Combining (elementary) Classes - Update page 2

[tiggerlover]

If your child attended a small school and the school administration told you that due to enrollment size they had to combine classes, what would your feelings be? I am specifically looking for opinions regarding a combination of kindergarten, first and second grade all in one class with one teacher and one aide (total students between 10-15).

Thank you.

 

[believe]

This is common in my state, KY. I personally like the combination of grades. My DD will begin Kindergarten and I wish they had first graders with her. This would have been nice for her since she is a little ahead of the game educationally. With a class as small as you have mentioned it will be really good for the kids that are ready to excel past their grade level in certain subjects. I don't think that the kids who aren't ready to excel past will so any negative affects of this, it may actually be the push they need to take leaps. 10-15 with a teacher and aide is a wonderful ratio.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Wow -- that's a big range. There could be some K students who are still learning their alphabet, numbers, and pre-reading skills, all the way up to 2nd graders reading chapter books, and multiplication and division.

If it were my child, I would want to know how the teacher plans to address the diverse needs of each child. I would also want to know how many children there are at the same level as my child.

 

[becka]

My MIL used to work at a rural school and they did the combined classes there but not until 3rd grade. I did some of my classroom participation classes at that school when I was in college so I had a chance to observe how it worked. They had a class with 3rd/4th, one with 5th/6th and another with 7th/8th. The K, 1st and 2nd grade classes were left alone.

I think it worked pretty well for the older kids because they could combine science, social studies, music, etc. into one lesson for the kids and really only separated for math and reading. The kids were given "quiet" work to do when it was not there time for the lesson.

I would be very hesitant to group K-2nd because there is such a wide ranges of skills at that age. You almost have to end up teaching too high or too low to the kids and at such an early age I don't think that is good. IMHO, I think the kids would really end up being cheated in a situation like that.

 

[Karel]

My neighbor does a combined teaching thing with a friend of hers. They have third and fourth grade together and they proposed the program and 'sold' it to the school board ( not our local school) I know she loves it and feels that it gives the kids a bigger advantage for learning, though don't ask me to break that done into reasons.

My son is learning disabled and his program has two grades in one classroom - 1 and 2, 3 and 4, one teacher for two years. I loved that - it gave the teacher a good chance to really know our family and our son. This is the first year he had a more traditional setting, with a home room teacher and then a special ed teacher and I really disliked the whole situation. It was too much for him to handle organizational wise. This fall he'll have a whole new set of teachers.

I would worry about K with 1 and 2, just because there's a bigger jump educationally but it seems like the class size will be small enough. It depends on the teacher and how she organizes. I think it would be great for the K kids who are more advanced academically because they could do reading and math with the 1st graders and so on...OTH, it might make it harder for those struggling in K and also those 2nd graders who are more advanced. I think with a small class size there would be definatly advantages overall and wouldn't reject the notion without taking a good look at the program and talking to the teacher.

 

[JAP]

My DD attends a multi-age/classroom school. She just finished kindergarten and will be in the first grade this fall. The classrooms are split k/1 2/3 4/5.

I think it was great for the kindergartners. I am hopeful for the coming year and think it would be good for DD to be a mentor this year. She learned a great deal but will need work on reading and class participation.

My experiences so far have been good.

 

[tiggerlover]

Thanks for the replies thus far, it has been interesting to read from a neutral perspective. The reason I ask is because it is rumored that is what will happen at DS's school this year. DS is going into the second grade and is advanced for his age (top two of his first grade class), we are concerned because there will be a vast age difference, some 4 year old kindergarteners and some 8 year old second graders, just seems like too large a gap to teach to effectively. We are familiar with the combined class, DS was in a combined k/1 class last year and we weren't so happy with that then and we are just dreading the proposed k/1/2 combo.

 

[disykat]

I don't think I would worry too much because of the small class size with a teacher and an aide. I would guess that they will be able to do quite a bit of individualized and small group instruction. If the aide is good that will make a huge difference.

When I was teaching 10 years ago my class size was 27 for first grade with no aide. Now it seems to run around 23. Split classes here (usually just two grades) still run around 23 with no aide.

 

[jjskribs]

The success or failure of split classrooms is dependent on the skill of the teacher in running a split. My oldest son was in a 2/3 split and basically he worked for half a day and drew pictures for the other half while the teacher was working with the 3rd graders Maybe that's why he's an artist now at age 22!

 

[Mouseteacher]

The success of a split grade will rest solely on the expertise of the teacher. An excellent teacher can do it and do it well. However, a K to 2 combo seems daunting since children at that age range have such a large range of ability and maturity. I could see a K/1 or a 1/2 combo but a 3 year span seems just too risky. I would speak with the administration of the school or the teacher of that class.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

If there are only 10-15 students in all 3 grades what choice do they have? I can't imagine any school district can support a 5-1 teacher ratio

 

[Mouseteacher]

I suppose you're right, Alex. They really have no choice. A really good teacher will do a good job and hopefully he/she will have a competent assistant to help in delivering the curriculum.

 

[NHAnn]

ugghhhhhh................
I would be very concerned in your situation (an advanced second grader in a newly combined K/1/2 group). I had the same concerns about my DD years ago when she was put as a 3rd grader into a 2/3 combo. Knowing my DDs capabilities AND personality, I was concerned she would "coast" and not be challenged....and not be prepared as well for 4th grade, having spent time being exposed to work she had already done as a second grader. I was also concerned that the teacher did not know where the different 3rd graders were in terms of proficiency as they entered the class out of second grade. The teacher seemed miffed and said "the purpose of third grade is not to prepare for 4th, but to take each child to his/her full potential". I was assurred by the principal and the teacher this whole thing was was wonderful and everything would be fine, but my fears were confirmed when she entered 4th grade and was not nearly as prepared in math for the 4th grade work, as the kids who had come from a traditional grade 3 class. We spent a LOT of time in 4th grade at home with flash cards (and with an absolute peach of a 4th grade teacher) to get DD "caught up". Anyway, this is getting too long, but it's the one time I regret stifling my instincts that were shouting "NO" and going along with what the administration wanted so as not to be labelled a trouble-making interfering parent with repercussions on DD. So instead we have the lingering effects of an "I'm no good at math......" attitude in an A student entering her senior year of high school.
JMHO, but I think a second grader going into a class with that big a spread of age/abilities is bad news....our society has moved too far from the one-room schoolhouse concept...I think the older and/or more advanced students in these classes suffer because the teachers generally don't have the training or resources or time with all the other demands these days, to do them justice. As Mouseteacher said, an excellent teacher CAN do it, but I would be very very leery with a spread like that. In response to Alex's comment, I do understand the financial issues for the school...but I think they could/should explore things like putting the second graders into a 2/3 class. And/or a pre-K program for which a fee could be charged, to combine with the K class to offset the cost of a teacher, and the other teacher do a 1/2 combo.
JMHO

 

[CJMickeyMouse]

Originally posted by NHAnn

JMHO, but I think a second grader going into a class with that big a spread of age/abilities is bad news....our society has moved too far from the one-room schoolhouse concept...I think the older and/or more advanced students in these classes suffer because the teachers generally don't have the training or resources or time with all the other demands these days, to do them justice. As Mouseteacher said, an excellent teacher CAN do it, but I would be very very leery with a spread like that.

This pretty much sums up my feelings...

Our school tried the multi-age classrooms and failed miserably, mainly because their focus was social rather than academic.

On thing you might look into is moving your child into a third grade classroom. You don't necessarily have to skip a grade... he can remain a second grader but take third grade classes. If it worked out.... just climb the ladder this way... then when he gets into middle school/high school he will be in the same class he started in, he will just be advanced.

We have done something similar to this... if you have any questions feel free to post or pm me.

 

[BrerMom]

That's a huge age-span and ability-span for one classroom. It sounds like the school feels that is the only option. I was in a 4/5 split, large class, no aide, and it was OK. She would teach one grade and then they would do the seatwork on that subject while she taught the other class. She switched grades all day and never got a break. With three levels, wouldn't one group be sitting waiting all the time?

The bump-him-up-to-the-next-grade idea is an interesting one.

Are you in a position to volunteer in his class? If you could help the Ks learn a concept after it was introduced or listen to 1st graders learning to read, that would free up time for kids like your son who are ahead.

 

[Mouseteacher]

Just another thought - K students need more interactive, kinesthetic, hand-on learning and their ability to sit and do "seat work" is limited (as it should be) whereas 2nd graders are capable of some independent learning once instructed. However, young children need attention and should not be left on their own for long periods of time. Teaching a primary grade and working with young students is a rewarding experience.

There are so many disparities among 5/6/7/8 year-olds - it will probably be a challenge for even a great teacher despite the small class size. The teacher still needs to prepare and implement 3 different age-appropriate curriculums. How you teach reading to K, 1st and 2nd graders is different. Language arts curriculum at the primary grades level is a crucial part of their learning. even within a grade level, there is a span of reading levels. In secomd grade, you can have students still at the emerging reading level to students who are quite proficient.

 

[tiggerlover]

Well, school starts tomorrow and we are very excited because we got the combination class we wanted. DS will be in a 2/3 combo class with a new teacher and 15 in his class (5 2nd graders and 10 third graders). I took my concerns of a K/1/2 combo to the new school principal and she was very receptive of my concerns, she said I made some valid points and she would take them under consideration and it looks like she did. Thanks to all of you who posted replies.

 

[Desiree]

We got a note last week saying that Devyn would be put in a combo 4/5th grade class. I was really concerned about this because this is a Leap Year for Devyn and she has ADHD. But so far so good with it though. We went and talked with the principal and she informed us that the decision to move Devyn was not taken lightly and they took the kids that are a bit more advanced into this new class. So hopefully it will keep Devyn's attention in the room and she won't be bored at least.