autism because those people are trash!

Honestly, it's probably best if people keep up with their wrong assumptions because maybe the fakers will use that when trying to get DAS. Ha!

I feel the same way about people saying Crohns or UC is a "bathroom issue". Until you have lived it, or had a child with it, you cannot understand it.

 

[lowlight]

Honestly, it's probably best if people keep up with their wrong assumptions because maybe the fakers will use that when trying to get DAS. Ha!

I understand this is personal to you and you are likely unable to see this objectively. I’m willing to bet almost no one in this thread is a faker. There isn’t some magical condition that only people that have it truly know the ins and outs about. If a clinician can learn to recognize it, someone can learn to fake it. I’m confused why you are getting upset when the only aspect of autism being discussed is how to prevent fraud, which you should be championing oddly enough.

 

[nalababybear]

I really love this response… i think it is really nuanced to acknowledge that Disney (or any place) can only do so much to help people enjoy their parks. And you are right, it isn’t sustainable to think Disney can offer open ended access to the LL for every disabled person and their entire party.
And I know that the guests using DAS are waiting the same amount of time as the standby line, but when they are able to go eat lunch or see a show ect and then come back to the LL to ride, it really is an opportunity to have an “enhanced” experience over a standby line guest.
And please note that I am saying the *opportunity*not that it automatically offers an enhanced experience.
Because a DAS guest might have DAS and still not have a great day in the parks, but the opportunity to have a better experience than those without DAS is definitely there because if it wasn’t possible to have an easier day with DAS then it wouldn’t be abused like it is.

Maybe that can happen. That's the 2.5 boxes experience of equity that may actually happen to some DAS holders.

I think things like 2 preselects make that 2.5 boxes happen more often. I was surprised that Disney made that change when DAS 2.0 online became available. We utilize that about 25% of the time if the slot aligns with the DAS holder. If not, that's okay too.

Life is already complex for those with disabilities. I celebrate a society that would give the occasional over assist than under -- which is most of the time in life with disabilities.

 

[voxparse]

I have severe trauma induced arthritis in my back, left arm and wrist. In fact I am considered as having a physical disability. I was a concert pianist - Juilliard trained. I also have a total knee replacement and scheduled for another one. My DD and I love to ski. My DD is a fantastic skier. Had she not gone to Riverview School in MA, she would have qualified to be on the US Para Olympic Ski Team. Skiing is something we do. Frequently I would come home from work and we would drive to Park City for a couple of runs. We lived to ski. My DD needs accommodations. She either has to have the snow painted on the side of the run or someone needs to ski there so she doesn’t ski off the side of the mountain or cliff. However, I am no longer physically able to ski. I can no longer hold a pole in my left hand. I can’t handle the pain in my back. No amount of accommodation could make it possible for me to ski. The National Ability Center has tried everything with me as they know our love for skiing.

This is my point. Sometimes we need to make the very difficult decision that no matter how much we want to do something, no matter how others (Disney in this case) try to accommodate our particular needs, we simply can no longer do the thing we love. Does it suck? Yes, totally!!!

I think people need to make a decision, given the new parameters of accommodations Disney is able to do. If the accommodations still are able to work for you and your situation, great! If not, I can certainly feel for you and I have empathy but it is a fact that Disney can no longer sustain the amount of DAS users.

Disney is saying that the amount of individuals needing a DAS is interrupting their business. It is horrible when you wait in a virtual queue for 45 minutes to an hour, go to the attraction when it is your turn and then have to wait an additional 30 minutes in the LL. It is frustrating when you purchase the LL or ILL and then end up waiting 30 to 45 minutes. Clearly something has to be done for their every day operations to function.

Disney is drawing a new line in the sand. That is reality. Everyone needs to figure out if it will work or not. Everyone needs to figure out a different way or decide that going to the parks is no longer possible and find something else to enjoy.

This is how you adapt with a disability and live a happy life. Reality sucks some times but the sooner we accept it and figure out how to work with it instead of against it, the happier we are. My mom used to tell me growing up that I got to feel sorry for myself for 5 minutes when something wasn't going my way and when that 5 minutes was up it was time to figure out how to adapt. Is 5 minutes enough? Probably not, but that was the point.

 

[Keladry84]

I understand this is personal to you and you are likely unable to see this objectively. I’m willing to bet almost no one in this thread is a faker. There isn’t some magical condition that only people that have it truly know the ins and outs about. If a clinician can learn to recognize it, someone can learn to fake it. I’m confused why you are getting upset when the only aspect of autism being discussed is how to prevent fraud, which you should be championing oddly enough.

I didn't read her response as implying people here discussing autism are fakers or trying to use it to "cheat" the system. Rather she is saying if someone is reading this thread for information to use, they will be regurgitating a lot of inaccuracies.

As to why someone would be upset about false presumptions of autism being perpetuated - it is not connected to the "prevention of DAS fraud/abuse" but rather how people perceive us in day-to-day life and how they judge and react to us and our difficulties. By having a lot of disinformation out there, it makes our everyday more difficult. That desire is completely non-connected to the specific context/discussion at hand.

 

[voxparse]

Maybe that can happen. That's the 2.5 boxes experience of equity that may actually happen to some DAS holders.

I think things like 2 preselects make that 2.5 boxes happen more often. I was surprised that Disney made that change when DAS 2.0 online became available. We utilize that about 25% of the time if the slot aligns with the DAS holder. If not, that's okay too.

Life is already complex for those with disabilities. I celebrate a society that would give the occasional over assist than under -- which is most of the time in life with disabilities.




View attachment 852273

I'm not an artist so I can't do it myself but I want a third panel labeled "adapt" with the little dude building a better platform to stand on for everyone or cutting a hole in the fence or watching the game on a TV in a lounge chair.