Copper Creek & Riviera

Jelly563

Mouseketeer
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
With these two new buildings in the mix, do you think that booking could get a little easier ? or is the opposite true, more points = more people = more requests. I saw that Copper Creek added 40 studios, 33ish 1br, 52ish 2brs & lockoffs. I want to believe that more rooms available to book means more availability for the masses. Small contracts = less days. Are we headed in the right direction ??
 

_auroraborealis_

I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
With these two new buildings in the mix, do you think that booking could get a little easier ?
Doubtful.

1. Copper Creek is selling more than a million points against the cabins. Most people aren't buying sufficient points to book cabins. This will continue pressure on smaller units, especially studios. They added very few studios.

2. Any resale contracts purchased after 1/19/19 will not have booking privileges at Riviera if at the original 14. Most owners sell within 10-15 years. This also means pressures will continue.
 

Wakey

DIS Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
I agree the cabins at Copper Creek (which are available often only a few weeks out) have caused massive availibility issues not only for studios but even 1 and 2 beds at Copper Creek.
Even 11 months out at Xmas, all 1 beds over the 10 day period I wanted were gone for many of the nights. That is unheard of.
There will be a lot of frustrated owners at CCV, who need to book smaller units at other resorts at 7 months. In other words, it's made the situation worse.
There was massive profits to be made though with those cabins.
 
  • _auroraborealis_

    I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    New units also mean new points in the system. New units don't just make more units available against old points.
     

    bwvBound

    DVC SSR & other timeshare
    Joined
    Feb 5, 2004
    agreeing with above ... AND ... new owners tend to be more "hot" to book their new timeshare trinket. Old owners might be more relaxed, "been there, done that" and open to choices outside the DVC resort system.
     

    DSLRuser

    Age is a state of mind
    Joined
    Feb 28, 2009
    With these two new buildings in the mix, do you think that booking could get a little easier ? ??
    it will always be the same....past resorts are all 100% declared...therefore "sold out"...as new resorts come on line...they declare rooms as sold.....so...in theory.....DVC is always in a "sold out" state
     

    DSLRuser

    Age is a state of mind
    Joined
    Feb 28, 2009
    Doubtful.

    1. Copper Creek is selling more than a million points against the cabins. Most people aren't buying sufficient points to book cabins. This will continue pressure on smaller units, especially studios. They added very few studios.
    Agree here....we own Copper Creek.....renting a cabin is no where near ever being a possibility. those things account for a lot of points to be sold....but in most cases....cabins dont get booked. I would love to see how often they go unused for points and get rented via hotel side for cash
     

    Wakey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 22, 2015
    Agree here....we own Copper Creek.....renting a cabin is no where near ever being a possibility. those things account for a lot of points to be sold....but in most cases....cabins dont get booked. I would love to see how often they go unused for points and get rented via hotel side for cash
    A lot I suspect.
     

    kniquy

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 15, 2014
    With these two new buildings in the mix, do you think that booking could get a little easier ? or is the opposite true, more points = more people = more requests.
    I do not think availability is going to get any better, in fact with rising direct point prices people can afford less points.

    The price per point is very high and I believe they get many people to buy in to get studios - for example a week in a CCV studio can cost 120 points - so your buy in will be around $20K -- that is a lot but for many it is doable. Jump up to a 1BR for that same week 255 points - now your up around $45,000. There are far less people willing to hand over $45K so they will sell the smaller contracts which means that everyone is fighting for the studios. Which is why studio availability is so tough.
     

    Spridell

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 16, 2016
    Agree here....we own Copper Creek.....renting a cabin is no where near ever being a possibility. those things account for a lot of points to be sold....but in most cases....cabins dont get booked. I would love to see how often they go unused for points and get rented via hotel side for cash
    I was one of those people who went hotel side for a Cabin before I purchased a DVC Contract at CCV. Since then I personally know 3 families that went hotel side for cash with the Cabins.

    So I agree and I think a lot of people book hotel side for the Cabins.
     

    crvetter

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 26, 2018
    I was one of those people who went hotel side for a Cabin before I purchased a DVC Contract at CCV. Since then I personally know 3 families that went hotel side for cash with the Cabins.

    So I agree and I think a lot of people book hotel side for the Cabins.
    If you reserved it more than 60 days out then it was booked with DVC points just Disney owned points. So effectively Disney was renting their points. However if they were booked less than 60 days (which are the ones that matter to association owners and should be concerned) then they are breakage and no points were used to remove from the association.
     
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    _auroraborealis_

    I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    If you reserved it 60 days out then it was booked with DVC points just Disney owned points. However if they were booked within 60 days (which are the ones that matter and should be concerned) then they are breakage and no points were used to remove from the association.
    This is misleading - I think you mean "more than" and "less than." Disney's points can be used 11 months out, which moves inventory to cash for that window. Breakage occurs at 60 days.
     

    crvetter

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 26, 2018
    This is misleading - I think you mean "more than" and "less than." Disney's points can be used 11 months out, which moves inventory to cash for that window. Breakage occurs at 60 days.
    I cleaned it up some. I meant to highlight the difference that breakrage is the one we should be concerned about. If booked more than 60 days out on cash then technically a DVC owner is booking them it’s just Disney using their points.
     

    Spridell

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 16, 2016
    If you reserved it more than 60 days out then it was booked with DVC points just Disney owned points. So effectively Disney was renting their points. However if they were booked less than 60 days (which are the ones that matter to association owners and should be concerned) then they are breakage and no points were used to remove from the association.
    Wow that is interesting stuff I never knew that. Thanks.

    Yeah when I booked cash for the cabins I made the reservation about 10 months out.
     

    drusba

    I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    Agree here....we own Copper Creek.....renting a cabin is no where near ever being a possibility. those things account for a lot of points to be sold....but in most cases....cabins dont get booked. I would love to see how often they go unused for points and get rented via hotel side for cash
    To see full effect one needs to wait until CCV is closer to sell-out, but currently CCV cabins have been doing the following, similar to bungalows at Poly: during the high demand season from late Sep to marathon weekend in Jan, they often fill, not necessarily by 7 months out, but usually well before the 60 day breakage period. For the low to moderate period, from mid-Jan to late Sep, the cabins have thus far this year, for most dates from mid-Jan to now April 25, 2019, shown to be still available at the 60-day breakage date, and then disappear by about 30 to 35 days out.
     
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    The Jackal

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 24, 2017
    To see full effect one needs to wait until CCV is closer to sell-out, but currently CCV cabins have been doing the following, similar to bungalows at Poly: during the high demand season from late Sep to marathon weekend in Jan, they often fill, not necessarily by 7 months out, but usually well before the 60 day breakage period. For the low to moderate period, from mid-Jan to late Sep, the cabins have thus far this year, for most dates from mid-Jan to now April 25, 2019, shown to be still available at the 60-day breakage date, and then disappear by about 30 to 35 days out.
    When we did the DVC tour, the guide said that Disney has a lot of people who are willing to pay cash for the Bungalows and cabins. Seems like Disney should have built them and sold a couple to DVC and kept the rest for themselves. They seem to be making money on them and get to keep it.
     

    drusba

    I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    When we did the DVC tour, the guide said that Disney has a lot of people who are willing to pay cash for the Bungalows and cabins. Seems like Disney should have built them and sold a couple to DVC and kept the rest for themselves. They seem to be making money on them and get to keep it.
    The Disney person who came up with the idea of the DVC bungalows (later carried over to the cabins) probably got a huge bonus. Disney unlikely would have ever built those as just hotel rooms -- too costly to build and maintain and you would need to charge high dollars to rent them as hotel rooms and they would not likely always be rented.

    Making them DVC was the ideal solution. Disney gets on-the-lake promotional rooms to show in a lot of pictures about WDW. The cost of building them is recovered, plus a huge profit, by selling all the applicable points to DVC Members. The Poly (and CCV) DVC members then pay for the maintenance, repair, and other costs of operating them through member dues. Then, as Disney undoubtedly suspected when setting the extremely high per night point cost for the rooms, when many of the bungalows and cabins remain unreserved by members at 60 days out many times of the year, Disney gets to rent them for almost pure profit and loses nothing when not rented.
     
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    Mumof4mice

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 4, 2018
    Unfortunately the reallocation to reduce the point requirements of of bungalows and cabins down to "affordable as a splurge" (as opposed to bat **** crazy) may be the only way to reduce the excessive breakage and ease the 7 month pressure on the rest of the resorts.

    PVB and CCV owner here.
     

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