Blue Card Eiligibilty

thanxfornoticin

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
I know this information is likely out here somewhere, but I've not been able to find an answer to my specific question. I hope some of you DVC experts can help.

We purchased 190 points direct from Disney at OKW many back in the 1990s. I know that contract gets us the Blue Card. We then purchased 350 resale points at AKL in 2015. If we sell the original OKW contract and no longer hold any 'direct' points, are we not grand-fathered to a Blue Card based on when we purchased the AKL contract - prior to around April, 2016? Wasn't that the point they started changing the Blue Card rules a bit? Or am I missing something? I'd really appreciate a response from someone who knows, or even might've done something like this. Thank you.
 

RoseGold

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
They’ve tweaked this multiple times, the first being in 2016. So yes, for now your 2015 AKL would count as unrestricted, and you would hold enough to have a Blue Card.

Disney has never said that they believe they were legally required to grandfather or that grandfathering would last forever, but that’s the current policy. Current policy would also allow you to gratuitously transfer this and retain Blue Card. That one I think could go at any moment.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Since both of your contracts were bought prior to restrictions for resale buyers regarding membership extras…blue card…you should be fine.
 

kniquy

DIS Veteran
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
I'd really appreciate a response from someone who knows, or even might've done something like this.
Your AK resale does have some restrictions of not being able to use those points for ABD, Cruises or booking non-dvc rooms (might be some other stuff you can't book but I can't recall). But you do get the other blue card benefits. I also bought my AK resale in 2015 so happy that i have the blue card benefits.
 

drusba

I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.
Joined
Aug 19, 1999
With 2015 purchased resale points, you will have all the same benefits and the one restriction that you currently have owning both OKW and AKV. The one restriction that you already have, the inability to use those AKV points for the Disney Collections -- such as Disney hotels, Concierge Collection, Adventure, and cruises -- will continue.
 

Wakey

DIS Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Just be wary it wouldn’t surprise me with current management if (new card on app situation?) they decided to ungrandfather resale points for blue card. They couldn’t do it for direct I don’t think. My 25 pointer direct will be the last I’ll sell.
 

cm8

<font color=blue>Half of the time we're rushing ar
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Just be wary it wouldn’t surprise me with current management if (new card on app situation?) they decided to ungrandfather resale points for blue card. They couldn’t do it for direct I don’t think. My 25 pointer direct will be the last I’ll sell.
Is this even possible??
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Is this even possible??
Yes, The membership extras are incidental benefits and thus the terms and conditions can change,

I think the piece that would not be allowed for grandfathered points is in their use…which is separate from blue card benefits.

I don’t think they can, for example, tell people who have points purchased resale prior to 2019 they can no longer use at RIV because it was part of the terms in how RIV…as we assume future resorts..entered into to BVTC.

But for blue card discounts and special events…they can certainly change the rules. But I don’t see them doing that unless they decided to offer something extraordinary like free Tickets etc…which we know is not going to happen!
 
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crisi

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
They can also change the direct minimum retroactively - if you bought 50 points for a Blue Card back when it was 50 points, there isn't any reason why DVC couldn't change that to 150. I don't think that will happen because there would inevitably be a lawsuit (and the members might win). Incidental benefits are not guaranteed and can change - that is in our contracts.
 
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cm8

<font color=blue>Half of the time we're rushing ar
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
They can also change the direct minimum retroactively - if you bought 50 points for a Blue Card back when it was 50 points, there isn't any reason why DVC couldn't change that to 150. I don't think that will happen because there would inevitably be a lawsuit (and the members might win). Incidental benefits are not guaranteed and can change - that is in our contracts.
So, theoretically, any amount of points needed to qualify for said benefits could just be changed and no recourse for the ones who bought in at that amount and timeframe? Wow!
 

Lorana

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2001
So, theoretically, any amount of points needed to qualify for said benefits could just be changed and no recourse for the ones who bought in at that amount and timeframe? Wow!
I'd need to double-check, but at least for direct purchases, I believe the contract defines how many direct points are needed to qualify for benefits and thus they couldn't retroactively change it for direct purchases.
 
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crisi

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
I'd need to double-check, but at least for direct purchases, I believe the contract defines how many direct points are needed to qualify for benefits and thus they couldn't retroactively change it for direct purchases.
All benefits are subject to change. In the past, we know they have looked at tiering benefits - your Blue Card might get you into the Epcot Lounge in the future, but a minimum of XXX direct points might be needed for ticket discounts.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
I'd need to double-check, but at least for direct purchases, I believe the contract defines how many direct points are needed to qualify for benefits and thus they couldn't retroactively change it for direct purchases.
The terms and conditions only list the current minimum but there is nothing to legally require them to grandfather owners for benefits which is what the blue card offers.

Now, it makes little sense for them to change that. But, as mentioned, they can change what you are eligible for in terms of discounts.

That is why one should never buy with needing the perks to be there. It’s great when they are but Are not included in why we buy.
 

Lorana

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2001
The terms and conditions only list the current minimum but there is nothing to legally require them to grandfather owners for benefits which is what the blue card offers.

Now, it makes little sense for them to change that. But, as mentioned, they can change what you are eligible for in terms of discounts.

That is why one should never buy with needing the perks to be there. It’s great when they are but Are not included in why we buy.
The benefits they offer may change, certainly, or even be taken away, but the contract states the minimum number of direct points I need to own to receive “Membership Extras.” For direct owners, they can’t retroactively change that, as it’s part of the contract we sign. (And it also states that membership extras do not transfer with resale).
 

Lorana

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2001
The benefits they offer may change, certainly, or even be taken away, but the contract states the minimum number of direct points I need to own to receive “Membership Extras.” For direct owners, they can’t retroactively change that, as it’s part of the contract we sign. (And it also states that membership extras do not transfer with resale).
“By execution of the receipt set forth on the last page of this Membership Extras Acknowledgment and Disclosure Statement (the “Statement”), formerly known as Member Benefits Guide, the undersigned purchaser of a vacation ownership interest (an “Ownership Interest”) in a Disney Vacation Club® Resort (“DVC Resort”) acknowledges receipt of this Statement. This Statement serves as the acknowledgment and disclosure statement, as required pursuant to Section 721.075, Florida Statutes, for the incidental benefits program known as Membership Extras (the “Program”) provided by Disney Vacation Development Inc. (“DVD”) to purchasers, including the undersigned purchaser (“Purchasers”). This Statement contains information about the Program and the special benefits, offers and opportunities (the “Benefits”) made available through the Program by DVD to Purchasers who directly purchase an Ownership Interest from DVD and become members in Disney Vacation Club® (the “Club”). Any capitalized terms used in this Statement that are not defined in this Statement shall have the meaning provided in the Public Offering Statement provided to Purchaser in connection with the purchase of an Ownership Interest. “Member” as used in this Statement shall mean a Purchaser who has acquired an Ownership Interest directly from DVD and is a member of the Club in good standing pursuant to the terms and
provisions of the Club, including compliance with all Club and DVC Resort rules and regulations and current payment of all annual dues and purchase-money financing.

Membership Extras, such as vacation options in the Disney and Concierge Collections, certain discounts, offers, and special events are incidental benefits. These incidental benefits are subject to change or termination without notice, may require the payment of a fee and cannot be combined with any other offers or promotions. Membership Extras are also subject to availability and block-out dates may apply, including high periods of demand such as Christmas and New Year’s Day. To receive any Membership Extras, purchasers must present a valid Disney Vacation Club Membership Card along with a corresponding valid photo ID. Effective September 17, 2019, to obtain a Disney Vacation Club Membership Card, Members must accumulate a total of at least 100 Vacation Points purchased directly from DVD. Disney and Concierge Collections options are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who have not purchased an ownership interest directly from DVD will not have access to Membership Extras.

Use of any Benefits and participation in the Program is completely voluntary and payment of any fees or other costs associated with the Program or any Benefit is required only upon such use or participation. No costs of acquisition, operation, maintenance or repair of the Program or any Benefit are passed on to Purchasers as common expenses of a DVC Resort or the Club. None of the Benefits described in this Statement are a feature or component of a DVC Resort or an Ownership Interest, or of any rights or privileges which are appurtenant to that Ownership Interest. The continued availability of the Program or any Benefit or any or all of these special programs is not necessary in order for any accommodation or facility of a DVC Resort or the Club to be available for use by Purchasers in a manner identical in all material respects with the manner portrayed by any promotional material, advertising or the Public Offering Statement.

Neither the Program nor any Benefits obtained through the Program are assignable or transferable by a Purchaser and may not be resold. Purchasers who acquire an Ownership Interest from any person other than DVD are not eligible to participate in the Program or receive any Benefits. Purchasers should not purchase an Ownership Interest in reliance on the ability to transfer any incidental benefits with the resale of an Ownership Interest.

Certain of the Benefits described in this Statement are provided by independent entities not affiliated with DVD or any of its affiliates, which independent entities shall be solely responsible for all aspects of the applicable Benefit. Furthermore, the relationship of DVD or any of its affiliates to any third provider is governed by an agreement or arrangement which limits DVD’s or its affiliates' role to that of reservation booking facilitator. Accordingly, neither DVD nor any of its affiliates shall at any time be liable or responsible whatsoever for any loss, injury or damage arising from any Benefits provided by any third party, whether caused by acts of God, acts of governments or other authorities, wars, civil disturbances, hijacks, terrorism, theft, intentional, or negligent acts of any third party or any other cause whatsoever. In no event shall DVD or any of its affiliates be liable for any special or consequential damages arising out of or in connection with the use or operation of any Benefit.

If any Benefit, or any portion of a Benefit, becomes unavailable for any reason, DVD reserves the right to substitute a replacement Benefit of a type, quality, value and term reasonably similar to the unavailable Benefit. Reservations for accommodations at a DVC Resort shall be deemed conclusively to be reasonably similar to accommodations reserved at any other property through the Program.”
 

crisi

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
Since they define what a membership extra is and isn't, all they need to do is rename the park pass discount - you still get "membership extras" like the Epcot Lounge, but the park pass discount and any extras they want to segregate off get tagged into some sort of VIP category. As I said, I don't think they will, but I think they could, and I KNOW they have considered it because we've been surveyed on the idea.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
The benefits they offer may change, certainly, or even be taken away, but the contract states the minimum number of direct points I need to own to receive “Membership Extras.” For direct owners, they can’t retroactively change that, as it’s part of the contract we sign. (And it also states that membership extras do not transfer with resale).
Except it states those are subject to change. So there is nothing that states that can’t be changed. And things that are not material changes to the contract..incidental benefit changes would not be.. do not need owner approval.
 

Lorana

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2001
Except it states those are subject to change. So there is nothing that states that can’t be changed. And things that are not material changes to the contract..incidental benefit changes would not be.. do not need owner approval.
I think maybe we’re speaking past each other. I’m not saying they can change or take away incidental benefits. They absolutely can. What I’m saying is the contract states the number of points I need to be eligible for them; that is the part I do not believe they can change, since it’s stated in the contract and does not include a “we can change the threshold required at any time” clause.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
I think maybe we’re speaking past each other. I’m not saying they can change or take away incidental benefits. They absolutely can. What I’m saying is the contract states the number of points I need to be eligible for them; that is the part I do not believe they can change, since it’s stated in the contract and does not include a “we can change the threshold required at any time” clause.
Except it does say that. Any change to the POS that would not be considered a material change to the contract can be changed by DVD

Changing the terms of who is eligible for whatever benefits are there would not seem to be a material change to the POS since those are not guaranteed at all.

It is that clause of the POS that would allow them to update eligibility for perks IMO.
 

Brian Noble

Gratefully in Recovery
Joined
Mar 23, 2004
In the past, we know they have looked at tiering benefits
And it is likely that they will do that eventually. DVD has slowly adopted the practices of other timeshare developers in segregating resale and retail. If they continue on that path, this is what's next.

the contract states the minimum number of direct points I need to own to receive “Membership Extras.”
What I’m saying is the contract states the number of points I need to be eligible for them; that is the part I do not believe they can change,
You are right, you are entitled to whatever they call "Membership Extras." But, what if the discounted AP eligibility becomes a "Membership Double-Secret-Extra," for which more points are needed to qualify?

The perks are all built on sand. Folks can do what they want---it is their money. But, I would never use the perks to justify any particular purchase. If those were the make-or-break factor, I'd decline.
 

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