Can spouse have child baptised/confirmed without consent of other parent?

[GeorgeG]

I think it comes down to the particular church being willing to do it. I have three children (all adults now) and they were all christened against my wishes. The first time, the original minister declined after I told him how I felt.

 

[golfgal]

We had a boy in our old church that went through the RCIA process to be baptized and make his First Communion. It's a year long process, it was his idea. His parents were not married (not sure if they were divorced or never married). He invited his dad to the Ceremony (Easter Vigil Mass-Saturday evening before Easter) and right before the Mass was to start the Dad took the boy into the Sanctuary and told our Priest that he would not allow this to happen. They had two pews of family and friends there to watch. The little boy was so bubbly and happy up until this point and he was just in tears afterwards. It was one of the saddest things I have ever seen a "parent" do to a child. He was just crushed.

 

[DisneyScraps]

When I got divorced one of the things that is in my agreement is that my daughter is to be raised Catholic and she is not to attend any other church except for a pageant or special event.

 

[minniebeth]

We had a boy in our old church that went through the RCIA process to be baptized and make his First Communion. It's a year long process, it was his idea. His parents were not married (not sure if they were divorced or never married). He invited his dad to the Ceremony (Easter Vigil Mass-Saturday evening before Easter) and right before the Mass was to start the Dad took the boy into the Sanctuary and told our Priest that he would not allow this to happen. They had two pews of family and friends there to watch. The little boy was so bubbly and happy up until this point and he was just in tears afterwards. It was one of the saddest things I have ever seen a "parent" do to a child. He was just crushed.

Which leads to...what does the DD want to do? 9 year olds certainly are old enough to have some idea of what they would like to do in this situation. In all the religous ed. prep for the older kids (Communion/Confirmation), they are always asked in many formal ways "do you choose this: is this what you desire?". If the answer from the DD9 even hinted at, "my dad is making me but my mom doesn't want me to"...it would be for sure looked at further. Not from a legal standpoint, but from an ethical one.

 

[luvmy3]

Which leads to...what does the DD want to do? 9 year olds certainly are old enough to have some idea of what they would like to do in this situation. In all the religous ed. prep for the older kids (Communion/Confirmation), they are always asked in many formal ways "do you choose this: is this what you desire?". If the answer from the DD9 even hinted at, "my dad is making me but my mom doesn't want me to"...it would be for sure looked at further. Not from a legal standpoint, but from an ethical one.

I don't know how it is now, but when I was younger and going through religious ed, it never really mattered what the child wanted, it was the parent's decision up until Confirmation (which was when a "child" was old enough to really know if thats what they wanted. I was 17). Now a days Confirmation happens at a young age where alot of kids are really being "made" to do it by parents. Of course we are talking about baptism and First Communion so again, I'm not sure just how much say a child gets here. Maybe it would depend on the individual Priest, but the bolded won't be true in all cases.

 

[maddiel]

We had a boy in our old church that went through the RCIA process to be baptized and make his First Communion. It's a year long process, it was his idea. His parents were not married (not sure if they were divorced or never married). He invited his dad to the Ceremony (Easter Vigil Mass-Saturday evening before Easter) and right before the Mass was to start the Dad took the boy into the Sanctuary and told our Priest that he would not allow this to happen. They had two pews of family and friends there to watch. The little boy was so bubbly and happy up until this point and he was just in tears afterwards. It was one of the saddest things I have ever seen a "parent" do to a child. He was just crushed.

How old was the boy? I thought you had to be an 'adult' to do RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults)? When my oldest was getting ready to be confirmed I remember discussing it and being told that if the kids didn't go through the parish preparation program in grade 9 or 10 they had the option of doing RCIA once they were 16 (might have been 15?)

I know things vary from diocese to diocese, but it seems peculiar to put a child in a specifically adult program. Our parish usually does an adapted program for children who want to make a sacrament outside the usual time frame.

M.

 

[Nancyg56]

I have no idea what can be done legally but I believe that in order to have a child your DD's age Baptized in the Church your ex will need to join the Parish and take her to Mass and religious education classes. I doubt that a Priest will simply perform a Sacrament without seeing a commitment from a parent.

 

[minniebeth]

I don't know how it is now, but when I was younger and going through religious ed, it never really mattered what the child wanted, it was the parent's decision up until Confirmation (which was when a "child" was old enough to really know if thats what they wanted. I was 17). Now a days Confirmation happens at a young age where alot of kids are really being "made" to do it by parents. Of course we are talking about baptism and First Communion so again, I'm not sure just how much say a child gets here. Maybe it would depend on the individual Priest, but the bolded won't be true in all cases.

That was then, this is now...I'm postive they want the children's understanding and committment, as young as they may be, to the faith that they are accepting. Even with baptism, 9 is not a "baby" and through the education process that she would be required to do, it would be apparant if there was a dispute amongst the parents that this is not what one parent would want and that the DD9 was being "forced" to do this.

 

[LuvOrlando]

In answer to the original question, your DH can probably do whatever he wants but your child will be who she wants to be regardless of anyone else. I would recommend treading lightly here, it sounds like you can turn your child off to any beliefs very easily. if both of you bad mouth the others beliefs your child may reject it all as false.

Here is something I don't understand. If people are so dead set against considering other belief systems as valid, how come they marry people or have children with people that are different? I mean if you can't respect THAT I don't see much of a chance for respecting anything else. Color me confused but for me respect is a part of love and I'm just not feeling it. This sort of thing just sounds like a battle of the wills to me.

 

[luvmy3]

That was then, this is now...I'm postive they want the children's understanding and committment, as young as they may be, to the faith that they are accepting. Even with baptism, 9 is not a "baby" and through the education process that she would be required to do, it would be apparant if there was a dispute amongst the parents that this is not what one parent would want and that the DD9 was being "forced" to do this.

So, do you think that all kids taking religious instruction are truly there because of their own free will? And if they did admit they were doiing it because their parents want them to, or are forcing them, the Priest would decide to not let them continue with their instruction?
Just curious because by your logic, thats what it sounds like.

All I'm saying is that, while in some cases it may matter what the child wants, it will not in all. As long as one Catholic parent wants their child baptized and its legal to do so, there may be no "looking into it further" because one non Catholic parent is against it. Also, it won't matter that a child doesn't want to, it is their parent's decision, and it was made when they made their marriage vows

 

[golfgal]

How old was the boy? I thought you had to be an 'adult' to do RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults)? When my oldest was getting ready to be confirmed I remember discussing it and being told that if the kids didn't go through the parish preparation program in grade 9 or 10 they had the option of doing RCIA once they were 16 (might have been 15?)

I know things vary from diocese to diocese, but it seems peculiar to put a child in a specifically adult program. Our parish usually does an adapted program for children who want to make a sacrament outside the usual time frame.

M.

He was 9 or 10. In our old church they did have classes run through the RCIA program for kids. It was pretty much the same prep classes, just geared toward kids. The RCIA program is really getting adults ready for Confirmation into the church-if they have been baptized somewhere else they are not baptized again, same with receiving First Communion-if they have received elsewhere, they don't go through that again and only do the confirmation process. If they have not had the other sacraments, they receive all of them at Easter Vigil. This boy was just baptized and received his First Communion (or would have). He would then have joined the CCD/Faith Formation program to become confirmed with his agemates later on (junior year in high school for that parish).

 

[golfgal]

So, do you think that all kids taking religious instruction are truly there because of their own free will? And if they did admit they were doiing it because their parents want them to, or are forcing them, the Priest would decide to not let them continue with their instruction?
Just curious because by your logic, thats what it sounds like.

All I'm saying is that, while in some cases it may matter what the child wants, it will not in all. As long as one Catholic parent wants their child baptized and its legal to do so, there may be no "looking into it further" because one non Catholic parent is against it. Also, it won't matter that a child doesn't want to, it is their parent's decision, and it was made when they made their marriage vows

In the case of this little boy in our church, yes, it was HIS choice. His mom was not Catholic-or even religious for that matter (although after her son went through the process she did join the next year). He attended church with a friend and decided that was what he wanted. He went to classes every Wednesday for a year, didn't miss a single class, so yes, it was HIS choice.

 

[js]

I didn't read all the responses but I wanted to tell you what I know from my friend.
She and her dh got divorced as soon as their dd was born.
The father would/does see the child on weekends (the dd is now 17).
My friend is Jewish and her dh is Christian.
When she was about 3 months old and got her dd back after the weekend, she was informed the baby was Baptised, party, etc. We use ot live right across the street from each other so I knew when it happened.
She never was confirmed.
We live in New York.

 

[luvmy3]

In the case of this little boy in our church, yes, it was HIS choice. His mom was not Catholic-or even religious for that matter (although after her son went through the process she did join the next year). He attended church with a friend and decided that was what he wanted. He went to classes every Wednesday for a year, didn't miss a single class, so yes, it was HIS choice.

I'm not saying that there aren't kids out there who are choosing this on their own. I'm saying that in (some) cases where they are doing it because their parent's want them to, that it won't matter to the powers that be at the Church.

 

[minniebeth]

So, do you think that all kids taking religious instruction are truly there because of their own free will? And if they did admit they were doiing it because their parents want them to, or are forcing them, the Priest would decide to not let them continue with their instruction?
Just curious because by your logic, thats what it sounds like.

All I'm saying is that, while in some cases it may matter what the child wants, it will not in all. As long as one Catholic parent wants their child baptized and its legal to do so, there may be no "looking into it further" because one non Catholic parent is against it. Also, it won't matter that a child doesn't want to, it is their parent's decision, and it was made when they made their marriage vows

Of course there are many kids that become the religion and go through training programs because it's what their parents want. But in the Catholic religion, other than Baptism, it is part of the curriculum that the children are aware of and accept what they are doing on their own free will. In this case, a 9yo child would most likely be Baptized and have her First Communion together, but not before training/education. Through the training, in this case, any red flags of conflict would most likely be further investigated as to what is causing the conflict.

 

[plutotek]

Of course there are many kids that become the religion and go through training programs because it's what their parents want. But in the Catholic religion, other than Baptism, it is part of the curriculum that the children are aware of and accept what they are doing on their own free will. In this case, a 9yo child would most likely be Baptized and have her First Communion together, but not before training/education. Through the training, in this case, any red flags of conflict would most likely be further investigated as to what is causing the conflict.

Not sure where this came from, but I don't recall any options. As a child in the Catholic church, and any other church most likely, said child is at the whims of the parental unit, and free will doesn't enter into the equation. Yes, there is 'training' (read: indoctrination), but the child most likely will not ever feel as if they have a choice.

 

[luvmy3]

Of course there are many kids that become the religion and go through training programs because it's what their parents want. But in the Catholic religion, other than Baptism, it is part of the curriculum that the children are aware of and accept what they are doing on their own free will. In this case, a 9yo child would most likely be Baptized and have her First Communion together, but not before training/education. Through the training, in this case, any red flags of conflict would most likely be further investigated as to what is causing the conflict.

And I'm not denying any of that, but what you seem to be ignoring is that there will be exceptions, there will be cases where none of this would be investigated further. Or if it was investigated, it wouldn't matter what was found in that investigation, like if it is something similiar to the OPs situation.


Yes, Plutotek you are spot on, and thats what I'm trying to convey.

OP, if you are bound and determined to make sure your child won't be baptized, go to the Priest and explain the situation. You may very well find they will agree with you, however be prepared that is also very possible they won't.

 

[Microcell]

I am a religion hopper.. My dad is jewish and my mom was Christian and I am a ping pong ball!

We started out Jewish, them my parents divorced. My mom missed Christmas so we started going to church and I got baptized... more for my mom than me probably, though she was not dragging me kicking and screaming.. that comes later.

My mom passed away when I was 16 so off to live with dad and stepmonster (she really is not good read on for proof). Stepmonster is Conservative Jewish.. so off through the Mikva we went to get "converted" back to Judiasm. That was completely by force and I went kicking and screaming. Stepmonster made us to do it because she supposedly couldn't have Passover in her home unless we were all Jewish (a lie I just found out two years ago).

So, understandibly, I still sort of feel like a ping pong ball, but am going to church at my DD 13's request! She got baptized also at her request. I decided not to let my kids be tossed around so they could have a good religious foundation of some sort. So if OP's child wants it then for sure I think it is best to let them do it, because this feeling of not having a clue what is right stinks. If it is grandstanding by soon to be ex... let him read this post, because using religion to bother the ex winds up with a very confused kid. Let what is best for the child prevail, and at this age baptism should be their choice.

 

[minniebeth]

Not sure where this came from, but I don't recall any options. As a child in the Catholic church, and any other church most likely, said child is at the whims of the parental unit, and free will doesn't enter into the equation. Yes, there is 'training' (read: indoctrination), but the child most likely will not ever feel as if they have a choice.

I'm sorry, this is not our experience and I disagree. I know many Catholic relgious ed instructors. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Nancyg56]

So, do you think that all kids taking religious instruction are truly there because of their own free will? And if they did admit they were doiing it because their parents want them to, or are forcing them, the Priest would decide to not let them continue with their instruction?
Just curious because by your logic, thats what it sounds like.

All I'm saying is that, while in some cases it may matter what the child wants, it will not in all. As long as one Catholic parent wants their child baptized and its legal to do so, there may be no "looking into it further" because one non Catholic parent is against it. Also, it won't matter that a child doesn't want to, it is their parent's decision, and it was made when they made their marriage vows

I am not sure but I believe that if the child was a bay the Priest would Baptize her after the parent has met the requirements set up by the Parish. At the age this child is I think that the Priest would be looking for a commitment from the parent. In my Church the kids have to meet certain criteria prior to making their First Communion and while they may not have any say in their religious education they must participate in the program. I am guessing that in this case the child would have to be enrolled in the religious education program and be attending Mass with her dad.

I understand that the kids have no say in their religious training but I do think that as the kids get older the Priest is going to be at least talking to them to make sure that the parent asking for the Sacraments is actually participating. It is a requirement in our Church, no exceptions.parents must attend Mass and take the children to any classes etc.