Call me stupid, but...

[Kathi OD]

what is the difference between an RN, LPN, and CNA?

I know that the RN has more schooling than the other two, but exactly what are the differences as far as duties on the job are concerned?

 

[tvguy]

Here are some resources. RN these days are often just supervisors, overseeing LVNs and LPN's. Licensing and education requirements, duties (as in what they are allowed to do) and pay are different.
The use of LVN's and LPN's has soared as hosptials look to cut costs. My mom is an RN, and when she graduated from nursing school in 1946 LVN's and LPN's were rarely used. She has some strong opinions about them, but I won't go into that, nor will I go into her opinion about RN's with only a 2 year degree.


http://***************************/article/442305/rn_vs_lpn_whats_the_difference.html?cat=5

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-lpn-and-lvn/

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

CNA is certified nursing assistant. They are not a nurse. My friend was one. She was going to school to be a nurse. But as a CNA on the mother/baby unit, she checked my vitals and baby vitals and if I needed something like refill on water she would do it.

She couldn't get me my meds even--but she could tell the nurse and the nurse would do it.

 

[laurie31]

RN - plans, implements (either directly themselves or by ordering others to do so), and evaluates care. May administer Chemo, IV push medicines, medicines via central line. Supervises LPNs and aides, may move into management and supervise other RNs as well.

LPN - works under the supervision of an RN in hospital settings (around here anyway) I think they work independantly in some settings. They can work in doctor's offices too. They CANNOT (here) give chemo, IV push, access central lines, or do admission histories. They also cannot work (here) in critical care units.

Aide - changes sheets, bathes patients, fills ice pitchers, assists with feeding, changing, etc. They also often do vital signs. They cannot give medicine or chart. (here they can chart the vital signs if they took them, but they can't write in the nurse's notes).

 

[wdwmom0f3]

My DD is about to graduate HS and she is wanting to go into nursing. I have been told that she can become an RN after two years of college. Now we have been told that she must first get her two year of basics, then two years of nursing classes. Anyone know what we REALLY need? I would love for her to be able to go to school for two years and be able to make a good living for herself, but what ever it takes, that's what we will do.

 

[megsters]

In addition to what Laurie said, some facilities are no longer hiring LPNs for nursing duties. I have several friends that went to school for their LPN, and are finding that they have 2 choices. 1. They can work as a CNA, or 2. Go back to school, and get their RN.

 

[OceanAnnie]

My DD is about to graduate HS and she is wanting to go into nursing. I have been told that she can become an RN after two years of college. Now we have been told that she must first get her two year of basics, then two years of nursing classes. Anyone know what we REALLY need? I would love for her to be able to go to school for two years and be able to make a good living for herself, but what ever it takes, that's what we will do.

There are three ways to become an RN.

1.) Associate's degree at a community college, 2 years.
2.) There are programs through hospitals, but I can't tell you how long they are. Seems like I haven't heard much about them lately. They might be phasing these programs out. I don't know.
3.) Bachelor's degree with a college or university, 4 years.

 

[cepmom]

My DD is about to graduate HS and she is wanting to go into nursing. I have been told that she can become an RN after two years of college. Now we have been told that she must first get her two year of basics, then two years of nursing classes. Anyone know what we REALLY need? I would love for her to be able to go to school for two years and be able to make a good living for herself, but what ever it takes, that's what we will do.

something to think about...some hospitals around here are starting to require their nurses to have bachelor degrees vs associates degrees. Not sure how may more will follow suit

 

[PebblesMK]

My DD is about to graduate HS and she is wanting to go into nursing. I have been told that she can become an RN after two years of college. Now we have been told that she must first get her two year of basics, then two years of nursing classes. Anyone know what we REALLY need? I would love for her to be able to go to school for two years and be able to make a good living for herself, but what ever it takes, that's what we will do.

I'm sure somebody can help you a bit more, but here is what I need for an associates. General courses before I can even be admitted into the RN program.
- General and advanced Anatomy and physiology
- Microbiology
- Developmental Pysch
- Communications
- Psychology
- Chemistry
- Written Communications
- Sociology

And there are a few more that I can't remember off the top of my head. Taking the CNA course is also a requirement. After that, most schools have a wait list (mine is 5 years) and then you'll take your 2 years of clinicals. The first two years is the estimated time it would take to get through all of those general classes.

 

[dakcp2001]

My DD is about to graduate HS and she is wanting to go into nursing. I have been told that she can become an RN after two years of college. Now we have been told that she must first get her two year of basics, then two years of nursing classes. Anyone know what we REALLY need? I would love for her to be able to go to school for two years and be able to make a good living for herself, but what ever it takes, that's what we will do.

You can do an AS in Nusring which is a 2 year degree, but it involves intense full time classes, A&P, Microbiology & Nursing classes. I would recommend taking all the prereqs & non nursing classes first then do the 2 years of nursing only because clinicals are very involved and burn you out. SO most people take 3 years to complete the 2 year degree. The benefit of doing the 2 year degree is you can work as an RN and most hositals offer tuition assistance to go back for your BSN, but again, working full time and taking nursing classes is not easy.

As someone so young, I would encourage her to just suck it up & do the 4 year degree rather than spread the 2 year degree out over 3. She will never regret having a BS.

I think the most important thing is to check the reputation of the school, and their rate of passing NCLEX. You can look this up on most state websites. You want your daughter to go to the school that sets her up with the highest probability of passing the NCLEX (RN exam) on the first try. I chose a 2 year school with a 98% pass rate over a local 4 year school with a 62% pass rate. I was fortunate to have taken all hte prereqs with my previous degree, but I can tell you from what I saw, those that tried to stuff everything in and do it all in 2 years were struggling.

 

[LovableGluttons]

You can do an AS in Nusring which is a 2 year degree, but it involves intense full time classes, A&P, Microbiology & Nursing classes. I would recommend taking all the prereqs & non nursing classes first then do the 2 years of nursing only because clinicals are very involved and burn you out. SO most people take 3 years to complete the 2 year degree. The benefit of doing the 2 year degree is you can work as an RN and most hositals offer tuition assistance to go back for your BSN, but again, working full time and taking nursing classes is not easy.

As someone so young, I would encourage her to just suck it up & do the 4 year degree rather than spread the 2 year degree out over 3. She will never regret having a BS.

I think the most important thing is to check the reputation of the school, and their rate of passing NCLEX. You can look this up on most state websites. You want your daughter to go to the school that sets her up with the highest probability of passing the NCLEX (RN exam) on the first try. I chose a 2 year school with a 98% pass rate over a local 4 year school with a 62% pass rate. I was fortunate to have taken all hte prereqs with my previous degree, but I can tell you from what I saw, those that tried to stuff everything in and do it all in 2 years were struggling.

I agree! Many Associate RN programs having long waiting lists that would make it take longer than 4 years to finish. If you just go with a 4 year program to begin with, you get the BSN as a bonus!

 

[laurie31]

My DD is about to graduate HS and she is wanting to go into nursing. I have been told that she can become an RN after two years of college. Now we have been told that she must first get her two year of basics, then two years of nursing classes. Anyone know what we REALLY need? I would love for her to be able to go to school for two years and be able to make a good living for herself, but what ever it takes, that's what we will do.

Well, YMMV greatly, depending on where you are, but I see you are here with me. So...I will tell you that around here, for bedside nursing positions, no one really cares what degree you have as long as you have "RN" after your name.

I got an Associates in 2 years. Yes, it's possible. No, it's not easy, and you have NO life. I went to Samford back when they had what was called a 2+2 program. *All* students got their ASN, and those who wished to (which was most of us) continued on 2 more years to a BSN. The advantages: that part-time job you had on the weekends suddenly paid 3 times more, since you were an RN instead of an aide, and you could do a lot more in clinicals, since you were on your own licence and not your instructor's.

I highly recommend a BSN. UAB's program is good, and Samford's (no longer a 2+2 now) is excellent. However, Jeff State Community College also has a very good program and its graduates are highly regarded. In fact, my own DD will probably start at Jeff State and then transfer. (she's interested in nursing too. ) She can make her own 2+2 (or 3+2 as the reality may be) program, if she wants to hurry up and start working as an RN. As dakcp said, she will NEVER regret having her Bachelor's. Management opportunities may seem very uninteresting and very far away right now, but the years will fly by, and she will not regret having the requirements to advance when that day comes.

How long it takes to get all the prerequisites for nursing school depends on her grades, and what program she applies to, and how many slots they have, etc. In other words, there are too many variables to be able to say. She needs to talk to her guidance counselor and tour some college campuses and investigate their nursing programs.

If she's interested in pediatrics, she should know that Children's will be hiring TONS of nurses in 2012. (they're opening about 100 new beds. They can't do that without staff). If she positions herself right (to graduate in May 2012) she can ride that hiring wave when she graduates, get an entry-level position with her ASN, and use the benefit of tuition reimbursement from her employer to pay for the last two years of her Bachelor's.

My DD is only a freshman, or that's exactly what I'd want her to do. She wants the NICU, which can be hard to get into.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Think of it this way.

RN = Professional Nurse

LPN = Technical Nurse

CNA = Certified Nursing Assistant

Pathways to RN education is a HUGE debate within the nursing profession itself. The roots of that go way, way back and have a lot to do with the women's movement and hence the nursing shortage.

I've noticed on these threads there are regional differences to some of the trends people report in their areas. In many of Boston's teaching hospitals, for instance, bedside newly licensed nurses are now required to have a BSN - so degree does matter. This requirement is based on studies that show a lower mortality rate at hospitals with a greater number of BSN prepared nurses, who nursing leaders believe posses better critical thinking, leadership and other skills so necessary in caring for the complex patient needs of today.

Here are some articles for those who want to learn more:

The Impact of Education on Nursing Practice http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Media/FactSheets/ImpactEdNP.htm

AACN Applauds New Study that Confirms Link Between
Nursing Education and Patient Mortality Rates http://www.aacn.nche.edu/media/newsreleases/archives/2003/2003aikenstudy.htm

Journal of the American Medical Association: Educational Levels of Hospital Nurses and Surgical Patient Mortality http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/290/12/1617.abstract

Raising the Bar for Nursing Education http://www.nursezone.com/Nursing-Ne...sing-the-Bar-for-Nursing-Education_33412.aspx

Will the BSN be required from newly licensed nurses in the future? http://www.musillo.com/2010/05/ny-considering-bsn-requirement-for-rns.html

Nursing Articles To BSN or not to BSN - That is the nurse's question! http://www.*************.net/articles/se060326-bsn-nurse.htm

 

[mhsjax]

Here are some resources. RN these days are often just supervisors, overseeing LVNs and LPN's. Licensing and education requirements, duties (as in what they are allowed to do) and pay are different.
The use of LVN's and LPN's has soared as hosptials look to cut costs. My mom is an RN, and when she graduated from nursing school in 1946 LVN's and LPN's were rarely used. She has some strong opinions about them, but I won't go into that, nor will I go into her opinion about RN's with only a 2 year degree.


http://***************************/article/442305/rn_vs_lpn_whats_the_difference.html?cat=5

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-lpn-and-lvn/

Most be different out on CA. Here hospitals will not use LPN's so RN's aren't just supervising them. Also around here our 2 year degree is excellent, in fact most nurses will tell you that they actually have better clinical skills. Although for a person just starting out, if they can I would say go ahead and get the 4 year degree. YOu will probably need it eventually.

 

[deegack]

Here are some resources. RN these days are often just supervisors, overseeing LVNs and LPN's. Licensing and education requirements, duties (as in what they are allowed to do) and pay are different.
The use of LVN's and LPN's has soared as hosptials look to cut costs. My mom is an RN, and when she graduated from nursing school in 1946 LVN's and LPN's were rarely used. She has some strong opinions about them, but I won't go into that, nor will I go into her opinion about RN's with only a 2 year degree.


http://***************************/article/442305/rn_vs_lpn_whats_the_difference.html?cat=5

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-lpn-and-lvn/

When my mom went to school in the 60s the lpn was the way to go. She actually has strong opinions about RNs who think because she's an LPN she can't do anything right, that is until they need help and come to her. Not to mention the 2 am phone calls because there is an emergency and the doctor on call only wants to work with her or the RN on call doesn't know what to do for a particular operation (she's an OR nurse), you know even though the RN makes twice as much as her. She has saved patients lives because she caught mistakes by RNs and told the doctor when the RNs told her she didn't know what she was talking about (usually involving instrument counts that the RNs in the hospital think are beneith them and therefore they often half ***).
Op if your daughter is interested in nursing I recommend she volunteer at a hospital, talk to people at the hospitals about what they are looking for and spend some time investigating any programs available. A frien of mine got her entire education paid for and a guaranteed job if she worked I. State for at least five years after graduation.
Good luck

 

[jaminmd]

Here are some resources. RN these days are often just supervisors, overseeing LVNs and LPN's. Licensing and education requirements, duties (as in what they are allowed to do) and pay are different.
The use of LVN's and LPN's has soared as hosptials look to cut costs. My mom is an RN, and when she graduated from nursing school in 1946 LVN's and LPN's were rarely used. She has some strong opinions about them, but I won't go into that, nor will I go into her opinion about RN's with only a 2 year degree.


http://***************************/article/442305/rn_vs_lpn_whats_the_difference.html?cat=5

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-lpn-and-lvn/

Maybe they use LPN/LVN's in hospitals in California but other area's of the country have RN only hospitals, with LPN's mainly in rehabs & nursing homes. With all due respect to your mother, she graduated in 1946. The world of nursing has evolved quite a bit since then.

Your facts are incorrect that most RN's are just supervisors. Most RN's are direct care providers in hospitals, at least out here on the east coast.

FWIW, I am an RN and have worked with some of the best LPN's on the planet, many of whom I would trust the lives of my loved one's with.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

When my mom went to school in the 60s the lpn was the way to go. She actually has strong opinions about RNs who think because she's an LPN she can't do anything right, that is until they need help and come to her. Not to mention the 2 am phone calls because there is an emergency and the doctor on call only wants to work with her or the RN on call doesn't know what to do for a particular operation (she's an OR nurse), you know even though the RN makes twice as much as her. She has saved patients lives because she caught mistakes by RNs and told the doctor when the RNs told her she didn't know what she was talking about (usually involving instrument counts that the RNs in the hospital think are beneith them and therefore they often half ***).

These types of posts on these threads always crack me up.

I'd so much rather see someone post the merits of the LPN without putting down the RN, or even post the merits of the ADN without putting down the BSN.

 

[Kathi OD]

ok, you are stupid. disclaimer: op asked for this, just trying to help out.

man, did I put my foot in it or what??


Now to why I asked...

Maybe they use LPN/LVN's in hospitals in California but other area's of the country have RN only hospitals, with LPN's mainly in rehabs & nursing homes. With all due respect to your mother, she graduated in 1946. The world of nursing has evolved quite a bit since then.

Your facts are incorrect that most RN's are just supervisors. Most RN's are direct care providers in hospitals, at least out here on the east coast.

FWIW, I am an RN and have worked with some of the best LPN's on the planet, many of whom I would trust the lives of my loved one's with.

It seemed to me that back in the day, there were only LPNs and RNs. I don't remember seeing one CNA, or any other kind of nursing assistant for that matter.

But, when I was in the hospital recently, there were NO LPNs, but there were lots of CNAs, who seemed to have many of the same responsibilities (not all of the same, but many) that LPNs had when I was last in a hospital (25 years ago). That got me thinking about what the differences actually were.



Thanks everyone for bringing me out of the nursing dark ages.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Where I work, in the 80s, there were a few LPNs still working on inpatient units. But there were limitations on what they could do. No IV medications, no blood products, unable to operate certain equipment, not trained in the nursing process the way the RN is, not trained in educating patients using the nursing process, etc. In fact, RNs had to do those things for them, so it became difficult having them as part of the team as patient care needs became more complex and hospital regulations became more strict and comprehensive. Since the early 90s, LPNs could no longer work on inpatient units. Many became RNs at that point (but still had to leave their positions) or took positions in clinics.

It's really not about whether LPNs give good nursing care. Heck, I worked with many, many LPNs early in my career who were awesome and I have a family member who's an LPN who is fantastic at what she does (chronic home care). But it IS about the training and scope of practice. I'd be extremely surprised to hear that LPNs still work no inpatient units in hospitals, simply because of the reasons I mentioned above, and also about the studies I listed above re mortality rates.

 

[jaminmd]

It seemed to me that back in the day, there were only LPNs and RNs. I don't remember seeing one CNA, or any other kind of nursing assistant for that matter.

But, when I was in the hospital recently, there were NO LPNs, but there were lots of CNAs, who seemed to have many of the same responsibilities (not all of the same, but many) that LPNs had when I was last in a hospital (25 years ago). That got me thinking about what the differences actually were.



Thanks everyone for bringing me out of the nursing dark ages.

Let me clarify. When I say RN only hospitals, I mean RN's & nursing assistants (or techs, in some areas) but no LPN's.

Over the years, many tasks that used to be performed by nurses have been "delegated" to techs. However, the expectation is that the tech has been trained & proven competent in that skill. They are still working under the license of the RN & the RN is ultimately responsible.

I've never agreed with a lot of this delegation & I'll give you an example of why. Many years ago hospitals began allowing techs to insert foley catheters. This is a sterile procedure and many techs have never taken a class in microbiology. Nurses learn to do this technique in college but they also understand the "why" of using sterile technique.

CMS (Centers for Medicare/Medicaid Services) has made catheter associated urinary tract infections a "never event" (meaning it should never happen) that they will no longer reimburse hospitals for. Guess what? Our techs no longer insert foley catheters. Nurses understand the importance of using proper technique, much more than someone with little to no professional training.

Sorry if I'm rambling but I hope that clarified my earlier statement & helped to answer your question.