DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[sprem96]

This is inaccurate. You do need to have tickets, just state that purchasing tickets/solidifying dates is dependent on whether accommodations are received or not. I was able to get my accommodation approved without firm dates and with no tickets in hand.

If you meant to say you don't need tickets, then that is correct. I called yesterday and I realized that I already had my approved case number for August visit even though I don't have a purchased ticket officially, but will soon , going to enjoy Universal all that much more this year over Disney, because I don't have anything to hide so going through a more scrutinized medical process was very easy for me and felt far more comfortable with that process than having to do an online video chat or in person chat

 

[sprem96]

You may be correct on this, although until you brought it up, that hadn't crossed my mind. I used accommodations at both parks on visits earlier this year.

In March at Disney, I occasionally noticed another party checking in for DAS at the same time as me, but it seemed most parties in the LL were scanning green rather than blue.

In January at Universal - every ride I used the AAP for, there were 1-2 other parties at the CM either requesting a return time or redeeming one. At Hagrid's, it was an 8ish deep queue of people. I was really surprised at the high rate of usage (this even after the documentation/stricter level of scrutiny in granting the AAP).

This could have just been a perfect storm of AAP users coming all at once, time of day, etc,. Any time I've used my AAP at Hagrid's, I have been the only one requesting it at the moment, generally between 9-11am mornings in August. I have done it 4 times, so a small sample size.

 

[lowlight]

We’re at 141 pages and not a single theory how this change is going to cut down on abuse by those faking. We mostly all accept abuse is the catalyst for this change, so where’s the fix for that?

 

[Kgrace1989]

Absolutely. I have several diagnosed disabilities. 5 of them cause issues that numerous people have received DAS for. I've never applied for DAS or felt that I needed it. I've had medical issues in lines, had to leave loads of lines, leave the park early, etc, but for me, I never felt that accomodations were necessary. Sure, it would have been helpful and made my day easier, but I was still able to go on rides, even if it meant leaving the line and returning after taking care of an issue.

That doesn't mean that I think everyone with those same disabilities that received DAS shouldn't have received it. They quite possibly experienced more difficulties in queues than I did. It may be more challenging for them to leave and return to the queue than it was for me. In some instances, we may have the same exact issues in lines, but theirs are at a greater severity or frequency than mine. For me, accomodations (other than return to line which I've always been able to utilize) weren't necessary, but for them they may have been necessary.

That's why accomodations haven't been and shouldn't be based on diagnosis.

Absolutely, a diagnosis doesn’t usually give e thorough picture of a disability.

That doesn't mean that I think everyone with those same disabilities that received DAS shouldn't have received it. They quite possibly experienced more difficulties in queues than I did. It may be more challenging for them to leave and return to the queue than it was for me. In some instances, we may have the same exact issues in lines, but theirs are at a greater severity or frequency than mine. For me, accomodations (other than return to line which I've always been able to utilize) weren't necessary, but for them they may have been necessary.

That's why accomodations haven't been and shouldn't be based on diagnosis.

Agreed, diagnosis is just a label and doesn't give a full picture.
I know this is controversial… but I really think In some cases it isn’t wrong to limit the DAS to the person with special needs and one other person (and I am very empathetic for all with disabilities as there are several family members of mine that struggle with life altering disabilities
My sister and her husband would take my nephews to Hershey Park a lot and their youngest was diagnosed with severe autism and was totally unable to wait for longer than maybe 15/ 20 minutes or so minutes.
At the time Hershey only allowed the person with the disability and one other person to ride using the alternate entrance .
They would split up to ride the rides with longer waits and then meet up to do the things with shorter waits that Jonathan could handle.
It wasn’t ideal, but they made it work. And just like families with typical kids some days were not great and others went smoothly.
I realize very few families would be willing to do this, but the reality is that Disney really only has to provide acclamations for the disabled person ( and a caregiver if the disabled person is a child or unable to be alone).
And it might be that in order to make the system a littler more equal Disney might have to ask some people (and their families) to make some compromises for a better experience for everyone.
I know separation can be very challenging (sometimes impossible) with autistic individuals. But in most families at least one parent works all day and the kids go to school.. so they have to be separate at least some for some amount of time when they are not at Disney world
Obviously, this is not possible for every person with autism and similar challenges.. And it won’t work in some scenarios (like single parents there with more than one child)

 

[Sprinkles&Sprints]

If I am interpreting the tea leaves correctly, I am someone (with a legit medical condition) who may fall into overuse (or more provocatively “misuse”)— we used to use FP+ and tried G+ and wheelchair before a spine doctor suggested DAS (even still at DLR we do not use DAS because we can get on enough of the rides my kids love with G+ and ILL and they can understand that some days we just can’t do everything or they can ride with dad while mom does laps around the Matterhorn or curls up in a ball on a bench. I suspect going forward Disney wants me to use rider switch (alone or with one kid) if I want to ride—which isn’t perfect but feels fairer than nothing between DAS and not riding anything over a 30m wait. We might visit a little less, probably ride shorter rides or rides where we buy LL together, and I’ll skip some of the other rides (also easier when one/both kids are old enough to not need an adult)— as I mentioned a hundred pages ago, we didn’t do TT even with LL and/or DAS on our last trip because the line was too long…and we should have skipped BTMRR if we knew it would be as long as it was.

Not sure how others would feel but I would wholeheartedly support Disney tracking park visits via phone/MB and defaulting to denying DAS to users who use DAS and end up with more than say 133% of the average rides completed by a non-DAS user who had been at the park from rope drop to close. Not saying they would definitely be denied, but much more scrutiny should be applied and it would probably be a strong indicator you would be ok with more limited accommodations. I actually think a variety of variations on this theme would hold up in court— “we gave them DAS, saw they did 1.5x as many rides as the average guest, stayed 90% of park hours, and flagged them to modify accommodation on next visit.”

Finally, I do expect DAS to be more centered on children in part because it’s less common for a “faker” to be able to come up with a child with developmental disabilities, but also is the party is limited to 4, even if you are able to convince a family with a special needs child to join you, it’s not going to make your day faster or easier and you can’t bring many of your friends. I really hope Disney is already keeping track of everyone with wrong answers and identical scripted statements because I do fear people who get screened out will keep researching (on boards like this) and calling back until they succeed.

As someone who has used DAS for several years, I would be fine with Disney tracking if I went on more rides per day compared to non-DAS users, and applying greater scrutiny accordingly (but perhaps easy for me to say as I know we don’t even come close)

 

[NumberOneDime]

We’re at 141 pages and not a single theory how this change is going to cut down on abuse by those faking. We mostly all accept abuse is the catalyst for this change, so where’s the fix for that?

I'll throw out a theory. They are going to make it more of a pain to get. You used to be able to walk up to any guest services and get it in a matter of moments. Now it will only be over video call and I suspect the wait time for those calls will be quite long.

Will this eliminate all fakers? No, of course not. But it will probably cut down on them though.

Next: making most DAS'ers use rider swap. Somebody in your party will physically be waiting in line now anyway. No more free "skip-the-line" return time for everybody in your party while all of you ride standby on another ride. This would likely make it less appealing to fake for. At least for parties of 3 or more. I'm not sure how they will set up DAS rider swap for parties of 2 or 1.

Add all of the above together and there's less of a reason to fake it. That's my theory anyway.

 

[Jrb1979]

We’re at 141 pages and not a single theory how this change is going to cut down on abuse by those faking. We mostly all accept abuse is the catalyst for this change, so where’s the fix for that?

It will cut down on some due to them going to a third party to qualify. It also isn't all about getting rid of abuse but cutting down on the amount of guests using LL.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Taking away advanced selections and making people wait 10 minutes after tapping in helps to make DAS less attractive to fakers as well. Arguably they can increase that 10 minute delay if it proves effective.

 

[sprem96]

Because the ADA says you can’t ask for proof?

Then the problem is how can they know someone is lying about their DD if they can't ask for proof. Not like I have anything to hide, I carry proof around all the time, but I have never been asked about my disability once in parks after I received my DAS or equivalent program at other parks. But let's say they did start doing that, the person can just reiterate their disability and walk away essentially. All this new website statement is saying is other legitimate disabled people no longer can acquire DAS in attempts to limit the lies of others.

 

[sprem96]

Some of these hypothetical suggestions for DAS really expect a lot of Disney IT… sure, a typical company might manage that but - we’re talking Disney here!

Sorry, just a little levity. I know some of these suggestions have had serious thought put into it. I just don’t see Disney managing such personalized level of accommodations. It gets much too complicated.

Between the IT, the CM staff knowledge of the individual needs, let's be honest, it's a lot of work with just the vast amount of different disabilities are out there.

 

[jo-jo]

Yesterday I saw on FB, a person said, we had a great day at MK. Over 15 rides including tron with DAS. Don't know why or who had the DAS.

Last year at MK, we had what we thought was a great day. We went on JC with wheelchair boat, haunted, hall of presidents, small world with wheelchair boat, Mickey's philharmagic , buzz , web way and COP. That was 4 uses of DAS. Of course we are two old people. Kids will want different rides and we have limitations aside from DAS needs. So maybe a kid will hit 8 rides with DAS and a few shows

But even using genie + and LL , can anyone do over 15 rides in one day?

I hope with no more pretrip rides and limit of 4 (aside from family) and the 10 min delay will make enough of a difference.

Because we have done a few trips with grandkids, we have about 15 people on our family list. Last year when we got DAS, the CM asked who was going with us. When we said it was just us, CM seemed surprised.

 

[lowlight]

It will cut down on some due to them going to a third party to qualify. It also isn't all about getting rid of abuse but cutting down on the amount of guests using LL.

If saying the right words to a CM works, how would saying the right words to a third party not work?

We don’t know what the changes to Genie+ are that were waiting on this DAS revamp, but we can safely assume a price raise. So the incentive for getting DAS remains unchanged, the qualifications for DAS slightly changed and are still able to be faked, so really they’ve only punished the questionable users of DAS who have legitimate disabilities which maybe don’t always need full DAS.

 

[sprem96]

Yesterday I saw on FB, a person said, we had a great day at MK. Over 15 rides including tron with DAS. Don't know why or who had the DAS.

Last year at MK, we had what we thought was a great day. We went on JC with wheelchair boat, haunted, hall of presidents, small world with wheelchair boat, Mickey's philharmagic , buzz , web way and COP. That was 4 uses of DAS. Of course we are two old people. Kids will want different rides and we have limitations aside from DAS needs. So maybe a kid will hit 8 rides with DAS and a few shows

But even using genie + and LL , can anyone do over 15 rides in one day?

I hope with no more pretrip rides and limit of 4 (aside from family) and the 10 min delay will make enough of a difference.

Because we have done a few trips with grandkids, we have about 15 people on our family list. Last year when we got DAS, the CM asked who was going with us. When we said it was just us, CM seemed surprised.

I think a major factor comes down to someone's ability to plan and organize, plus overall speed of the group, time you spend in the park, and certain rides are lower wait times at different parts of the day. I know personally, even though I struggle with my disability, I still plan everything very tightly and limit the back and forth walking around parks. My wife complains when she goes to theme parks with my kids and they go with her friends and their kids because the kids want to go here and then there, or re ride a ride again later in the day, or take bad routes, etc.

 

[Jrb1979]

If saying the right words to a CM works, how would saying the right words to a third party not work?

We don’t know what the changes to Genie+ are that were waiting on this DAS revamp, but we can safely assume a price raise. So the incentive for getting DAS remains unchanged, the qualifications for DAS slightly changed and are still able to be faked, so really they’ve only punished the questionable users of DAS who have legitimate disabilities which maybe don’t always need full DAS.

They also took away a lot of the benefits of DAS. Party is limited to 4 and no pre books. There will always be the fakers but from what it sounds like they weren't the majority of the issue.

From a lot of what is said the main point of these changes is go back to how it used to be in regards to the DAS system. There is a lot of guests who don't necessarily need it that can physically wait in lines but got DAS as it made the day easier

 

[Disneylover99]

From a lot of what is said the main point of these changes is go back to how it used to be in regards to the DAS system. There is a lot of guests who don't necessarily need it that can physically wait in lines but got DAS as it made the day easier

Yes. And many people who didn’t really need it have been getting DAS every time they entered a park for years. Suddenly not having it is, is really going to be a shock to their system once they have to tour the parks without it.

 

[ClaraOswald]

I agree that since documentation is not required, then theoretically diagnosis is not required either. Does that mean anyone can self-diagnose to be having whatever condition gets them DAS? Clearly it's not the spirit of DAS. But if I were to describe my neurotypical 4yo, he would certainly qualify for not being able to stand in long lines. Because it's a perfectly normal behavior for a toddler/small child to be overwhelmed by crowds and noise, to have a meltdown and to need to go somewhere quiet. I wish all kids under 4/5 automatically qualified for some kind of accommodation and not be expected to stand in 120 min lines, which is completely not age-appropriate for them. But we all know that's not the purpose of DAS and it shouldn't be used this way.
However, saying medical diagnosis is not a prerequisite opens the door to little kids "needing" DAS. I pay for Genie+ as it's the only way we can do anything at Disney. Many DAS users are complaining about having to pay. Parents of little kids are already living this reality.

As someone else explained, a NT toddler having a hard time in line is NOT the same thing as a child with a DD having a meltdown. I can't decide if I want to me angry or if I want to laugh at the comparison.

The CMs will be trained and although it might be hard to detect an adult faker, it’s pretty evident whether a child has it or not (from personal experience with SPD).

Since DAS has been digital it will be easy for Disney to spot the fakers/cheaters now that they can see your ride history and the potential $$$$ spent per trip.

How does ride history or money spent indicate a faker? I'm not seeing the connection.

It’s just a theory of mine that some adults with DD’s will be asked to use a different accommodation than DAS in order to free up LL space. I know my oldest is slowly maturing and could probably handle rider switch as an adult. But my middle child will always need intense assistance. I think every person will be evaluated on a case by case basis.

I 100% agree that it should be done on a case by case basis. I'm hopeful the new process will be able to ask better questions and come up with appropriate accommodations for people who truly need them.

We’re at 141 pages and not a single theory how this change is going to cut down on abuse by those faking. We mostly all accept abuse is the catalyst for this change, so where’s the fix for that?

People need to stop being jerks who fake disabilities. But I don't see that happening, unfortunately.

Absolutely, a diagnosis doesn’t usually give e thorough picture of a disability.

Agreed, diagnosis is just a label and doesn't give a full picture.
I know this is controversial… but I really think In some cases it isn’t wrong to limit the DAS to the person with special needs and one other person (and I am very empathetic for all with disabilities as there are several family members of mine that struggle with life altering disabilities
My sister and her husband would take my nephews to Hershey Park a lot and their youngest was diagnosed with severe autism and was totally unable to wait for longer than maybe 15/ 20 minutes or so minutes.
At the time Hershey only allowed the person with the disability and one other person to ride using the alternate entrance .
They would split up to ride the rides with longer waits and then meet up to do the things with shorter waits that Jonathan could handle.
It wasn’t ideal, but they made it work. And just like families with typical kids some days were not great and others went smoothly.
I realize very few families would be willing to do this, but the reality is that Disney really only has to provide acclamations for the disabled person ( and a caregiver if the disabled person is a child or unable to be alone).
And it might be that in order to make the system a littler more equal Disney might have to ask some people (and their families) to make some compromises for a better experience for everyone.
I know separation can be very challenging (sometimes impossible) with autistic individuals. But in most families at least one parent works all day and the kids go to school.. so they have to be separate at least some for some amount of time when they are not at Disney world
Obviously, this is not possible for every person with autism and similar challenges.. And it won’t work in some scenarios (like single parents there with more than one child)

These situations are not the same at all to someone with a DD. I think the only way to truly understand it is to live with it 24/7. I'm not going to go into details because I don't want fakers to use it in their scripts. But you are just very, very wrong.

There's a saying that's something like "if you've met one person with autism, you've met ONE person with autism"...meaning every single person is vastly different. If something worked great for your nephew, that's fantastic. But that doesn't mean it's going to work for every autistic person, or even ANY other autistic person.

And not letting 2 parents every ride together with their kid on vacation?! Ridiculous.

 

[Lugan]

Ex. Non-DAS guests enters BTMR queue at 10, rides BTMR at 11, exits at 11:05. Then they spend 20 mins walking to Buzz (not sure if that's how long it would take, but just an example). Enter standby queue for Buzz at 11:25, ride at 12:05.

DAS guest requests return time online for BTMR at 10, gets return time of 10:50 (standby of 1 hr minus 10 mins). Gets in line, waits 10 mins (new change seems to indicate a 10 min wait before scheduling next ride) and right before they get on the ride, they are able to schedule return time for Buzz. Standby is 40 mins, so their return time is 11:30. Exits ride at 11:05, spends 20 mins walking to Buzz and it's not 11:25. They wait 5 mins and enter LL queue at 11:30, ride by 11:40.

They were able to get through those 2 rides quicker than the non-DAS user because they can be in that second line virtually while still in the LL for the first, and while they are walking to the second ride. A non-DAS user can't be in the line until they are physically in the line.

If we factor in current inflated standby waits, then the DAS user would then be waiting longer than the non-DAS user for that particular ride, but would it still be longer overall/throughout the day considering the factors above with being able to enter a line much sooner than a non-DAS user?

You specifically mentioned that if they remove the current ability for a DAS user to enter a standby line during their virtual wait for another ride, then they have to stop inflating standby waits to compensate. If they do that, a DAS user could *perceivably* get through several attractions in a quicker time. Now, I know that disabilities aren't always going to make something like that possible, nor am I saying that I think Disney should do this or that. This is merely an example of how it is *possible* (not guaranteed or applicable to ALL DAS users) for them to make it through lines quicker than a non-DAS guest.

Right, you highlight reasons why you can't compare a normal non-DAS guest's experience to a DAS guest's experience apples-to-apples.

Note, I didn't mention anything about the reported change to add a cool-down timer to the DAS request after tap-in. I think that this helps alleviate your stated concern about the double-line standing. You mention specifically BTMR, which has a second tap-in point, right before the stairway down. The 10 minute cool-down after that second tap-in will likely put you right in the middle of loading, the roller-coaster itself, or even after the ride, depending on how the CM are managing guests on the stairway and the timing of when you arrive to the second tap-in point.

In my experience, this really wasn't much of an issue. Most of the "bigger/E-ticket" attractions have a second tap-in point close to the loading of the vehicle making this mostly a non-issue. In those instances, I found it unwieldy to be trying to manage the group, get loaded up, experience the attraction and get my phone out to try to find the next attraction to request a return time. Most often, I wasn't able to request another time until after exiting the ride vehicle.

This significantly impacts your example. If the DAS user isn't able to book the return time for another 5 or 10 minutes (i.e., until after they've actually ridden), then the experience time is very close, assuming that standby time is spot on. Any variation to that time, or quicker pace to the non-DAS user's gait to Buzz Lightyear's, and the comparison also starts to be a non-issue. I'll note that at "Average" pace, touringplans estimates only a 10 minute walk from BTMR to Buzz Lightyear's. And, this is a pretty extreme example, going from one corner of the park to diagonally across the park.

 

[starlite_]

Disney isn't saying that "autism and similar" are the only issues that will be accommodated. Others will just be accommodated in ways other than DAS. ADA only requires accommodation, not an individual's preferred accommodation. IF (not saying it will in all instances) rider swap, leave the line, and any other accommodations Disney hasn't yet announced are able to accommodate an individual, then Disney is not obligated to provide DAS to that individual just because DAS is offered to others with different needs.

I want to yell this from the rooftops.

As someone put it 100 pages ago, DAS is meant to make Disney possible, not easier.

 

[2tinkerbell]

I have severe trauma induced arthritis in my back, left arm and wrist. In fact I am considered as having a physical disability. I was a concert pianist - Juilliard trained. I also have a total knee replacement and scheduled for another one. My DD and I love to ski. My DD is a fantastic skier. Had she not gone to Riverview School in MA, she would have qualified to be on the US Para Olympic Ski Team. Skiing is something we do. Frequently I would come home from work and we would drive to Park City for a couple of runs. We lived to ski. My DD needs accommodations. She either has to have the snow painted on the side of the run or someone needs to ski there so she doesn’t ski off the side of the mountain or cliff. However, I am no longer physically able to ski. I can no longer hold a pole in my left hand. I can’t handle the pain in my back. No amount of accommodation could make it possible for me to ski. The National Ability Center has tried everything with me as they know our love for skiing.

This is my point. Sometimes we need to make the very difficult decision that no matter how much we want to do something, no matter how others (Disney in this case) try to accommodate our particular needs, we simply can no longer do the thing we love. Does it suck? Yes, totally!!!

I think people need to make a decision, given the new parameters of accommodations Disney is able to do. If the accommodations still are able to work for you and your situation, great! If not, I can certainly feel for you and I have empathy but it is a fact that Disney can no longer sustain the amount of DAS users.

Disney is saying that the amount of individuals needing a DAS is interrupting their business. It is horrible when you wait in a virtual queue for 45 minutes to an hour, go to the attraction when it is your turn and then have to wait an additional 30 minutes in the LL. It is frustrating when you purchase the LL or ILL and then end up waiting 30 to 45 minutes. Clearly something has to be done for their every day operations to function.

Disney is drawing a new line in the sand. That is reality. Everyone needs to figure out if it will work or not. Everyone needs to figure out a different way or decide that going to the parks is no longer possible and find something else to enjoy.

 

[PrincessV]

On face value, according to Disney’s current verbiage, I’m one whose needs would no longer qualify for DAS because mine is not a developmental disorder (though I really believe my needs will fall under the “and similar” umbrella, since they’re the same needs that are accommodated by DAS for DDs.) I’ve been pondering the various alternate accommodation proposed here…

Return to Line via Check Points: let’s use a queue with an 80-min standby wait as an example. At the upper end, my tolerance for the queue is 15-20 minutes, so I’ll go with 20 to calculate and for ease let’s assume there actually is a check point every 20 mins. Each time I need to leave the line, I’ll be away 30 mins to accommodate my needs. That makes my total actual wait 170 mins or more - which is not equal to standby at all. I would simply not get into that queue at all and forgo experiencing the attraction.

Return to Line via LL: same 80-min queue… I wait 20 mins before needing to exit. Take 30 mins away to recover, then return via LL and wait 10 mins there - total 60 min wait for me. This works out great for me, but is actually giving me preferential treatment over standby Guests, which goes against the intent of disability accommodations! DAS would have been equal access.

Rider Switch: I’m either solo or with one other Guest most of the time, so this wouldn’t work at all. But sometimes I’m with a couple friends - RS would work fine for me in that scenario. But truthfully, my friends are locals who aren’t there primarily to do rides, but to spend time with me - I’d guess that most of the time they’d opt not to ride at all and I’d have to choose to either ride on my own via DAS, or skip the ride to spend time with them. Not a great situation or choice, but tolerable: it puts the onus on Guests to decide if the accommodation is worth using.

In the end, I’m one Guest and can’t extrapolate my scenarios across the board anymore than others can, but it’s an interesting exercise to think through - and I have to imagine Disney/ Inspire must be doin a lot of that in preparation. I’d hope, anyway!