Competition and children. Why are they a hot button topic?

[kidzmom3]

Why is anything that is essentially competitive (in any genre sports, academia or the arts) such a hot button topic?

Is it because some people honestly believe that any competition in children is undesirable? I feel that many times parents take the brunt of the complaints. In that if you have your child compete, you are a bad parent. That you are trying to "live" through your kids. That you "push" them. You are a "stage" parent.

the American Academy of Pediatrics says that :
As with most aspects of parenting, being actively involved and talking with your children about their life is very important. Being proud of accomplishments, sharing in wins and defeats, and talking to them about what has happened helps them develop skills and capacities for success in life. The lessons learned during children's sports will shape values and behaviors for adult life.

I have been trying to do some research about what age a child should participate in competitive sports and I haven't found a clear age. Most experts appear to say that it depends on the child's development. Involving both their physical and mental development. The major consensus that I found (searching about 8 sites online) is that by 8 most children are ready to interact in sports and can understand the rules and how to play.

What do you think? Does the cost of most competitive sports factor in to some parents disdain?

 

[Alyssa88]

I see nothing wrong with competition I used to attend dance competitions and I learned great lessons about discipline and commitment whiel learning a skill and an art (and a way to express myself). I started dancing as soon as I could walk and I joined a company when I was 8. That was when I started competing and performing alot.

However, i do have a problem when it is something the parents want and not the child- for example- my old dance teacher has a 4 year old. This child was in more pieces than her mother ever was in her last recital. She was in her first dance at the age of 4 months, really it was her on stage while someone shook her hips . She was in her first solo when she was 3, too young in my opinion. She cries on stage alot and is under alot of pressure. IMHO it is another form of child abuse. Parents should not live vicariously through their children.

I also think that pageants are disgusting. They make me sick. These kids are being shown off like livestock. They look so trashy. I used to know alot of girls who were in pageants and I have been to a few, (never in one- my mom would never allow me) and I saw the same things everywhere. I hate pageants.

 

[chobie]

I've seen the opposite. I've been bashed here on the Dis for being for no-score sports teams and told I was not teaching my non athletic kids how to be "good losers." It was not enough to put my kids in sports to for the exercise and team work experience. I was being overprotective. My kids don't like sports. I believe in healthy competition but I don't think that is the only purpose of sports and I don't believe sports is the only way for children to learn about winning and losing .

 

[iloveboardwalk]

I think there is a huge difference between appreciating the positive influence that competition can have in a child's life and being a "stage mom" I love sports, I love competition and I love kids being involved froma young age.

I was a competitive gymanst for many, many years. After I stopped competing, I coached level 5 and 6 team girls as well as a bunch of rec classes. Honestly, I loved it and would still be doing it full time if I didn't have to deal with the parents.

My guess is that a full 50% of the parents think their little Ms. cute, motivated and terrifc person, but total klutz, is going to be the next Mary Lou Retton. The parents take it so damn seriously, it really floors me.

I knew my parents were proud of me, and they supported me, but they were just not that into my sport, because it was my sport. They didn't watch practices and they didn't even come to every single meet, just the sectionals and state and national type stuff, when I made it, I was good, but not THE BEST. I just cannot believe how involved some of these parents are.

So, my view is from a coach's perspective. The kids are awesome, I love the kids but many of the parents are a pain in the ***.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Why is anything that is essentially competitive (in any genre sports, academia or the arts) such a hot button topic?

Is it because some people honestly believe that any competition in children is undesirable? What do you think? Does the cost of most competitive sports factor in to some parents disdain?

Hot button topic...because everyone has there own idea of what is "best" and no one agrees. So the "rules" are always changing and it is really irritating.
(HECK even in PROFESSIONAL sports this is the case! )

I think for the most part parents agree with competition. It is the majority and people that lead you to believe it is not, is baloney.

My girls are into music and academic competitions...no sports.

As far as "cost", that is a factor although I think "time" is a bigger one.
Sports are time consuming. Have to ask if your family/child can handle it. Is it a benefit for them to handle it.
That is really a personal thing.

 

[auntpolly]

My guess is that a full 50% of the parents think their little Ms. cute, motivated and terrifc person, but total klutz, is going to be the next Mary Lou Retton. The parents take it so damn seriously, it really floors me.

I just have to comment on this for a minute - and not to criticize you - but just to point out that even the parents with kids who are not the top athletes have the right to really get into it with their kids ands and behave like they think their kid is going to be a winner. Why would you compete if you didn't think "Maybe I'll be the next winner!" ?

Frankly it was the parents of the kids who were the team stars that were frightening on my DD's swim team - I don't know, most of their kids burned out before they ever got a chance to show what they could do in college or the Olympics, but the way they acted like everything that happened on the team was a life of death matter.

Me going nuts cheering in the stands for my DD who was good, but not the next Diana Munz pales in comparison to the parents of the superstars who were constantly trying to get coaches fired, petitions signed, and workouts changed to suit the needs of their kids as if none of the others less talented mattered.

Competition is good for kids - my DD, now grown, is a better person for having competed in sports.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Well said, TMM.

I think time is a huge factor. If you have any life outside the sport, you are in trouble. We do winter soccer, etc. indoors, because we are busy with so many other things we enjoy more during the decent months of the year. With 3 boys, you either make the committment to be a "sport" parent, or not.

As far as competitition, with 3 boys, everything is a competition, whether it is a bike race, or doing spelling...

 

[ChrisFL]

I just have to comment on this for a minute - and not to criticize you - but just to point out that even the parents with kids who are not the top athletes have the right to really get into it with their kids ands and behave like they think their kid is going to be a winner. Why would you compete if you didn't think "Maybe I'll be the next winner!" ?

I think i can help answer this one. My mother has been a figure skating coach for over 30 years. The problem isn't that they think their kid can succeed, the problem is when they say "my child IS going to the olympics".

Then the parents try to do their own coaching on the side if they come when their main coach isn't working on that session, even if they've never stepped foot on the ice.

If things aren't going exactly right, they'll keep switching coaches. Ten years pass and their now nearly grown child is still skating at the same level and they don't know who else to blame.

Parents can't face the facts that their children maybe aren't the most talented.

My mother has also told me on many occassions that it wasn't like this 20-30 years ago. It's a more recent thing.

 

[golfgal]

It isn't the competition that is the bad thing it is the parents that push their kids to the extreme because they are going to be professional athletes when they grow up. The chances of that happening are about zero. There is absolutely nothing wrong with letting your kids play sports, learn an instrument, take dance, be in the chess club, etc. but when it becomes the entire focus of your life, you have an issue.

Yes, there are some kids that truly have a passion to play a sport at a very young age and they want to be out there everyday playing but usually they are there because they like the game and want to be with their friends.

I have had parent that will video tape every game then go home after the game and go frame by frame of the game and show their kid what they did wrong. They also take "stats" during that time and if our stats didn't exactly match their stats, they would call use to change them??? THIS is what is wrong with kids and competition.

When I was growing up all of our practices were during the day with college age kids as coaches. The only parents that really came to watch the games were the few moms that drove the carpool to the games. Parents NEVER came to practice. It was a blast, no pressure, kids had fun and they learned WAY more then they do with their parents coaching them now.

 

[Disney Doll]

Don't have kids. Have many nieces and nephews (both by blood and by love) that I have gone to watch participate in numerous competitive events over the years...both athletic and non-athletic.

My observations are the 85% of the time, it is the parents who are the problem. There are the parents who think "everyone should win" or "everyone should get a trophy"...well, I don't really agree with that. I think kids need to learn, at a reasonable age, that there is always someone who is going to be "better" at something than you are. It teaches them how to handle disappointment, how to bounce back, maybe even how to turn that disappointment around.

Then there are the parents who think that their child is the star and the whole group needs to revolve around their child and his/her needs. These are usually the parents who have no life and are living vicariously through their 9 year old, which is a sad state of affairs when you really think about it.

Then there are the parents who think they know more than the coach/leader.

Then there are the parents who think that their child or child's team/group needs to win at all costs. There are many coaches/leaders like that too.

There are very few parents who just sit there and say "Good job. You tried your best".

What I have seen this do is suck most of the fun out of organized sports/group competition events for the kids.

And ChrisFL, your mothe ris right. I was in organized sports 20-30 years ago and it wasn't like this. Parents just seemed to be parents, not hovering helicopters, ready to make sure thier babies avoided every disappointment or heartache in life.

 

[iloveboardwalk]

I just have to comment on this for a minute - and not to criticize you - but just to point out that even the parents with kids who are not the top athletes have the right to really get into it with their kids ands and behave like they think their kid is going to be a winner. Why would you compete if you didn't think "Maybe I'll be the next winner!" ?

Of course they have the "right" to do anything they want. But I've seen levels of "involvement" that are just beyond normal and healthy. I once got a three page letter from a mom explaining why the 45 minute rec class for 6-7 year olds really should be changed to one hour.

 

[FayeW]

I think that it's a hot button topic because of a couple of reasons:

1) The competitive structure (whether it's sports, dance, cheer, band, drama) seems to be very extreme. I read posts here all the time from parents who's children are participating or practicing in their sport or whatever 4, 5 or 6 times a week, sometimes for 2 or 3 hours at a time! Some of the activites take place 30-60 mins away from home so many of these kids are literally spending all of their after school hours either at their sport, or travelling. For many parents, myself included, it seems ridiculous and obsessive.

2) Many parents seem to bestow god-like powers to the coaches and instructors. From what I read here, it seems that these people are allowed to physically abuse the children (extreme practices for punishment for missing a practice, etc), they can insist on practice (for school sports, band, etc) during summer and Christmas breaks, and the parents are afraid to speak up and be a parent to their kids because they are afraid the coaches will retaliate against their child and not play them, etc. That is so wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin. First off, if your child is in that kind of environment where that type of behaviour is allowed (and encouraged by the fact that the parents don't put a stop to it) you need to have your head examined!!

My son participates in house and rec league soccer and hockey. He rarely misses games (but has missed games for both sports because of family vacations), and occasionally he misses practices. He missed hockey practice Sunday morning because, horror of horrors, we went out as a family on Saturday night, and he got to bed very late. I made a decision for him to miss practice so that he could sleep in and be well rested for the game he had at 1:00 pm. I felt his team would appreciate a well rested team mate who could contribute more than one who was exhausted. By the way, he had an incredible game. On the way out of the dressing room after the game the coach said "I hope you are making his favourite meal, because he played an amazing game today."

It's all about balance. Healthy competition = good. Obsessive competition that dictates family time and sucks up every moment of a child's free time = CRAZY.

 

[auntpolly]

Of course they have the "right" to do anything they want. But I've seen levels of "involvement" that are just beyond normal and healthy. I once got a three page letter from a mom explaining why the 45 minute rec class for 6-7 year olds really should be changed to one hour.

I believe me I've seen it all - I know what you mean. I was just responding to your comment about the kids who "won't be the next Mary Lou Retton".

I'm not doubting what you say, not at all, but when DD was on swim team for all those years, it was the kids who were the potential great swimmers who had the lunatic parents.

I remember going to a meeting called by the top swimmers' parents to disuss "the problem with the head coach" - and basically the problem was he didn't seem to see the huge talent he'd been called to be the steward of and was not doing all he could to mold and develope the kids with potential -- they wanted us all to approach him and tell him they wanted work outs to suit their kids and lots of other stuff -- I remember making some little joke and having one of the moms yell and me and tell me "this was serious stuff and no laughing matter".

We were talking about middle school swimmers! I look back and wonder how I managed to survive the divo and diva moms!

 

[Becky2005]

Oh, I don't know...it all depends on the set-up.

Let's see my DD did some ice skating competitions way before the age of 8. My older DS did one at age 4! Those were all optional. The learning to skate part wasn't a competition.

My DD competes in gymnastics and trust me now at age 12, it's no longer just for fun...she has a bit of a vegence for the competition edge! I don't know where it came from but there is one club that their goal is to beat them. Probably because the girls from the other club are better than they are, so it's now just become a goal to get better scores than they do (the girls say this, not the coaches). However, with these competitions you have no idea what place you got until they tell you at the end of the meet because you don't even know who you are competing against (you stick with your team the entire rotation but it's broken up by ages for awards, so you have no idea which girls from the other team you are actually competing against). There are girls as young as 6 at these competitions. I think my DD was about 7ish or so when she started. Ours is also through the park district though so it's a more low-key than an elite gym. My DD though has always been the type that loves competitions, loves being out there. She is usually doing 50 things at once, that fits her personality. At the moment, she is in orchestra & choir at school plus just recently tried out for the musical & got a part. So right now life is on crazy until the musical is over with. Tonight she has musical practice & then her orchestra concert, so she's missing gymnastics for that. She also competes on the park district cheerleading team. She also knows though when she doesn't want to continue something. She is dropping orchestra next year in favor of choir. I do know one of her goals is to make it on the High School gymnastics team though. She would drop cheerleading in a second to do gymnastics IF she can't do both. IF she could do both of them, she would prefer to do both.

On the other hand my DS-6 just started playing basketball. He has never played basketball in his life. IF they actually kept score & made it into a real game at this level it would stink. We did this program for him to *learn* how to play the game in the first place. I'm not sure if I ever see him learning it well enough to compete (he has some motor skill delays so just getting him to dribble correctly is a feat in & of itself!). I have no problems with the older kids playing it with keeping score & to win, etc... His personality would not be one that could handle doing 10 different things at once nor competitions right at the moment.

My 10 year old DS does karate. He has not done any competitions yet & I'm not sure he wants to. Maybe next time around. We are in the limbo stage right now but first I want to take him to watch a competition and then decide.

I see a place for both competitive sports & just for fun versions. I can easily see my DD being go for the competitive version of something & my 6 year old not wanting to do the competitive version.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't mind what parents do with their kids.

But after watching some of the auditions on AI--I do believe there are parents out there who are not honest with themselves about their kiddos.

There is being supportive, there is having a defeatist attitude (is that a phrase), and then there is being way way way way incorrect about the skills of their child to think they are the next ______________.


With my daughters--they do their activities b/c it is fun and/or they want to learn.

I'm in a bind--and just found out I wasn't the only mom who thought this just recently:

After watching SYTYCD last season--I was amazed at the number of dance instructors that cannot dance...in the sense that it isn't that they are not amazing..not everyone can be. But they just do not have the moves correct.

Well--imagine my surprise when the class we chose this year..had a particular teacher assigned. She is a youngin' (like maybe 19 or so). She helped out with DD's dance class last year as a student helper and then filled in when the regular teacher/studio owner had her baby. No biggie.

Well then I watch the recital and teacher is dancing with her classes. Bless her heart--I'm sure she tries as well as she can...but dancing even if she can do pointe...is NOT her forte.

In any case--this is who my daughter got as her full time teacher this year.

My philosophy--if I am PAYING for a dance class..I expect someone qualified to be teaching it. I don't expect my child to be a Rockette or dance for the NYC ballet. But I do expect that she will learn appropriate technique that can be modeled by the instructor.

It drives me nuts and I will be requesting to not have her next year--even though she is very nice.

My daughter does this for fun...and she enjoys the shows.

But just like you might learn a new language for fun--you wouldn't learn it from someone who cannot pronounce the words correctly. B/c then you aren't learning it.

 

[iloveboardwalk]

I believe me I've seen it all - I know what you mean. I was just responding to your comment about the kids who "won't be the next Mary Lou Retton".

I'm not doubting what you say, not at all, but when DD was on swim team for all those years, it was the kids who were the potential great swimmers who had the lunatic parents.

I remember going to a meeting called by the top swimmers' parents to disuss "the problem with the head coach" - and basically the problem was he didn't seem to see the huge talent he'd been called to be the steward of and was not doing all he could to mold and develope the kids with potential -- they wanted us all to approach him and tell him they wanted work outs to suit their kids and lots of other stuff -- I remember making some little joke and having one of the moms yell and me and tell me "this was serious stuff and no laughing matter".

We were talking about middle school swimmers! I look back and wonder how I managed to survive the divo and diva moms!

I know what you mean, it IS the more talented kid's parents wo are more liekly to be nuts.

However, I've seen it with the average and just awful kids too. The thing was, it ruined coaching for me because more than coaching the teams, I LOVED teaching the rec classes. I never could understand why the parents couldn;t just let the kids have fun, even though the kid has no hope of ever turning a backhandspring. My rec classes rocked. We danced and ran around and did fun circuits and leanred the basics and the kids left sweaty and smiley. The kids who showed a natural ability were quickly moved up to the pre-team classes. The kids who did not were left in the rec classes where I was not training them for competition but was teaching them that basic strength and conditioning can be fun. But "fun" is not a priority for a lot of the parents.



I just couldn't take the stage moms.

 

[mom2rb]

I think that it's a hot button topic because of a couple of reasons:



2) Many parents seem to bestow god-like powers to the coaches and instructors. From what I read here, it seems that these people are allowed to physically abuse the children (extreme practices for punishment for missing a practice, etc), they can insist on practice (for school sports, band, etc) during summer and Christmas breaks, and the parents are afraid to speak up and be a parent to their kids because they are afraid the coaches will retaliate against their child and not play them, etc. That is so wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin. First off, if your child is in that kind of environment where that type of behaviour is allowed (and encouraged by the fact that the parents don't put a stop to it) you need to have your head examined!!

As a gymnastics coach, I would love for the parents to think I had god-like powers. But mostly I agree with Ilovetheboardwalk. Working with kids is great. Having to talk to their parents afterward is not fun. The worst part of competitive sports is the parents. My boss swears that to make it to the higher levels in a sport you must have calm parents. Her theory is that the hyper competitive parents drive their kids nuts and they end up quiting.

 

[Sandy V.]

It's a "hot button" topic because it involves our kids. And when you see someone else undermining and hurting OUR kids to advance THEIR kid, it hits you right at your core.

Mine are teenagers, but we went through this with DD in competitive soccer for 6 years. "M" was a talented athlete, but "D", her dad, pushed things beyond any sense of decency when it came to what he would do to put other kids down to coaches and manipulate playing time. I won't go into details, but he affected kids' confidence for YEARS. My DD finally had enough of it all and quit. It just wasn't "fun" anymore.

Fast forward to 3 years later. DD is a college freshman. She is a glowing and confident person, beautiful on the inside and out (I am a little biased ). She plays intramural soccer and other sports for fun now and is having the time of her life. "M" is playing college soccer, but she's got some real character flaws and some questionable morals. "D" still lives in my neighborhood and he and his wife don't get out much - not many friends when you spend all your time burning bridges. On the other hand, the group of parents whose kids "D" burned have all hung together and we still socialize together often. Gotta love karma.

ETA: DS had a baseball parent who ingratiated himself to the coach and TERRORIZED (there is no better word) 3 kids, including our son. He didn't consider them to be as good as the other kids on the team, so he intimidated and humiliated them in front of the rest of the team. Nothing worked to stop it, and believe me, we tried. If "B" (the dad)was walking down the middle of the street today, I'd have a hard time deciding whether I should brake or accelerate. (I would really never hurt anyone, but I still hate that man and always will.) DS's story also has a happy ending. He now plays lacrosse and is absolutely passionate about the sport. He is quite talented at it as well (again, my motherly bias comes out).

 

[carone0318]

This a topic that is very near and dear to me because my family is very sports oriented and my dd is involved in competitive sports and ds will be too once he is old enough.

I think they become a hot topic when someone states something that is insulting. It is quite possible that when an insult is said, the person saying it doesn’t even realize it. There are all different ways that families lead their lives and those not involved in competitive sports don’t understand the families that are and vise versa. We are a very sports oriented family with our lives focused around sports. We have missed birthday parties, I’ll admit and it is quite possible that a family that doesn’t have the same commitments that we do would not understand. I am sure that I don’t understand the way many people live their lives. I’ve read people say that they don’t believe in letting their kids play sports, but they might be involved in our activities, to each their own.

I also come to realize when competition and children become a hot topic it is normally on a forum set up with anonymous user names and people say things that they wouldn’t say if it were face to face. I think on a forum set up you have to have thick skin and take everything you hear with a grain of salt. I have had people several times misunderstand something that I have written. That’s ok, I have thick skin, I usually just let it go, but there are many who won’t.

Everyone chooses to live their lives how they choose. Competitive sports are not just a child’s commitment, but a family’s commitment. Parents are paying for a competitive sport with money and time, as are the child’s other siblings. Most competitive sports require travel, whether local or not. When your circle of friend’s includes other families with the same commitments, it usually isn’t an issue as everyone has the same beliefs. But, once someone outside of the circle says something negative, some parent’s get offended because of everything that they have invested and feel that they are being insulted.

My dd (10) is a competitive gymnast and also on a competitive soccer team. Every night she either has gym practice or soccer practice or games or competitions. My ds (5, will be 6 on Valentine’s Day) plays soccer year round, he did bowling in the Fall and is currently wrestling. Our lives are crazy busy and we love it. I encourage my children, hug them and tell them how proud I am regardless of if they win or lose. Usually if dd loses a soccer games, she’s more concerned about which friend is coming over, not the result of the game.

Ds is extremely competitive, it is his nature (the dinner table is a competition). He is very gifted in soccer, but this wrestling is new to him and he has more of a losing record than a winning record. When he comes off the mat, I tell him how proud I am of him regardless of the outcome. I tell him that I am proud that even though he lost that he came to the middle of the mat, shook the other kid’s hand, went and shook the other coach’s hand and didn’t cry. He held his head high and was proud of how he did. I see these little boys on the mat crying and screaming during the match because they are losing. I don’t want my ds to be that child. If he was, he wouldn’t compete, he could still practice, but not actually compete against other teams, his maturity level would be too young. Luckily we haven’t had this problem like I have seen in others.

Competitive sports can be real ugly (and I do agree that the parent’s make it ugly), but just because a family is heavily into competitive sports doesn’t mean that they are all like that. It can be hard not to get caught up in all the whoopla, but it makes your child a better athlete if the parents can just be parents and support their kids, win, lose or draw. I do admit I am at practice, not the whole time for dd (too long), and I go to all games and meets to support my children. I find them absolutely amazing to watch. I see their beauty as athletes and I personally can’t get enough of watching them. We all have our hopes and dreams for our competitive athletes (but I don’t sit there and talk about them 24/7, just keep them stored up in my head), but bottom line as long as my children are happy, I have obtained my goal.

 

[Goofyluver]

I think that some competition is healthy, personally. My son has been in sports since he was 5 (now 10). However, my emphasis has and always will be in the "fun factor". He knows (as do all of the kids) that there will be a winner and a loser. But, I have him in sports for two main reasons: 1. To get his lazy booty active and 2. To give him some socialization

I have seen far too many parents and coaches put the emphasis on the win or the loss. I think this is wrong. I think if you have the right coach who emphasizes the correct pillars of the game, namely exhibiting good sportsmanship and having a good time, then competitive sports can be a wonderful thing.