Children and Gratefulness - kind of long

[landsm99]

Help! Have we spoiled our dd too much??? I am a long time member here on the boards - don't post very often but after this AM I need to know that we have not totally failed as parents.
Just booked a trip to WDW in May. This will be dd (5) 4th time in WDW. For her 21/2 year old brother it will be his 3rd. We tried to go to California and had involved her in planning but $$ could not work it out. DD was very sad-she was excited to go to CA, long plane ride etc. We were not planning on going to WDW this year but do to too many scheduling problems to lay out here we said "what the $$$$" the kids love it, we love it, lets just go.
So we made all the plans and kept it a secret just in case something fell though. After we were all set we told her that we made our plans-she wanted to guess where we were going so we began playing a game with clues. Her guesses were China (an obsession of hers), London, Paris. Her last clue was somewhere she could visit pretend China, London and Paris all in 1 day. She got very excited "Are we going to WDW!?!?!?!?". We answered YES and got ready for the WOOHOOOO!!!!! We got a "I really wanted to go to China" and she pouted away. Could have killed her!
She is actually an incredibly good girl, great bid sister etc. It is just when we do something-there is always a "but i did not get XXXX". We took the kids to NYC right around Christmas-rode the train, saw the big tree, walked to the World of Disney (did not buy anything) got some lunch. We get home and she is sad because she "did not get a treat". We do not often buy toys or treats when we are out-so it is not expected all the time.
So tomorrow we are going to Disney on Ice -a surprise-after this morning we almost said who cares about the $$ we are not going. But I want to give the kids these good times-I just want them to realize that it is special-not an entitlement.
Any thoughts/ideas?? Thanks!

 

[DVCLiz]

Honestly, if she's only five I don't think you have anything to worry about. You're asking her to do some pretty higher-level thinking - "I got this experience, and its relative worth should be this amount, and that should be sufficient for my age, especially compared to many of my peer group who don't have this ability." And all she can really handle is, "We went to The Disney Store but I didn't get to buy Bambi."

I say lighten up - you sound like a good mom with a great kid. Her ability to appreciaite will come with age and time, and she will learn it by your example (ie "We saved our money for this treat instead of buying you xxx every day," or "Aren't we lucky to get to ride the train and see this pretty tree when lots of kids will never get to see NYC in their whole lives?") It's natural for kids to want everything, especially when they haven't learned to make mature assessments and judgements about what they do have.

Have a great time at Disney on Ice - and be prepared for your daughter to be disappointed because you didn't buy her the special cup with a snowcone!!! If that's your family policy, explain it clearly and calmly before you go. Me, I'm a sucker for all that stuff, so I could never go and not buy something!!!!

 

[PollyannaMom]

I agree - she's little, and will comment on the little details even though later on she will look back on it as a happy experience!

Just encourage the habit of gratefullness, and she'll grow into it. - For instance, each night at dinner (or bath time, or whatever works for your routine) have everyone go around and say one thing they are grateful for that day. It can be really interesting to hear what kids pick, and helps them practice being appreciative.

 

[landsm99]

I know it sounds like an over reaction-and it is-but it seems she is like this every time we try to do something special for her. Like I said in everyday actions she is a great little girl-for special things-it is never enough.

Just a funny side note for Thanksgiving when asked to make a sign with what she is thankful for-her sign read "I am thankful for the toys on my bed"-not Mom, Dad, little brother etc. Just kind of cute.

 

[va32h]

But I want to give the kids these good times-I just want them to realize that it is special-not an entitlement.
Any thoughts/ideas?? Thanks!

For the good times to be special, they have to be out-of-the-ordinary. If a trip to WDW is an annual event, then realistically, no it isn't going to be very special. It may become a tradition, and certainly something that a child can be happy about and grateful for...but it won't be special in the sense that it is something you do on a regular basis. If going out to a big event like Disney on Ice is something you all do every time such a show comes into town, that will probably stop being special too. Heck, Christmas would lose its appeal if we did it every month!

I had a similar situation with my oldest, now 10. When she was our only child, we could afford, and did, take her everywhere. To Disneyland every year. To Sea World, LegoLand, to Disney on Ice (several versions), to Sesame Street Live, to the circus, to the fair, to McDonald's, to the movies, etc.

She did not become spoiled really, but she became...harder to impress. When you go on a Disney Cruise for your 6th birthday, it's tough to come up with a 7th birthday that measures up, you know?

When I had her brother and sister, it became too expensive and just plain too difficult to take all three of them to those same kinds of activities. We have managed Disney twice since that birthday cruise. WDW once, and Disneyland for the 50th birthday party. And the last trip we took, last May, it really was special, because my younger ones hadn't ever been there before, and my oldest and I hadn't been there in nearly five years.

 

[Monkeyfeet]

I
Just a funny side note for Thanksgiving when asked to make a sign with what she is thankful for-her sign read "I am thankful for the toys on my bed"-not Mom, Dad, little brother etc. Just kind of cute.

In her mind at this age having all of you is just a given. Now the toys are really something special.

She may not realize she should be thankful for all of you until she is older.

She sounds like a typical little girl that feels safe and secure enough with her parents to vocalize what is on her mind.

 

[jojoandhb]

It is definitely important to not let kids have everything they want. As long as you are saying no from time to time and not buying them every little thing they want, you'll be fine. The spoiled kids are the ones who get everything the little hearts desire. I've even seen 4 and 5 year olds with designer handbags and cell phones. There was an episode of Oprah or something where a mother was actually prostituting herself to buy her daughter expensive clothes and wouldn't tell her no on anything she wanted. That's an extreme, but more and more kids are growing up in homes where both parents work. The parents feel guilty, so they buy their kids stuff to make them feel better. This is a huge problem later in life. The kids grow up with a sense of entitlement and do not have the ability to empathize. They also become materialistic and selfish. It's important to give them boundries, make them earn certain privledges, and say no from time to time. As long as you are doing that, I wouldn't worry.

 

[ilovejack02]

For the good times to be special, they have to be out-of-the-ordinary. If a trip to WDW is an annual event, then realistically, no it isn't going to be very special. It may become a tradition, and certainly something that a child can be happy about and grateful for...but it won't be special in the sense that it is something you do on a regular basis. If going out to a big event like Disney on Ice is something you all do every time such a show comes into town, that will probably stop being special too. Heck, Christmas would lose its appeal if we did it every month!

 

[dodukes]

Yes my friend's 5yo is going thru this same phase. We are very close and in fact I will be taking him to disney in 3 weeks for the weekend (his almost first time, he went when he was little but doenst remember)....and the same thing, its all about want, what i didnt get and what not, i think she is ready to kill him...LOL...i wouldnt worry about it too much just yet, and you are right at 5 they dont comprehend that spending time with family and firends doing something fun is a treat, its all about hte "souvenier" you bring back.

 

[MiniGirl]

She sounds like a typical 5 yo to me. I know it is frustrating though.

 

[DVCLiz]

, but more and more kids are growing up in homes where both parents work. The parents feel guilty, so they buy their kids stuff to make them feel better. This is a huge problem later in life. The kids grow up with a sense of entitlement and do not have the ability to empathize. They also become materialistic and selfish.

Um, sorry to change gears for a minute, but this is a HUGE assumption that I've never found to be true in my real life circle of friends and acquaintenances. Lots of the couples I know who both work are easily able to set limits for their children, and they don't feel guilty at all. They feel proud of their ability to provide for their family's needs, in the way that best works for their family.

I don't like to see swipes like this taken at working families, any more than I'd like it if you had said, "Families who have a stay at home mom feel guilty because they can't give their kids new toys or go to Disney World every year." I just don't think who earns the family's living has much to do with how a 5 year old feels about going to China.

 

[va32h]

Um, sorry to change gears for a minute, but this is a HUGE assumption that I've never found to be true in my real life circle of friends and acquaintenances. Lots of the couples I know who both work are easily able to set limits for their children, and they don't feel guilty at all. They feel proud of their ability to provide for their family's needs, in the way that best works for their family.

I am willing to admit that when I worked outside the home, I did feel enormously guilty, and I did try to compensate with toys, trips, meals out, etc. Especially when their dad was overseas. I gave and did anything to make them happy...and they pretty quickly learned to take advantage of that.

I'm not saying my experience is anyone else's experience, but I do understand where that stereotype is coming from, because it used to be me.

 

[Lesley]

It sounds a lot like my 6yo. She just seems wired to see the glass as half empty instead of half full. But I fully expect she'll grow out of it- and its becoming much better as she's able to express herself more fully.

She LOVES going to WDW, but sometimes when we're there you wouldn't know it because she's stuck in the moment of feeling tired, or overstimulated, or in the throes of whatever whim has struck her at the moment and isn't happening *right now*. She certainly doesn't get everything she wants from us the moment she wants it, as that would be darned near impossible, AND we are not a two income, two full time job family (and we're not independently wealthy either, at least not yet ).

She's just a child who doesn't shift gears easily and her mind will get "stuck" on an idea. Surprises don't work very well for her at this time and I think she does a lot better when she knows what to expect and doesn't have to make too many choices. Disney can really throw her for a loop.

Be glad you have a 5yo who is interested in China, Paris and London (some 5yo's aren't even aware these places exist!) and is able to think about why she's feeling disappointed and express it in words. It doesn't mean you have to solve her problem, but just support her in learning how to see the good things instead of focusing on the negative.

Oh, and hey, if a 5yo *isn't* taking good times with their family for granted they've probably had a pretty tough life.

 

[LaraK]

I don't think anything is wrong with your daughter, but I also think you can use this as an opportunity for a life lesson. My husband and I had kids later in life after we both had established careers....as such, we can afford to take our kids to Disney, buy them whatever they want (although we don't) and generally spoil them. However, we also make sure that my kids know that the only thing we are obligated to give them is a safe place to live, food in thier belly and love. Sometimes I feel like DD is feeling entitiled....that means it's time to pack up some of her older toys and make a trip to Goodwill. It's important to me that she understands that what she has is a privilage and not all children get what she does. I think that by giving back, she is learning something.

On a side note, I work. My husband works. i do not feel guilty that I work. If I hit the lottery would I stay home? Maybe and maybe not. Part of what makes me who I am (a strong, successful, independant woman) is my career. My daughter sees me make a difference every day. I think that is setting a great example for her and I have no guilt for that. Working is a part of who I am. (Sorry, don't want to start the "Mommy wars" but it ticks me off when people imply that I am less of a mother)

 

[Melissa]

My dd is an only and has been to WDW 9 times with another scheduled in May, I always worry about this too, I find now she is older she is much better about greatfulness but it comes after lots of talks. I do think to an extent she doesn't get how lucky she is b/c it is all she knows, to her it is just life to go on a couple really nice vacations a year and to be able to do all of the activities she wants to do, she still doesn't get it that all of her classmates
don't have all the advantages she has.

 

[Deesknee]

reminds me of a couple of years ago. We told our teens we were able to go to disney again. (we were trying for every other year, but it happened we were able to go 2 years in a row) we thought they would be excited. DS asked if we could go to NYC instead. Yah we could, we could drive there. But, no we are going to WDW. Oh poor baby.

Take heart once they get there, even my bullheaded teenagers thanked us. Ds also has dreams of going to NYC. We keep telling him NYC is amazing, but it isn't Disney!

 

[landsm99]

Thanks for all your positive thoughts. I know we have a good little girl-endulged yes...out right spoiled no.
I really just want her growing up knowing how lucky she is and that many of the things she has and can do most people can't.
We do make her select toys that are no longer being used and for donation-something she does like doing.

BTW we went to Disney on Ice today and after getting a big talking to yesterday was very polite and thankful. It made us happy that there might have been some understanding.

Thanks again!

 

[pezpam]

Don't be too hard on her, or yourself. At age 5, she's still figuring all of this out. It's a good thing at 5 to be so sure of your family's love that it's a given and not something you consider might not exist and should therefore be grateful for.

Kids (and it may go on for quite a while) are also prone to the "But I didn't get...." and that seems to serve a function (at least it did in our house) - to test the boundaries to learn what they can and cannot expect out of life and you. That's her job right now - to figure out how the world works, what she can expect, and what's expected of her. You just don't give in to it or she won't learn the 'right' lesson.....

It sounds like you've got a good kid. She'll grow into the gratefulness you're looking for as she grows up. One thing that works for me is to turn it around with a *pleasant* question..... "We aren't going to China. We can go to WDW or we can stay home. Which would you like to do?" or "I can't afford to buy you every souvenir we see. You have your money to spend if you want something, but that's it. Now, we can agree that we can't have everything, go out and have a great day, or we can ruin the day whining about bits of plastic. What sounds like more fun?" - it works with most situations and I really feel like it's something that sunk in eventually and really stuck because DD actually had to consider the choice and prioritize things. Just make sure to be pleasant or even silly with the question and word it so it's a choice, but a choice with a pretty obvious answer.

 

[graygables]

Is she not getting everything she wants? Is she saying "thank you" for everything she does get? Does she have even a slight understanding that other children do NOT get to go to WDW every year, and most certainly NEVER to the real China? I'm guessing she's still in the concrete/short term thinking stage and is just being a regular little girl. It will bless your heart in a few years when she comes up with an out-of-the-blue, "thanks, Mom, for taking me to WDW when I was 'little'" (as if 'little' was YEARS ago! ). Or, walking down Main Street, she takes your hand and give it a squeeze and whispers, "I'm lucky". That'll have you bawling for sure!

 

[WildGrits]

For the good times to be special, they have to be out-of-the-ordinary. If a trip to WDW is an annual event, then realistically, no it isn't going to be very special. It may become a tradition, and certainly something that a child can be happy about and grateful for...but it won't be special in the sense that it is something you do on a regular basis. If going out to a big event like Disney on Ice is something you all do every time such a show comes into town, that will probably stop being special too. Heck, Christmas would lose its appeal if we did it every month!

I tottally agree with this statement.

This is my assumption on what happened. It was a hard desion to make whether to go to WDW or not. Yep definately not a cheap endeavor. So after putting a time of time and effort into the planning and making this vacation possible, you are now full blown into the Disney Hype in your mind. I have so been there. And keeping it a secret has just really raised they hype in your head.

So now you are ready to let your daughter know. This is so exciting. She knows it must be big news by the behavior of mom and dad. So she thinks to herself, where do I want to go more than any place else. She does her guessing. All her guesses are wrong.
Instead you are going to WDW. A place that she has been 4 times in her very short 5 year life.

My mom always told me, things don't spoil children, attitudes spoil children.

So you might want to look at you reason for being upset with your daughter. Because she didn't give to the response you expected? Or because she truly does take for granted the extras in life you are very lucky to afford her?

My children are never as excited about WDW as I am. But that's also because I start celebrating about a year before we go. When the days start getting into the double digits, they start to join me.