Change in the POS or enforcment of existing rules?

[dumbo71]

Now that it has been confirmed by a ..... um.... well ..... a member of the board are we looking at an official change in the POS or will the occupancy limits be enforced as written.

More info? No problem.

AKV is confirmed to have some sort of sleeper chair/recliner making the occupancy of a one bedroom 5 and a 2 bedroom 9. The POS for all other resorts has stated 4 and 8 for those rooms. MS has apparently been lenient about that and has allowed 5 and 9.

Will there be an official change in the POS regarding occupancy? Or will they now start to enforce the set limits at the older resorts?

Will they simply have MS keep ignoring the rules and allowing the extra guest?

Any and all thoughts are welcome on this. Could it also mean the sleep recliner will make it's way into the older resorts?

Please fire away with all thoughts.

 

[Chuck S]

I don't think there will be any change to the POS. Surely Disney won't go to the expense of changing the POS and refiling it in all the states to be able to sell the older resorts there, when the focus will be on SSR or AKV.

Nor do I think they will suddenly begin enforcing the 4+child or 8+child rule, after all, it has "worked" for years, why change now?

 

[DebbieB]

I don't think they will change it at existing resorts because they don't provide bedding or linens for 5 people in a studio or 1 bedroom. If they put 5 in the contract, that would imply that bedding and linens are provided for 5. If the contract said 5, and I checked in with 5, I would expect the room would fully accomodate 5.

 

[CapeCodFam]

Maybe the sleeper chair is for children who don't want to share a bed??? I.e. Family of 4 and the children get their own beds?

 

[Dean]

I don't think they could increase the official capacity of the existing units. It remains to be seen how official the higher occupancy will be for AKL. To me the true test will be the exchange occupancy which I suspect will be the same as the existing resorts. Regardless I don't think you'll see much change. Also I don't think you'll see increased enforcement as a sales technique though I would like to.

 

[dumbo71]

I don't think they will change it at existing resorts because they don't provide bedding or linens for 5 people in a studio or 1 bedroom. If they put 5 in the contract, that would imply that bedding and linens are provided for 5. If the contract said 5, and I checked in with 5, I would expect the room would fully accomodate 5.

This makes perfect sense. Your post and Chuck's post have really convinced me they will likely do nothing and it will be business as usual. I find that unfortunate but probably the reality.

 

[RobDoc]

Why do you think a change in the POS would be required?

I'm not aware of any occupancy statements in the POS. If anyone is faniliar with that, please cite the location within the document.

The only place I'm aware of where occupancy limits was mentioned in any of my DVC documents is the Product Understanding Checklist, which was in some of the final paperwork. As with most operational aspects of the program and resorts themselves, DVC does have the right to make changes whenever they feel the need - and that has occured a number of times over the years (changing perks, discounts, exchange company, banking/borrowing/transfer policies, adding slides, changing restaurant policies, etc.).

The occupancy limits were established long ago and have been "molded" over time, but no mention of any "legal" limitation is in the POS that I have found. Limits have been published in travel brochures and even in some marketing materials, but seem to be absent in the POS itself.

 

[Dean]

Why do you think a change in the POS would be required?

I'm not aware of any occupancy statements in the POS. If anyone is faniliar with that, please cite the location within the document.

The only place I'm aware of where occupancy limits was mentioned in any of my DVC documents is the Product Understanding Checklist, which was in some of the final paperwork. As with most operational aspects of the program and resorts themselves, DVC does have the right to make changes whenever they feel the need - and that has occured a number of times over the years (changing perks, discounts, exchange company, banking/borrowing/transfer policies, adding slides, changing restaurant policies, etc.).

The occupancy limits were established long ago and have been "molded" over time, but no mention of any "legal" limitation is in the POS that I have found. Limits have been published in travel brochures and even in some marketing materials, but seem to be absent in the POS itself.

The Multi site POS lists sleeping capacity. It doesn't spell it out as maximum, given the listing and situation I think one could argue it either way though I think it's be an easier argument given the situation to take the position that the info represented maximums.

 

[RobDoc]

The Multi site POS lists sleeping capacity. It doesn't spell it out as maximum, given the listing and situation I think one could argue it either way though I think it's be an easier argument given the situation to take the position that the info represented maximums.

I have 3 different multi-site POSs and have never found any mention of occupancy limits - there was certainly no mention in my original POS for OKW from 1993. Where specifically are you finding the sleeping capacity mentioned?

 

[Dean]

I have 3 different multi-site POSs and have never found any mention of occupancy limits - there was certainly no mention in my original POS for OKW from 1993. Where specifically are you finding the sleeping capacity mentioned?

Look at the grid in the multi site POS where it gives the number of each type of unit at each resort. The only info in the individual POS's that I am aware of is associated with the points chart where it says "sleeps X" on the chart in the OKW 1993 edition. Looks like that info was moved to the multisite POS once the info was separated out. The other two areas I'm aware of that are related are the Product understanding check list and the II agreement which says maximum occupancy and that is is strictly enforced.

 

[RobDoc]

It doesn't sound like it's included in the legal language in the POS if it's only marked on a chart in some versions of the POS (it is not listed in the ones I have - even my 5/93 POS). My 93 POS does have occupamcy limits for the public area/buildings, but no mention of any limits for the villas themselves. I would expect that any legally binding language would need to be actually included in the written documentation.

The Product Understanding Checklist and II agreement are not a part of the POS.

It sounds like the only places it is enforced at all is regarding II exchanges and calls to CRO because MS has never enforced the limits as stated.

 

[4Pluto]

The occupancy of the units at each Resort is listed in Section 14 of the Multi Site Public Offering Text (Section III of the Multi Site POS). Although it is a chart, it would appear to be as much a part of the Multi Site POS as Section 13 etc. (it is also listed in the table of contents).

What is interesting is that it currently shows units in AKV but still shows the sleeping capacity as 12 for a GV, 8 for a 2 BR (and only lock offs) and 4 for the Studios. Since it only discloses 94 units, it will obviously change as more units are added.