Christopher Robin replaced??

There was a thread a few days ago, where a lot of people got very upset about it.

I think it is a great idea. I gave the example in another thread of West Side Story, Jerome Robbins' retelling of William Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. There are many other examples where retellings that have substantial differences to the original, but effectively capture the original.
 
I love this idea. I don't think the company should stop there.

What about modernizing some of the other Disney character friendships? For instance, get rid of Pluto, and get Mickey a hamster as a pet instead. Something like "Hammy the Happy Hamster?" There are enough dogs in the Disney pantheon, where are the hamsters?

Think about the success Disney has had with buying the rights to Pooh. Maybe they should buy the Wallace & Grommit series, too. But again, too many dogs. Wait a minute. Get rid of Gromit, and add a Nutria, instead. I can definitively state that the Nutria population in the world of animation is seriously underrepresented. "Wallace & Newtie" is another great idea. Yes there is a substantial difference, but it still captures the same spirit.
 
Actually, I love for them to consider doing this for Song of the South.
 

I can't think of a better follow-up project to The Muppets' Wizard of Oz.

I'm sure it will be just as successful.
 
Good start, Larry. You're on the right track, but you're still not putting forth the extra effort.

Let me help out...



Tell me, why a mouse?
 
Kidding and sarcasm aside, does anyone really think this is a good idea?

I can understand taking an old story, and freshening it up with new details. Heck, I'm one of those suckers that bought into Ron'n'John's idea to retell Treasure Island in space (until I watched the movie that is).

But Pooh and Christopher Robin?

There's just no need to change the story. Spend the money, sweat, and guts to create something new. Don't demonstrate to the world that you've run out of good ideas.

This reeks of "Ariel made money so let's do a sequel maybe she has a daughter you're brilliant no you are how much of a bonus will we get" type of ideas.
 
Winnie and Christopher have been friends for so long I think its a bad idea to split them up
 
Disney....The Brain Drain Continues.

Let's face it everyone....the establishment is just running out of ideas.

Pooh and the dieziens of the Hundred Acre Wood, have had more recycling over the last 25 years than I or anyone else could care to remember.

In fact the only reason they keep this franchise going is the fact that it makes more green for them in the long run. Over the last few years they've had more theatrical releases, more air time, and its clear that the establishment is just spining its wheels, milking old ideas for all their worth.

In fact, if any of you have ever read the actual books based on these characters. Pooh and the rest of them, are just toys, scattered about Christopher Robin's room.

They only come to life within Christopher Robin's imagination. Only replacing him with another human, defeats the entire purpose of the story. In fact Disney has broken the author's intent of the story, so many times its mind boggling!
The whole point of toy story 2 was that it was bitter sweet, and we can't all keep playing with them in Andy's room as if it is the timeless hundred acre wood going on forever. It defeats the point and makes the drama of the earlier movie meaningless.

At the end of "Many Adventures" where Christopher Robin discusses going to school, he has this problem he is explaining to Pooh and the gang.

Christopher Robin was growing up, and wasn't going to "visit" with his pre-school imaginary friends as much, as he would now be getting real friends at school, and, it was implied would eventually stop visiting them altogether.

That's what the author's intent was.

That childhood is the shortest period of our lives. The stuff we used to play with, the dreams we used to dream, all eventually fall by the wayside. Pooh included.

We only live that way for a short time.

And instead of ending it on that note, they've continued to drag pooh back out Christopher's Imagination. I just can't see it working out with another human being, no matter how much they try to re-create what is simply
un-re-creatable!

On that, how much time have they spent trying to re-invigorate Mickey Mouse for the 21st century?
 
Yup, I think this is a GOOD idea. I know many people fear change, but as I mentioned earlier, retellings are an excellent way to breathe new life into a story. The fact is that the gender of Christopher Robin has no bearing on the story, and so can be changed without any concern about negative impact on the story.
 
True North said:
Seems to be a lot of stories about the new Winnie the Pooh tv show. I guess they are replacing Christopher Robin with a tom-boy girl, and will have more "active" adventures.

Seems like they could have a lot of people mad with this one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4512770.stm

I think the REAL reason Disney is replacing Christopher Robin is I heard Disney was being challenged by the family of the author as to who really had the rights
to the pooh stories. Legal battles are very expensive and perhaps this was an out of court settlement so Disney is playing it up as an update.
 
bicker said:
Yup, I think this is a GOOD idea. I know many people fear change, but as I mentioned earlier, retellings are an excellent way to breathe new life into a story. The fact is that the gender of Christopher Robin has no bearing on the story, and so can be changed without any concern about negative impact on the story.

Change for the better is a sign of creative leadership. Change for the sake of change is evidence of creative bankruptcy.

I don't know enough about the project to say what this change will be, but the negative impact you are missing is not with the story, its with the negative use of resources better utilized in creating new stories with new characters with new genders in them. But thinking up new ideas is hard.

I can understand why the company would make this mistake. It is a common error to assume change for change's sake is for the better or has no negative impact by the business suits rather than the creative class, and according to sources like Stewart, Disney appears to be management heavy.

The business suits at Disney will tinker with the marketing of Pooh over and over thinking they are helping to create new fervor for the character and increasing the market share and sales blah blah blah...while over at Pixar (which began as you know partly as a Disney funded project with ex-Disney employees) they are working on the next new set of characters that will have a whole new milieu to work in. The next generation of Pooh characters, in other words.

We got raised eyebrows even in-house at first...
The in-house artists questioned this move? Shocker! Two different ways of doing things. One creates. One shuffles. Need I say more?
 
Change for the better is a sign of creative leadership. Change for the sake of change is evidence of creative bankruptcy.
True, but that's not the case here. We haven't seen the end-product, so IMHO all we can say is that it is a good idea, for the reasons I mentioned earlier and based on the examples I've given earlier, and we'll just have to wait for the implementation to determine whether the idea was executed with merit or not. Even at that time, it wouldn't be the idea that would be good or bad, but simply the execution.

That is unless someone is willing to take up the banner and rail against West Side Story, The Wiz, The Mists of Avalon, Pretty Woman, etc.

I don't know enough about the project to say what this change will be, but the negative impact you are missing is not with the story, its with the negative use of resources better utilized in creating new stories with new characters with new genders in them.
Sorry, but I see this as either evidence of a pre-conceived bias against, or simple naiveté. Pursuing use of an existing asset is not negative-by-nature. Good business requires both new development and development based on existing assets. To treat any existing asset as a sacred cow, that cannot be developed further in the interest of the enterprise, is simply bad management. The specific use itself can, of course, be scrutinized, but again, I haven't seen anyone pick up the banner and make the point as to why Pooh's stories, themselves, demand that the child in the stories must be a boy -- what it is about a change in gender that totally destroys the original magic of the stories.

But thinking up new ideas is hard.
There is no question that Disney is heavily relying on Pixar for this, these days. It makes sense:

In the old days, Disney kept his creative talent under his oppressive thumb. The studio system was in full-force, and it was even more effective within the realm of animation as it was in the realm of live-action.

Now, the situation is 180° different: Jonas Ridderstrale and Kjell Nordström write, "Talent makes capital dance." Big business retains its advantage at implementation and distribution, and probably always will. However, the best environment for creative talent is in charge of their own destiny, in small think tanks. This is the case in every industry, and the exceptions are notable rather than common.

In the industry I work in now, the visionaries are either executives of large companies, executives of small companies, or private entrepreneurs. They don't take jobs where they're some underling of an underling of an underling, in some massive hierarchy. They want autonomy -- control not only over their own destiny but also over what creative interests they pursue. These folks deliver such significant returns on their creative talent that they can insist on that autonomy, on that control. Furthermore, it appears very clear that many of the most creative people are more creative with that autonomy than without it.

I can understand why the company would make this mistake.
All I can say is that assuming it is a mistake makes it more difficult to objectively evaluate the decision.

while over at Pixar (which began as you know partly as a Disney funded project with ex-Disney employees)
For the reasons I mentioned above.
 
No, no, no. You missed it.

Replacing Christopher Robin with Kristy Robin is not the same as the examples cited above.

Until that concept is understood, it will be hard to discuss the mistakes business types can make in making change for changes sake.

I'll try again.

As an example, "The Wiz" involved an update to the music and a change in the ethnicity of the main characters. But Dorothy's character does not depend on the color of her skin. She's Dorothy either way. But changing Dorothy to Dexter in the same story is absurd and unnecessary and distorts the artist's original vision.

It can be done, of course, but is that the best use of an artist's efforts? To retell The Wizard of Oz with a boy instead of a girl?

I am all for taking a fresh look at old ideas to see if they can be better utilized. But the public, in general, responds to quality, not change for change's sake. It is funny how, years and years after they were created, the stories from Tolkien and Lewis light up the movie screen and rake in millions from a new generation of fans....without changing Gandalf to Gandalfinetti, the White Witch...or Frodo to Freida, Samwise's wife and faithful ringbearer.

Even at that time, it wouldn't be the idea that would be good or bad, but simply the execution....<snip>Sorry, but I see this as either evidence of a pre-conceived bias against, or simple naiveté.
I have a sincere question. Can you give me an example of what would be a bad idea, other than the obvious examples of using the characters in an immoral manner? Is there anything (other than that) sacred about the Pooh characters that should make them resistant to wholesale change? And do you understand the consequences of taking your argument to the logical extreme?

(P.S.: And isn't "oppressive" a poor choice of word to use to describe the leadership of an animation unit that had no rival for thirty-five years?)
 
But Dorothy's character does not depend on the color of her skin.
Just like the Christopher Robin character does not depend on gender. Carrying the example further, in West Side Story, the Juliet character went from simply a member of another powerful family, to a character who was of a minority ethnicity. The conflict, itself, was enriched by adding in the racial aspect of it. In Pretty Woman, the Ella character became a prostitute instead of an abused child. In Ella Enchanted, the oppression isn't being forced to be a servant just to her own family, but to everyone, imposed by magic.

It can be done, of course, but is that the best use of an artist's efforts? To retell The Wizard of Oz with a boy instead of a girl?
Very likely.

But the public, in general, responds to quality, not change for change's sake.
Since you haven't seen the end-product, you don't know it won't be a quality story or production. If the end-product is poor, then that's the fault of the implementation, not the idea.

It is funny how, years and years after they were created, the stories from Tolkien and Lewis light up the movie screen and rake in millions from a new generation of fans....without changing Gandalf to Gandalfinetti, the White Witch...or Frodo to Freida, Samwise's wife and faithful ringbearer.
Yet, the Tolkien books have been reimagined in print very effectively and very successfully. The fact, though, that there are examples of the original being remade doesn't mean that derivations aren't excellent as well. The Romeo and Juliet story has reached the big screen again since the West Side Story retelling, and by all accounts the retelling was better than the more traditional telling.

I have a sincere question. Can you give me an example of what would be a bad idea, other than the obvious examples of using the characters in an immoral manner?
By definition, no. There is no advantage to making things into sacred cows. There is no advantage to closing doors to possibilities.

There are no bad ideas, only good ideas that fail because of a lack of or in resources applied to the idea. There are no bad ideas, only wrong ideas for that moment. There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. There are no bad ideas, only lesser priorities. There are no bad ideas, only ideas in the wrong place or at the wrong time. There are no bad ideas, only lost opportunities.

And do you understand the consequences of taking your argument to the logical extreme?
There is no "logical" extreme except that which you mentioned earlier, i.e., introducing immoral themes. However, as you likely realized, raising that prospect would be reductio ad absurdum.

(P.S.: And isn't "oppressive" a poor choice of word to use to describe the leadership of an animation unit that had no rival for thirty-five years?)
Why do you think the two would be mutually-exclusive? One refers to how the manager satisfied the objectives, the other refers to how the manager treated his employees. Read the histories. Walt Disney wasn't someone I would want to have worked for.
 
Just like the Christopher Robin character does not depend on gender.
And that goes to the heart of the matter. This change in the stories isn't an attempt to make the stories better, different, more interesting or to expand their meaning.

It's just a blatant exercise in crass marketing.

You can see the PowerPoint presentation between the lines of Disney's announcements – "we want to sell more stuff to girls, we must get more girls in our top tier franchises". While this is going to be a wonderful commercial for a whole new line of "Kristy 'n Winnie 2geth'r 4ev'r" Toys, the movies themselves are going to be awful.

Disney's taken a line of stories that have sparked the imagination of two generations and turned them into another line of "Barbie and her Magical Dream House" DVDs.


P.S.
In the old days, Disney kept his creative talent under his oppressive thumb.
You really don't understand how things ran. It's rather amusing, albeit a bit sad, and explains a lot.
 
Or perhaps I do understand how things ran, and you simply disagree. :idea:
 


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