Custody removal

[aaarcher86]

What would define mental abuse/damage/stress, etc to a child from a parent?

How would you prove it's happening/happened?

And can you have custody removed because of it?

Too vague? Lol

 

[quentina]

What would define mental abuse/damage/stress, etc to a child from a parent?

How would you prove it's happening/happened?

And can you have custody removed because of it?

Too vague? Lol

As someone who adopted two children from foster care who were....abused.. starved to the point of being lifeflighted....unclean....cold (no winter coat etc)...and lived in horrific conditions.....let me say, it is difficult. The state believes that, no matter what, you need to be with your parents. My daughter was so malnourished, she needed a NG tube for nutrients and they expected the bio family to take care of it. SHe was 4.5 when she came to us....7 foster homes since they would pull her, put her back, pull etc.

Good luck....I need to say that the odds are for the parents.

Now, if you are one half of the parents and you can PROVE, beyond a doubt, you may get lucky. You need to have solid proof.

Good luck!

 

[Sparx]

If you suspect someone is abusing children you need to call the Department of Children's Services. Its their job to asses abusive situations.

 

[Sparx]

As someone who adopted two children from foster care who were....abused.. starved to the point of being lifeflighted....unclean....cold (no winter coat etc)...and lived in horrific conditions.....let me say, it is difficult. The state believes that, no matter what, you need to be with your parents. My daughter was so malnourished, she needed a NG tube for nutrients and they expected the bio family to take care of it. SHe was 4.5 when she came to us....7 foster homes since they would pull her, put her back, pull etc.

Good luck....I need to say that the odds are for the parents.

Now, if you are one half of the parents and you can PROVE, beyond a doubt, you may get lucky. You need to have solid proof.

Good luck!

This is no longer true.

"The State" has been under a lot of scrutiny the past 20 or so years about not removing children who need to be removed and children floating around in foster care for years. There are now laws in place that state that a child can only have 15 months to be replaced in a parents care.

At the point the child comes into care the FC workers begin not only making a plan to put the children back in the parents care but they also do concurrent planning to terminate parental rights. Within 15 months the child is either at home with their parents (who have preformed all of the necessary actions to make their home safe for children) or they are in foster care up for adoption and their parents parental rights have been terminated.

 

[quentina]

This is no longer true.

"The State" has been under a lot of scrutiny the past 20 or so years about not removing children who need to be removed and children floating around in foster care for years. There are now laws in place that state that a child can only have 15 months to be replaced in a parents care.

At the point the child comes into care the FC workers begin not only making a plan to put the children back in the parents care but they also do concurrent planning to terminate parental rights. Within 15 months the child is either at home with their parents (who have preformed all of the necessary actions to make their home safe for children) or they are in foster care up for adoption and their parents parental rights have been terminated.

My kids were adopted 7-30-08. It will be 2 years in a few weeks. I hope it's no longer true, to be quite frank, the entire situation sucked!! We continue to deal with the trauma they suffered and probably will for many years.

 

[Sparx]

My kids were adopted 7-30-08. It will be 2 years in a few weeks. I hope it's no longer true, to be quite frank, the entire situation sucked!! We continue to deal with the trauma they suffered and probably will for many years.

Concurrent planning definitely should have been in place at the time those children were adopted, however it may not have been instituted when they went into custody (which would be where the issue lies).

The norm used to be children floating around in foster care without being adopted because the parental rights hadn't been terminated for years and years. Parental rights are now terminated very very quickly or the family is restored. However, sadly many children still stay in foster care for years after being terminated. There just aren't enough adoptive parents looking in the foster care system.

This link has more information about the implementation and practice of Concurrent planning. It even has the information given to the caseworkers who are doing this job.
http://www.childwelfare.gov/permanency/overview/concurrent.cfm

 

[aaarcher86]

It sounds like it would be difficult.

The children are my Uncle's.

The family has steadily watched their mother mentally screw up these kids - but so far there hasn't been anything we can do about it as far as we can find.

It's incredibly difficult to prove it because of how it's done.

For example: Our entire family goes to CJ's (9) little league football games. His father, my husband (CJ's cousin) and my father in law (CJ's Uncle) are 3/5coaches and always have been because they love it. Their mother would go to lengths to tell Sami how it hurts her feelings when she talks to us, or waves to us, etc.) causing Sami to refuse to speak to us if her mother was around. Her mother would leave, Sami would look around make sure was gone and would run up and give hugs like she normally does.

I know it sounds like it's not a big deal in writing but it's honestly very difficult to watch the stress this poor little girl (mostly her because CJ is too old to be influenced that easily) get flustered and confused regularly when her mother is around.

It's bad enough that friends of their mothers have realized what she's doing and completely cut her out of their lives. It's incredibly difficult - Samantha just a few days ago told me personally, 'my mommy said my daddy lies. I asked her what about and she just cried until I said I was sorry and wanted her to be happy.' It's honestly disgusting to me.

I'm sure I'm not expaining it well... it's just incredibly obvious that their mother is trying to implant ideas and thoughts into their heads so that they say things (that she's put in their heads) thinking that's the way it is. She is terrified that when the kids are older their dad will tell the kids about her affair. She's truly a mix of Kate Gosselin (controlling) and Danielle Staub (the victim/crazy). The fact that their father moved on, got re-married a few days ago and purchased a new house has her livid. A guardian was brought into the court hearings who completely dismissed her repeated requests for full custody and was hoping to give ther father more custody then he was initially asking for. He's a fireman though, and his schedule didnt allow it.

It's hard hearing something that she has told them that is completely inaccurate. Do you tell them the truth or let it go so that you don't cause them more stress and confusion. It's awful.

I've just noticed lots of 'advice' threads on lots of different situations and thought maybe someone had been in a similar situation.

The children are well fed, have a roof over there heads - everything they physically need with their mother is there and taken care of. It's completely emotional. But at what point is she scarring them enough that you can get them out of that situation?

 

[JoiseyMom]

It sounds like she is doing Parental Alienation. That is grounds for custody changes if it is proven. Some courts/states don't recognize it though. Good luck to your uncle! SInce he just remarried, he should speak to the GAL again, with a wife inthe picture maybe custody won't be that much of an issue anymore??

 

[Holly]

The children's father should take them to a family therapist if he suspects parental alienation. A good therapist will be his best ally if your suspicions are correct.

 

[bumbershoot]

It's hard hearing something that she has told them that is completely inaccurate. Do you tell them the truth or let it go so that you don't cause them more stress and confusion. It's awful.

My dad used to lie about my mom. I always went straight to my mom about it. It was much easier knowing the truth.

 

[Mommee]

The children's father should take them to a family therapist if he suspects parental alienation. A good therapist will be his best ally if your suspicions are correct.

+1

Around here, they use grades and "community standing" as the yardstick. If the child's grades nosedive, or they're getting into legal trouble, then there is cause for concern. If that isn't happening, the courts assume that it isn't causing the child more damage than disrupting a custody situation would.

BUT in the real world that's not always true. A therapist can help the kids sort through things and give them coping skills.

 

[sunnyday123]

+1

Around here, they use grades and "community standing" as the yardstick. If the child's grades nosedive, or they're getting into legal trouble, then there is cause for concern. If that isn't happening, the courts assume that it isn't causing the child more damage than disrupting a custody situation would.

BUT in the real world that's not always true. A therapist can help the kids sort through things and give them coping skills.

Exactly. And the courts aren't going to remove custody from a parent because they are bad-mouthing the other. I agree with the PP who said to contact a therapist-which might also have to go through the court system if the Mother refuses to take them. Group counseling for all of them might not be a bad idea, either. Divorced or not, they are still parents and need to act like it.

 

[cabanafrau]

The father needs to contact his attorney and work with the Court to revisit the issue, or have his attorney contact the guardian ad litem if they are still a part of this case.

Therapy will probably be necessary, however don't rely on the therapist hired by the father to hold much power with the Court. The best avenue would be to have the guardian ad litem recommend to the Court that the child needs to have counseling to address the attempts at parental alienation. If the therapist is retained/selected through the GAL, their reports will be viewed by the Court as more objective -- therefore more reliable.

 

[aaarcher86]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I remember reading about parental alienation syndrome and thinking that is exactly what it was. Going through all the 'symptoms' - it was spot on.

I do believe he's looking for a therapist for the kids. He also put them in a banana splits group for kids with divorced parents.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I came from a seriously messed up home. I was never removed but ended up with a therapist as a teen and that therapist was the biggest blessing I could have hoped for. Now, as an adult, I realize that while the therapist was pretty useless for helping me out with her skills there were 2 pretty monumental ways she did help me. First, she was there for me and only me and I felt validated by the simple fact she never told me I was wrong or lying. Second, and more importantly, her very presence in my life offered me a protection. My parents didn't want to end up in jail so out of fear they backed off just enough to give me room to survive intact. As a result, I am a huge advocate of getting a third party into a child's life. This third party can be a therapist, a school guidance counselor, a teacher but shouldn't be a close family member or friend because the outsiders carry a great deal more weight with both the courts and with the parents (the abusive person won't feel as confident that they can manipulate the situation). Also, the courts will hear an impartial child advocate's words differently than they will a friend who could be motivated to help one parent over another due to loyalty. Believe me, get an outsider in there with the kid and you stand a chance of saving that kid. Saved my life.

good luck