DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Evita_W]

IMO, that wouldn’t work because again, the same disability can have very different needs.

Which is why I said the focus groups are also important, but those with disabilities understand the community far better than those without and understand more than most how needs vary. This is not a one or the other thing, but this is an initial concept should be by those with disabilities and then fleshed out to work for as many as possible.

 

[Evita_W]

My experience being in and leading focus groups obviously differs from what you are expecting.
My experience with focus groups is involvement at all levels

• beginning the discussion with what the focus group members think about current state, issues, need for change and brainstorming changes from their viewpoint
• representatives of the focus groups participate in writing policies/procedures, reviewing and revising
• focus group members trying out the revisions and suggesting revisions based on their experience
• Repeat as needed.

Cheshire Figment was a Moderator on this board and was a longtime WDW CM with disabilities. He was involved in some focus groups for the change from GAC to DAS

My experience with focus groups has always been, this is what we are planning to do, what minor tweaks can we make to it? Just know nothing major will change from this concept.

 

[lanejudy]

My experience with focus groups has always been, this is what we are planning to do, what minor tweaks can we make to it? Just know nothing major will change from this concept.

"Focus groups" can participate in a lot of different ways. Much depends on the intent of utilizing the focus group. And there may be different focus groups involved in different phases of a project. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney utilized several different focus groups, ranging from initial brainstorming ideas for change, straight through to the actual testing phase.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Disney isn’t going to waste legal fees or a lawyer’s salary responding to complaints threatening a lawsuit. They’ll respond in court. I also don’t expect them to “cave” and settle out of court on this - they’ll want the official ruling.

Not all lawyers are “litigators” — those specialize presenting a case in court during a trial. Most lawyers don’t actually spend much time in a courtroom.

I am a litigator (though I don’t work for Disney!) and understand what you’re saying (and I agree to an extent) but there can be advantages to responding (i.e. pointing out why bringing a case under the facts described in threat letter would subject the attorney to sanctions and/or discipline)—in any event, don’t want to get off topic and actually didn’t mention it originally because I didn’t want to clutter up the thread— but I did want to mention it because I’ve seen a lot of people on these threads mention suing Disney or confidently predicting that Disney is going to get successfully challenged in court— and my feeling is “be careful what you wish for” because I don’t think most judges (in either Orange County) are going to expect Disney to provide accommodations anywhere near as generous as DAS has been, and the actual ruling could end up much worse for the majority of current users.

 

[Philsfan77]

I am a litigator (though I don’t work for Disney!) and understand what you’re saying (and I agree to an extent) but there can be advantages to responding (i.e. pointing out why bringing a case under the facts described in threat letter would subject the attorney to sanctions and/or discipline)—in any event, don’t want to get off topic and actually didn’t mention it originally because I didn’t want to clutter up the thread— but I did want to mention it because I’ve seen a lot of people on these threads mention suing Disney or confidently predicting that Disney is going to get successfully challenged in court— and my feeling is “be careful what you wish for” because I don’t think most judges (in either Orange County) are going to expect Disney to provide accommodations anywhere near as generous as DAS has been, and the actual ruling could end up much worse for the majority of current users.

Your last sentence is and always has been the key for me. In most realms of disability services and from the education side of things (Special Education) the mindset is to function in the realm of least restrictive environment. In simple terms, that is to provide accommodations/modifications that allow the person with the disability to function as normally as possible with their peers, with as few restrictions as possible. DAS to me from education mindset would be like giving every one who qualifies Full-time Support, which is the highest level you can get. Normally you start with the lowest level of service and work your way up to someone needing the highest level of service. In Disney's case they've already started at arguably the highest level of service (short of saying you can come to the front of the line right now).

Unfortunately, when you start there, it is hard to go backwards, which I imagine is what's causing a lot of the frustration for some people. Even though other accommodations could work, might actually be very reasonable, once you've had a higher level of service, and know it works for you, and know it's made you have a successful park experience, it's hard to want to try something less than what you know can/does work.

 

[4Hawks]

Your last sentence is and always has been the key for me. In most realms of disability services and from the education side of things (Special Education) the mindset is to function in the realm of least restrictive environment. In simple terms, that is to provide accommodations/modifications that allow the person with the disability to function as normally as possible with their peers, with as few restrictions as possible. DAS to me from education mindset would be like giving every one who qualifies Full-time Support, which is the highest level you can get. Normally you start with the lowest level of service and work your way up to someone needing the highest level of service. In Disney's case they've already started at arguably the highest level of service (short of saying you can come to the front of the line right now).

Unfortunately, when you start there, it is hard to go backwards, which I imagine is what's causing a lot of the frustration for some people. Even though other accommodations could work, might actually be very reasonable, once you've had a higher level of service, and know it works for you, and know it's made you have a successful park experience, it's hard to want to try something less than what you know can/does work.

As someone who fought the public school system on behalf of both my children (and eventually gave up and moved them to private school), I can tell you that the intent and reasoning behind "least restrictive" environment sounds great in theory, but in reality is used to gatekeep access to services in order to save money. Making a child go through every level of service when they clearly need full services, and while they fall further behind, is completely counter-productive.

But getting back to DAS, I think adopting similar approach for Disney rides would be very convoluted, and I pray that they don't. Imagine having to start with the most basic accommodation and then keep having to return to guest services in order to "move up a level" until you find something that works.

 

[AJA]

But getting back to DAS, I think adopting similar approach for Disney rides would be very convoluted, and I pray that they don't. Imagine having to start with the most basic accommodation and then keep having to return to guest services in order to "move up a level" until you find something that works.

What if all they ever offer is the most basic accommodation according to the ADA because too many people are requesting to “move up a level”.

It would be better to have the option to move up for those with the greatest need than not at all because too many are requesting above what is absolutely needed.

I think Disney will do everything they can to accommodate as many as possible but it can’t continue like it is.

The bottom line is the parks are not going to continue to be as easy to navigate (with a free top of the line service) as they have been for some minor to moderate needs, there are just too many people requesting it, and that is affecting Disneys bottom line.

 

[Disneychick75]

What if all they ever offer is the most basic accommodation according to the ADA because too many people are requesting to “move up a level”.

It would be better to have the option to move up for those with the greatest need than not at all because too many are requesting above what is absolutely needed.

I think Disney will do everything they can to accommodate as many as possible but it can’t continue like it is.

The bottom line is the parks are not going to continue to be as easy to navigate (with a free top of the line service) as they have been for some minor to moderate needs, there are just too many people requesting it, and that is affecting Disneys bottom line.

The free top of the line service was the original GAC so give that an A+.
DAS as it is now is satisfactory so give it a B-. DAS is still very helpful but it doesn't touch GAC.

 

[PrincessV]

But getting back to DAS, I think adopting similar approach for Disney rides would be very convoluted, and I pray that they don't. Imagine having to start with the most basic accommodation and then keep having to return to guest services in order to "move up a level" until you find something that works.

This is something I’ve pondered too. And the thing is, I and I suspect most here had already exhausted the most basic “accommodations” we could come up with on our own before requesting DAS. I would hope explaining that “I've tried doing these dozen things to address my inability to wait in a traditional queue without success before I looked into DAS” will be taken into consideration under the new program as it has been under the old program. To ask a Guest who’s been visiting for many years to start over trying the same things that have failed in the past would be a waste of everyone’s time and patience.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

To ask a Guest who’s been visiting for many years to start over trying the same things that have failed in the past would be a waste of everyone’s time and patience.

But the parks aren't comprised of just these types of guests who go so often or decade after decade. I know the DIS tends to have very frequent visitors but the Disney parks aren't just that. That guest who is just first time visiting the parks or first time since they encountered their situation came about is just as much of a concern as anyone else when designing programs or making protocols for CMs.

Some of the posters even on this thread have mentioned it'll be the first time they've even done DAS (either before or after the announcements were made) and in some ways that ignorance is bliss may have been better for them (and it came through on some of their comments how unnerved they were of the changes). There is a point of getting too much information of how something was.

It's a bit of a confusing time right now though with having old and new rules potentially being in play

 

[sprem96]

This is something I’ve pondered too. And the thing is, I and I suspect most here had already exhausted the most basic “accommodations” we could come up with on our own before requesting DAS. I would hope explaining that “I've tried doing these dozen things to address my inability to wait in a traditional queue without success before I looked into DAS” will be taken into consideration under the new program as it has been under the old program. To ask a Guest who’s been visiting for many years to start over trying the same things that have failed in the past would be a waste of everyone’s time and patience.

Pandora's box had been opened when GAC came out, and Disney has been trying to close it since, regardless what outcome Disney ultimately settles on with DAS over the years, the damage is done, if they keep it roughly the same, leaves the door for abusers and overused program, if they tighten the limits it hurts the real users who were given a great option to help accommodate them (not their fault). Someone will always lose at this point no matter the path DAS takes over the years. Too much was given too openly from the start

To add to PrincessV point, I never even knew of DAS the first time I attempted theme parks after my diagnosis. It was after struggling so bad on that trip that on my next trip I decided to explore if parks offered anything for disabilities. It will be tough for most real DAS users to adapt (if at all). Seems counter productive, and insensitive if they tighten up a lot starting May 20th (or down the road). If they're saying the system is a problem, ultimately the blame falls on them as a company, they designed it with FP, GP+, ILL+ mixed in with GAC/DAS over the years. Comes down to who do they want to piss off the most and how much will it hurt their bottom line and image with how they handle accommodations. Sometimes saving a dollar today, can make you lose 2 dollars down the road; but doing nothing either can hurt too. Don't want to be their PR team these days lol

 

[starlite_]

To ask a Guest who’s been visiting for many years to start over trying the same things that have failed in the past would be a waste of everyone’s time and patience.

Some of those guests are the problem though. Some will be abusers/liars and some will be the "exaggerating" kind. If Disney grandfathered in everyone that currently has a DAS, it would solve nothing.

Honestly thought, I would expect someone that has been going for many years and tried lots of different things to help with managing lines would know how to explain their issues pretty well. Those folks should have nothing to worry about.

 

[ttintagel]

There's a lot Disney could do to make a regular day in the parks more accessible for everybody, so that fewer people needed accommodations. No, they're not required to do so, but knowing how many guests with disabilities come through their gates every day it seems short-sighted to not even consider that option.

If the standby queues were designed better, and if they were willing to hire enough staff to keep the people in standby from turning into a tightly-packed unruly mob, fewer people would have trouble going through them. I know it wouldn't make them accessible for EVERYBODY, but it would certainly help.

I know people who went during the social distancing period, who said that the standby queues were the most bearable they'd ever experienced. Designing or retrofitting queues without steps, with better lighting, without so many tight switchbacks or uneven flooring, with fewer narrow, closed-in spaces, could help a lot, along with having CMs in queues to keep guests from running around and pushing and crowding each other, and helping people who needed to get out quickly.

I remember back when Radiator Springs Racers was the hot new E-ticket, and Disney was whining about how disabled people were ruining it for everybody by clogging up the Fastpass queue. And then I read that the standby queue wasn't even wheelchair accessible. In the 21st century, KNOWING how many guests a day used the GAC, they CHOSE to build an inaccessible queue and then blamed disabled people for not being able to use it.

 

[OurBigTrip]

There's a lot Disney could do to make a regular day in the parks more accessible for everybody, so that fewer people needed accommodations. No, they're not required to do so, but knowing how many guests with disabilities come through their gates every day it seems short-sighted to not even consider that option.

If the standby queues were designed better, and if they were willing to hire enough staff to keep the people in standby from turning into a tightly-packed unruly mob, fewer people would have trouble going through them. I know it wouldn't make them accessible for EVERYBODY, but it would certainly help.

I know people who went during the social distancing period, who said that the standby queues were the most bearable they'd ever experienced. Designing or retrofitting queues without steps, with better lighting, without so many tight switchbacks or uneven flooring, with fewer narrow, closed-in spaces, could help a lot, along with having CMs in queues to keep guests from running around and pushing and crowding each other, and helping people who needed to get out quickly.

I remember back when Radiator Springs Racers was the hot new E-ticket, and Disney was whining about how disabled people were ruining it for everybody by clogging up the Fastpass queue. And then I read that the standby queue wasn't even wheelchair accessible. In the 21st century, KNOWING how many guests a day used the GAC, they CHOSE to build an inaccessible queue and then blamed disabled people for not being able to use it.

I thought Radiator Springs Racers was wheelchair accessible, as it was built well after the ADA became law.

 

[mcall12]

I thought Radiator Springs Racers was wheelchair accessible, as it was built well after the ADA became law.

Same. I think it’s the ECVs that can’t go into the standard queue? This is the info from the Disneyland website for accessibility of this attraction.

 

[dizneedoll]

Same. I think it’s the ECVs that can’t go into the standard queue? This is the info from the Disneyland website for accessibility of this attraction.

View attachment 855943

Ive been through the queue with a WC but ECV’s can go through too. It’s at the merge point that they will direct guests in WC/ECV up a separate ramp where they will load into the cars in a separate area than the general loading area as the cars are pulled off the main track to allow guests the time they need to load/unload.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Ive been through the queue with a WC but ECV’s can go through too. It’s at the merge point that they will direct guests in WC/ECV up a separate ramp where they will load into the cars in a separate area than the general loading area as the cars are pulled off the main track to allow guests the time they need to load/unload.

That’s what I thought.

The FP line being filled with GAC users when it first opened doesn’t mean they were all wheelchair users.

 

[keishashadow]

The bottom line is the parks are not going to continue to be as easy to navigate (with a free top of the line service) as they have been for some minor to moderate needs

IMO the issue will be Disney determining what exactly falls under minor/moderate/major needs.

And the thing is, I and I suspect most here had already exhausted the most basic “accommodations” we could come up with on our own before requesting DAS. I would hope explaining that “I've tried doing these dozen things to address my inability to wait in a traditional queue without success before I looked into DAS” will be taken into consideration under the new program as it has been under the old program. To ask a Guest who’s been visiting for many years to start over trying the same things that have failed in the past would be a waste of everyone’s time and patience.

So true

Some will be abusers/liars and some will be the "exaggerating" kind. If Disney grandfathered in everyone that currently has a DAS, it would solve nothing.

A liar is a liar.

IMO Abuse of DAS, is not something so cut & dried as many feel here. What’s that old adage? it’s not a real problem until it’s my problem? Need to be very careful as to judging. I do not envy Disney or their consulting company, hope they are fair, wise and compassionate in rolling out this accommodation.

We all know people who cope better than others who have the same, general challenges in life. some people are more stoic & others not the squeaky wheel sorts. Should they be the ones who are denied out of hand?

Any sort of accommodation is not going to materialize ala pixie dust. People really need to realize they need to advocate for themselves in this transition.