Canada's new Prime Minister's stance on Terrorism given the attacks in Paris

[bcla]

Interesting idea about a place for the refugees.

Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States have taken ZERO refugees! Yes, they’re the logical and closest choice for the Syrian refugees but they’re letting Germany and other countries take in thousands upon thousands of the Muslim refugees. This is so wrong on so many levels but it is important to ask why…

They've taken refugees. The UN doesn't count them as such however. They're not a signatory to the UN Convention on Refugees. Some claims are up to 500,000 Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-syrian-refugee-response-false-and-misleading
http://americablog.com/2015/09/west-accounting-trick-ignore-saudi-arabia-syrian-refugees.html

 

[NFLDERS]

Interesting idea about a place for the refugees.

Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States have taken ZERO refugees! Yes, they’re the logical and closest choice for the Syrian refugees but they’re letting Germany and other countries take in thousands upon thousands of the Muslim refugees. This is so wrong on so many levels but it is important to ask why…

The wealthiest nation of the Arab states near Syria will not admit a single refugee. But what does the situation look like in terms of their capacity?

For weeks now, Europe has been in a state of emergency. This has been the biggest mass of people wandering through Europe Since World War Two. Many western governments are under pressure. There are even allegations made that they don’t do enough.

But at the same time, there are huge capacities available on the Arabian continent.


There is, for example, Mina, a valley east of the city of Mecca. The area is reserved for pilgrims on the hajj and is capable of housing three million people in huge, climatized tent camps.

This tent city was built in the 1990s on twenty square kilometers.

The tents are eight by eight meters; there are kitchens and baths. Since 1997 the tents have even been fireproof.

As the website ‘Amusing Planet’ reports, “Mina is pretty much empty for the rest of the year.” These tents are occupied only five days out of the year, during the Hajj.

Yes, ^ that's what the voice of greed sounds like.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Welcome to the world of global data. I don't understand the refusal to believe that many of these people are not as different from your average neighbors. Many of these people have extensive electronic backgrounds just like you and I have... education, banking, phones, work, medical etc. To think that somehow all of that is non-existent is naive. So yes many of them do indeed have documentation and identification that can be verified.

What would you do if you were suddenly without your physical 'papers'... would you cease to exist? Of course not, it might take some time, but your identification can be easily verified. It is not a impossible task to vet effectively a large amount of these refugees.

It may be a little more difficult. Some are traveling on false papers.

The Muslim families in my area do not use credit cards. They pay with cash. There are strict standards with which, they must comply. I'm assuming this is not unique.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Many refugees are already in safe countries. Why are they being resettled?

 

[Suger Mag]

It may be a little more difficult. Some are traveling on false papers.

Difficult, but not impossible. Those refugees that are easily vetted get in sooner than those who are not easily vetted... and those that cannot be vetted, well then you can take several options once there is a better idea of the numbers and the process. Even going so far as to not allowing them in is a distinct possibility because there will likely be many who DO qualify and can be vetted that that may meet the numbers allowed.

The Muslim families in my area do not use credit cards. They pay with cash. There are strict standards with which, they must comply. I'm assuming this is not unique.

Please do not take this as snark, but I think that is a overly simple generalization of what constitutes millions of people. Many of the Muslims I know, from personal friends, colleagues and students all use credit cards.

 

[NFLDERS]

They've taken refugees. The UN doesn't count them as such however. They're not a signatory to the UN Convention on Refugees. Some claims are up to 500,000 Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-syrian-refugee-response-false-and-misleading
http://americablog.com/2015/09/west-accounting-trick-ignore-saudi-arabia-syrian-refugees.html

Very interesting it's hard to know what to believe.

 

[NFLDERS]

They've taken refugees. The UN doesn't count them as such however. They're not a signatory to the UN Convention on Refugees. Some claims are up to 500,000 Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-syrian-refugee-response-false-and-misleading
http://americablog.com/2015/09/west-accounting-trick-ignore-saudi-arabia-syrian-refugees.html

Dbl post.

 

[gwynne]

Very interesting it's hard to know what to believe.

The Guardian is a reputable news source.

An aside- If one is interested in US as well as international news, it's worth downloading their app. They often have alerts about stories in the US before CNN.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Please do not take this as snark, but I think that is a overly simple generalization of what constitutes millions of people. Many of the Muslims I know, from personal friends, colleagues and students all use credit cards.

There are cards, that are compliant with Sharia i.e. Debit cards. The families, I am familiar with use cash. I'm sure there are many, who are not compliant. Although, I wonder, how many are refugees relocating from Syria?

 

[nanienamou]

Many refugees are already in safe countries. Why are they being resettled?

Please take a minute and watch this...

It will explain that even though many have taken refuge in "safe countries", they can't stay there. They are living in temporary camps, with little to no medical aid, food, etc. They can't go back to Syria because the country is destroyed and Europe needs our help to relieve the area.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Please take a minute and watch this...

It will explain that even though many have taken refuge in "safe countries", they can't stay there. They are living in temporary camps, with little to no medical aid, food, etc. They can't go back to Syria because the country is destroyed and Europe needs our help to relieve the area.

I have seen it, but it doesn't answer my question. We have many in this country, who are in need.

 

[Suger Mag]

There are cards, that are compliant with Sharia i.e. Debit cards. The families, I am familiar with use cash. I'm sure there are many, who are not compliant. Although, I wonder, how many are refugees relocating from Syria?

Not sure of your question, but I think there will be the full gamut of Syrians relocating. If you consider the population: Muslims are about 75% (mostyl Sunni) with roughly 10% Christians and 10% Kurds (other groups make up the remaining 5%). I presume those fleeing Syria are those fleeing IS/Daesh: primarily whose views are generally not compatible with IS or Daesh (Christians, Kurds, and more liberal Muslims) or are simply fleeing from Bashir who is also no peach. I presume that the really intolerant and conservative radicals Islamist would in theory be more comfortable with Daesh and would have less of a desire to flee.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Not sure of your question, but I think there will be the full gamut of Syrians relocating. If you consider the population: Muslims are about 75% (mostyl Sunni) with roughly 10% Christians and 10% Kurds (other groups make up the remaining 5%). I presume those fleeing Syria are those fleeing IS/Daesh: primarily whose views are generally not compatible with IS or Daesh (Christians, Kurds, and more liberal Muslims) or are simply fleeing from Bashir who is also no peach. I presume that the really intolerant and conservative radicals Islamist would in theory be more comfortable with Daesh and would have less of a desire to flee.

Are they more or less likely to comply with Sharia, if the are relocating or already settled/natural citizens, etc? There may be no difference, therefore tracking via credit history wouldn't be greatly affected.

 

[Suger Mag]

Are they more or less likely to comply with Sharia, if the are relocating or already settled/natural citizens, etc? There may be no difference, therefore tracking via credit history wouldn't be greatly affected.

I don't think the Syrian refugees who are Christians or Kurdish refugees will be following Sharia.... nor will the more 'relaxed' or liberal Muslims be following strict Sharia. Again it is not a one size fits all garment. Just like Christian, Jewish and many religions... there are those who are orthodox or conservative or extreme and practice a very strict interpretation of their particular creed or texts... and then there are also those who do not follow a strict interpretation. Logic says to me that the majority of those who are fleeing Syria are those who do not agree or support with the warring factions (Bashir or Daesh/IS)

 

[bcla]

Very interesting it's hard to know what to believe.

The Saudis don't specifically consider them refugees. They're actually given health care and children schooling, along with the right to work. There's no right to settle though. They treat it more like they're guest workers subject to a return to their home countries. Refugees generally have a right to settle. There's nuance here.

 

[lizabu]

Interesting idea about a place for the refugees.

Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States have taken ZERO refugees! Yes, they’re the logical and closest choice for the Syrian refugees but they’re letting Germany and other countries take in thousands upon thousands of the Muslim refugees. This is so wrong on so many levels but it is important to ask why…

The wealthiest nation of the Arab states near Syria will not admit a single refugee. But what does the situation look like in terms of their capacity?

For weeks now, Europe has been in a state of emergency. This has been the biggest mass of people wandering through Europe Since World War Two. Many western governments are under pressure. There are even allegations made that they don’t do enough.

But at the same time, there are huge capacities available on the Arabian continent.


There is, for example, Mina, a valley east of the city of Mecca. The area is reserved for pilgrims on the hajj and is capable of housing three million people in huge, climatized tent camps.

This tent city was built in the 1990s on twenty square kilometers.

The tents are eight by eight meters; there are kitchens and baths. Since 1997 the tents have even been fireproof.

As the website ‘Amusing Planet’ reports, “Mina is pretty much empty for the rest of the year.” These tents are occupied only five days out of the year, during the Hajj.

That's would be an extremely short term solution. If you know anything about the hajj then you would know it is only a few days once per year. These tents are built to be someplace where pilgrims can stay for a few nights while they visit Mecca. This camp is in a desert and there is nowhere for these people to work or go to school or any way to build any kind of life. They would need ongoing care and would have to have food and water brought in to them. A few days once per year is one thing but who the heck is supposed to keep these people alive out there for one thing and what kind of life are they supposed to build for themselves?

The idea of bringing them to Canada is we offer them support for one year. After that they are expected to work and build lives for themselves. What you are suggesting is endlessly supporting these people which is just crazy.

 

[asta]

That's would be an extremely short term solution. If you know anything about the hajj then you would know it is only a few days once per year. These tents are built to be someplace where pilgrims can stay for a few nights while they visit Mecca. This camp is in a desert and there is nowhere for these people to work or go to school or any way to build any kind of life. They would need ongoing care and would have to have food and water brought in to them. A few days once per year is one thing but who the heck is supposed to keep these people alive out there for one thing and what kind of life are they supposed to build for themselves?

The idea of bringing them to Canada is we offer them support for one year. After that they are expected to work and build lives for themselves. What you are suggesting is endlessly supporting these people which is just crazy.

Why can't Saudia Arabia house them there temporarily and work on integrating them into other area where they can support themselves? How is that different from what you are proposing for Canada? The main difference is that they already have facilities in Saudia Arabia at the ready even if it is temporary. The conditions there seem better than in the camps where they are being held in Europe.

 

[bcla]

Why can't Saudia Arabia house them there temporarily and work on integrating them into other area where they can support themselves? How is that different from what you are proposing for Canada? The main difference is that they already have facilities in Saudia Arabia at the ready even if it is temporary. The conditions there seem better than in the camps where they are being held in Europe.

Again, the Saudis are taking in Syrians. They're being housed in apartments and are technically considered guest workers. However, they're not considered refugees by international standards.

 

[lizabu]

Why can't Saudia Arabia house them there temporarily and work on integrating them into other area where they can support themselves? How is that different from what you are proposing for Canada? The main difference is that they already have facilities in Saudia Arabia at the ready even if it is temporary. The conditions there seem better than in the camps where they are being held in Europe.

The camps are a temporary solution too. They're talking about housing them on military bases here in Canada. In the city I live in the military base is in the city and on a bus route. How exactly are people supposed to get to job interviews, work and school from way out in the desert?

 

[nanienamou]

Why can't Saudia Arabia house them there temporarily and work on integrating them into other area where they can support themselves? How is that different from what you are proposing for Canada? The main difference is that they already have facilities in Saudia Arabia at the ready even if it is temporary. The conditions there seem better than in the camps where they are being held in Europe.

Experts are adamant that the more they stay in these camps, the more they are prone to radicalization. Just one of the many sources on the subject.:
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...-in-not-accepting-syrian-refugees-into-the-us
"Refugee camps are fertile ground for breeding extremism. The generally squalid conditions in the camps provide terrorists organizations with convincing propaganda for recruiting. The camps also are easy places to hide within, allowing terrorist recruits ample space to carry out their efforts with very little oversight. Therefore if our response to the refugee crisis is to encourage massive refugee camps, we may unwittingly be fostering training camps for the next generation of terrorists."

"The screening process for refugee admissions is already rigorous. A group of former security and diplomatic officials recently wrote an open letter to the Obama administration arguing that the U.S. could accept as many as 100,000 refugees. A Department of Homeland Security official stated that there is no evidence that refugees accepted into the U.S. are more likely to commit terrorism than anyone else in the country. In fact, there have been no recorded terrorist attacks committed by refugees. The U.S. has admitted 1.5 million refugees from the Middle East since September 11, 2001. The terrorist attacks that have occurred since 9/11 have been committed either by American natives or non-refugee immigrants."

I would suggest to people fearful of the refugees a little research on the subject, see what experts around the world are saying about the intake of refugees. It's seems overwhelmingly clear that turning our backs to them will do more harm.

Here is another nice read on the subject, this is from HuffPost, but the same line of thought is found in many many news outlet.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david...ris_b_8577480.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063